Nowadays, it's very rare for me to feel empathy, but...

[Gopi Passiflora]

...every time I remember that police officer's face as he was suffering in total agony while being crushed during the storming of the U.S. Capitol, it makes me want to cry.

I've been desensitized to the suffering and grief of others for the most part, but something about that pained face haunts me.

[Luna Bliss]

The trial was a bit much to handle today -- I had to switch it off at times. Did you know 2 of the Capitol police committed suicide? I can't imagine what the insurrection did to them.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

38 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

I've been desensitized to the suffering and grief of others for the most part

Sorry, Gopi. I don't believe you.

Everything I know about you from here says otherwise. Including this post.

So many people are angry about the insurrection, about the past four years in the US. I get that -- I am angry too.

But so much of it is also just so unbearably sad.

[Jordyn McGregor]

I'm more upset about the children who died during all the "peaceful protests" last year.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I'm more upset about the children who died during all the "peaceful protests" last year.

Are we rationing out our grief?

[Jordyn McGregor]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Are we rationing out our grief?

Not at all.  I'm just bemused at how double standards work.

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Did you know 2 of the Capitol police committed suicide? I can't imagine what the insurrection did to them.

The HUGE irony of this ^^^ from the incredibly vocal supporter of the "defund the police" movement.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Can we please not -- ANY of us -- turn this into another political mudslinging match?

Empathy is, by definition, about feeling what it is to be someone -- to understand them, if only imaginatively, "from the inside," as fellow humans.

Can we just talk instead about human connection? About the importance of feeling across divides, and perceiving each other as valuable and worth our love?

[Silent Mistwalker]

52 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I'm more upset about the children who died during all the "peaceful protests" last year.

I've been upset about the whole damned thing from the moment they started locking up children in cages after literally ripping them out of mothers arms. In fact, I've been upset about the whole damn thing since November 2016.

[Jordyn McGregor]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Can we please not -- ANY of us -- turn this into another political mudslinging match?

Empathy is, by definition, about feeling what it is to be someone -- to understand them, if only imaginatively, "from the inside," as fellow humans.

Can we just talk instead about human connection? About the importance of feeling across divides, and perceiving each other as valuable and worth our love?

Of course.  But until it is accepted that ALL lives matter, I do not see this happening.

I shall not be returning to this thread as I do see it turning into a political mudslinging match, and accept it will probably be all my fault for starting it.  I apologise in advance and in absence.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

something about that pained face haunts me

Gopi, I have a question for you.

Is there a way in which that pain maybe makes you a better human being? A more caring and ethical one? Or is it a reflection of who you already are?

Or, alternately, is empathy, as some have suggested, uncritical, dulling our ability to judge right from wrong because we are too busy "understanding" everything from the perspective of others to be able to stand aside and judge?

[Gopi Passiflora]

35 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Gopi, I have a question for you.

Is there a way in which that pain maybe makes you a better human being? A more caring and ethical one? Or is it a reflection of who you already are?

Or, alternately, is empathy, as some have suggested, uncritical, dulling our ability to judge right from wrong because we are too busy "understanding" everything from the perspective of others to be able to stand aside and judge?

I'm sorry, I might not fully understand your question, but I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

I don't know if the pain he felt will make me a better human being. I did feel the man's suffering, but I don't know if I can be better because of that. I might forget the feelings that I felt soon like it never happened. I don't know what I can learn from this event. I mean, sure I can say in response to your question "that I learned it's bad to cause harm to others" but I already know that because it's against the law. The problem is, I guess, whether I actually not want to harm other beings from an emotional, altrustic standpoint and not just because of an innate fear of repercussions.

I don't know if the pain will make me more caring. Like I said before, I struggle to care about many things.

I know that I will at least try to be more ethical, but like I said before it could be because I only have ethics because of a fear of punishment.

I think empathy can coexist with a sense of judgement. I also think it's good to understand what others are thinking  - at least to satisify my curiosity about psychology and philosophy. It helps me to understand people.

Sorry if my answers are unclear or not what you're looking for.

Overall, I think what I'm getting at is that it's just hard to understand my emotions and if they are truly genuine or not.

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

 

Overall, I think what I'm getting at is that it's just hard to understand my emotions and if they are truly genuine or not.

I think my emotions are always genuine and often misguided.

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I think my emotions are always genuine and often misguided.

See!? House. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

I'm sorry, I might not fully understand your question, but I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

I don't know if the pain he felt will make me a better human being. I did feel the man's suffering, but I don't know if I can be better because of that. I might forget the feelings that I felt soon like it never happened. I don't know what I can learn from this event. I mean, sure I can say in response to your question "that I learned it's bad to cause harm to others" but I already know that because it's against the law. The problem is, I guess, whether I actually not want to harm other beings from an emotional, altrustic standpoint and not just because of an innate fear of repercussions.

I don't know if the pain will make me more caring. Like I said before, I struggle to care about many things.

I know that I will at least try to be more ethical, but like I said before it could be because I only have ethics because of a fear of punishment.

Pretty good answer, I think.

It's not his pain that might, maybe, perhaps, make you a better person, but your own. Or maybe the pain you feel watching that horrific scene is just proof that you are already a good person.

I think probably both.

And that you felt that pain so intensely makes me pretty certain (and after all, I'm the one who matters, right?) that it's not merely fear of repercussions that drives you, morally and ethically. I might, of course, be wrong about this, but if you had the opportunity to hurt someone, I'm pretty sure that it would be your imagining of the effects of that hurt, more than fear of punishment, that would prevent you. But, again -- we're all human, so probably both play a role.

24 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

I think empathy can coexist with a sense of judgement. I also think it's good to understand what others are thinking  - at least to satisify my curiosity about psychology and philosophy. It helps me to understand people.

Yeah, I agree. I've seen people hurt who were not particularly "good people," or who brought harm upon themselves through their own possibly malevolent actions. It's still possible to feel for them, even while remaining aware of the fact that they were doing wrong. I feel that way, for instance, about that poor woman who was shot during the attack upon the Capitol Building. What she was doing was objectively wrong and harmful -- but oh, how very very sad. I am terribly sorry for her, even while judging her for actions that endangered others.

28 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Overall, I think what I'm getting at is that it's just hard to understand my emotions and if they are truly genuine or not.

I'm with Maddy on this one. You can trust your emotions to be genuine -- which doesn't necessarily mean that they justified. Asking ourselves these questions, as you do here, is important precisely because, as Maddy says, they are genuine, and yet can also be misguided. It's a work in progress for all of us.

[Rolig Loon]

25 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Overall, I think what I'm getting at is that it's just hard to understand my emotions and if they are truly genuine or not.

You are not alone, Gopi. If you are at all sensitive to people and events, you are likely to have conflicting emotions all the time. It's a challenge to know how to respond. Perhaps a first step is to ask how many of the things that stir your emotions are things that you have any control over.  It's easy to be overwhelmed by a flood of events and then find yourself awash in doubts and frozen by uncertainty, even when your emotions are "genuine".  Try focusing your attention first on those people and circumstances closest to you.

[Bree Giffen]

Every evening for at least a month I watched unfiltered live streams of the BLM inspired riots. Violence is violence whether it comes from left or right and I condemn it all. Some of you only condemn one side and I find that troubling. 

[FairreLilette]

11 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Every evening for at least a month I watched unfiltered live streams of the BLM inspired riots. Violence is violence whether it comes from left or right and I condemn it all. Some of you only condemn one side and I find that troubling. 

All of it is troubling to me, Bree.  2020 was one heck of a year and I've said to others it was the worst year of my life.  We are emotional and sensitive creatures.  Even many animals are emotional and sensitive creatures.  But, with all the super-charged emotional and dangerous events it's better to talk about your feelings than not, imo.  Talking, thinking and expressing how we feel does helps us gets through life.   It is like Scylla said "a process".  It's a process dealing with all of it.  

Edited February 11, 2021 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

3 hours ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

I've been desensitized to the suffering and grief of others for the most part

Sorry, Gopi. I don't believe you.

Everything I know about you from here says otherwise. Including this post.

 

Which is why I saw it as a post to stir up more angst here on the forum, to get people to squabble more.  Nothing like posting about controversial and emotional topics to get everyone attacking again.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

Which is why I saw it as a post to stir up more angst here on the forum, to get people to squabble more.  Nothing like posting about controversial and emotional topics to get everyone attacking again.

 

That might be an effect . . . but I don't think that's the OP's style, generally.

[Paul Hexem]

This will not end well.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

  It's a process dealing with all of it.  

Yes .. but... where it belongs. And that's not the Second Life forums, but in RL .. in a group of real friend or with a therapist, not with activists who supported causing it or white knights here.

Keeping politics out is impossible, it's the main engine behind this. Better close it before it totally derails again, just a matter of time.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Love Zhaoying]

Oooh, compassion! Not so weird.

[FairreLilette]

6 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Yes .. but... where it belongs. And that's not the Second Life forums, but in RL .. in a group of real friend or with a therapist, not with activists who supported causing it or white knights here.

Keeping politics out is impossible, it's the main engine behind this. Better close it before it totally derails again, just a matter of time.

All of "this", all these happenings that occurred in 2020 and carrying over into 2021, has a lot to do with a virus too which is not a political thing.  How this has all become political is kind of surreal to me because all I know is all these "stressful" events that occurred in 2020 and now 2021 has given me an ulcer.  I fear I will have some phobias from all of it too.  My sisters and I would like to go to out to eat after we are all vaccinated and then I started feeling uneasy about it - like I have a fear of restaurants now.  If my sisters and I could eat outside, I think I'd feel better about going into a restaurant.   Many of you are free.  California has been in lockdown since November.  So I have phobias now.  I don't mind sharing on a message board how all this has effected me and it's not because of politics.  Right now with the impeachment, it's not a whole party here, it's Trump.  I think Trump was unfit for office.  The last thing I read in the news before Trump was silenced on social media was Trump saying "I'm not feeling well".  I think this thread won't last long either but I do agree with you the more you can talk to those close to you, the better.

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I'm just bemused at how double standards work.

13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Did you know 2 of the Capitol police committed suicide? I can't imagine what the insurrection did to them.

The HUGE irony of this ^^^ from the incredibly vocal supporter of the "defund the police" movement.

I have a very deep empathy for people who go through such a horrific event that their world is torn apart, so much so that they exist in a trauma state (PTSD) and are unable to cope anymore, as what appears to have happened with the two Capitol policemen who committed suicide. I have this empathy because I was not just abused as a child, but tortured, and I know what it's like to be haunted by horrific events from the past.

I keep wondering which aspects of the event was too much for them to cope with -- was it seeing a fellow police officer die along with many others injured during the insurrection, and the fact they could not save the one who died, causing massive feelings of guilt and the resultant feelings of being 'bad'? Was it the feelings of helplessness while being overwhelmed by hostile forces more terror than they could cope with, creating a helplessness and despondency even after the event (compounded by the fact that these Trump supporters were supposed to be on their side, as it was discovered the officer that died was a Trump supporter). I mean, it's bad enough to be attacked by hostile people, shaking your faith in life itself -- but to be attacked by those who were supposed to be your friends is a double whammy and does a super mind-fork, psychologically, causing a kind of double confusion that is difficult to sort out.

Why you think I would not have empathy for these Capitol officers because I believe the police department needs to be reformed due to a few bad apples within it, as well as appropriate funding directed to the strengthening of communities so that less policing is even needed, is beyond me.

[Luna Bliss]

12 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

12 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Can we please not -- ANY of us -- turn this into another political mudslinging match?

Of course.  But until it is accepted that ALL lives matter, I do not see this happening.

For the longest time we've said only White lives matter (through our laws and treatment of Blacks in the U.S.), or at the very least Black lives do not matter as much as White lives do.
So now we are saying that Black Lives Matter until it is known, through attitude and action, that Black lives matter as much as the White ones do.
It is then, when society does indeed believe Black Lives Matter as much as White ones do, that there will be no need to say Black Lives Matter -- because All Lives will be seen as mattering at that point.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Luna Bliss