JOBS and INCOME - What do they pay on average and what do you make?

[Salt Peppermint]

but to come back to the org topic.. I still would love to know what are the skills you are bringing to SL @riverjoy? that would be a good help for answers..

[Maryanne Solo]

19 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It's scary to consider starting a business right now with the world economies so fragile, a possible collapse of the dollar, a shift to silver and gold.

First established in 2016, I've just been sitting waiting, expanding my tiny range as I can afford to do so. 
I only ever wanted to create one RL business and this is it. I have taught myself everything I need to know from start to finish. 
I'm happy to sell by word of mouth and slowly gear production up vs sales.
I haven't even really advertised anything yet lol.

Correct, the only thing that will stop me is a global financial collapse. 
But I'm already waaaay ahead on precious metals.
Silver alone went up by 20% in the last 6 months, (that's my wholesale price too).

To @riverjoy - I'm pretty sure I made the first triple transparency swimwear? which happened to be
Australian Native Wildflower themed. 😍🥰
I'm quite prepared to stand corrected on that claim but I made it because none seemed to be available at the time.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Maryanne Solo

[Tarani Tempest]

9 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't know what you mean exactly...most clothes ARE just a tinter but they are preset.  The only time it changes to an actual texture rather than a tinter is for a pattern.  The shadows are baked into the AO for the white one and then the rest are just tinted as per my understanding and what I was told.   You can have baked in shadows and light in the white one that has the AO and UV on it while tinting the rest.  Plus, I use the 100's of colors HUDS for my items...it doesn't ruin anything.   These 100's of colors HUDS are awesome...you can literally have every color imaginable, nothing ruined.  It could be your lighting is different than my lighting or other's lighting.  

This is a big nope.  Actual tinting in SL is not great, it tints the entire face.  This means you lose a ton of detail.  As white highlights get full on tint and dark areas get darker.   Clothes with HUDs use a unique texture for each one , color or pattern makes no difference. Some do also offer a added color tinter, many hairs have begun to add them as well.  But the orig preset choices are all unique textures , and will always look best before a tint is added.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

But the orig preset choices are all unique textures , and will always look best before a tint is added.

This is why fatpacks should ALWAYS be modifiable and come with a pack of texture assets, so we can actually match them to outfits using Gimp (or Photoshop, or whatever) tools. Conceptually it's pretty simple in HSL space: swap one narrow range of hues with another, optionally repeat for multicolor patterns, then tweak overall saturation and lightness.

Worst case, though, they should at least include those horrid tinting scripts, and that's only for non-original mesh, like templates, where mod permission is forbidden by the license. A creator of original mesh will always make it modifiable unless they're sure all their customers are idiots.

[FairreLilette]

5 hours ago, Salt Peppermint said:

 

not they are not just tints. Look I show you what the difference it. First snapshot is my actual made black texture, second one is used a white texture whit all lights and shadows and then tinted inworld to black. same goes for colour. third is the actual purple I made, second one is tinted into purple inwolrd using the same base texture. it is really not the same and loses all the details. all of these are shot with exact same graphic settings, same materials, same wind light. There is a lot of work going into making proper colours. it is not as easy to just slap a tint onto it, maybe it works for something that is very flat and sometimes you can adjust with a tint to make it a tiny bit darker. But it's certainly not a good solution to have that as the actual colour option imho. 

1. actual black: https://gyazo.com/f1c6c8845b53a6c64677f3cf9bd1b0eb

2. tinted black: https://gyazo.com/07b39a903eb689838c29f43f1a597aa6

3. actual purple https://gyazo.com/bc69368be7118fb9c04af227ea147747

4.tinted purple https://gyazo.com/eafa460a93c11090300a427ef5403f35

 

also sorry for getting off topic... I'll leave it there

That's a super extreme example.  Most clothes don't need that latex detailing.  The vast majority of clothing don't.  I use the 100's of colors HUDS for my items, there is a loss of nothing except on the super, super darkest colors but there isn't always light in super dark colors.  I've bought shoes that are 350 lindens apiece per color and I know darn well they are just tinted as the shoes are flat looking no matter what color they are so I don't buy those shoes anymore.  And why are they flat...they did nothing to the original white texture obviously.  Tinters are all over SL, even in the best clothing.  Latex, hair is something else entirely.   Did you even try the demos of any of my stuff to see?  Try the Legacy item demos, they don't look flat.  It's amazing.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

57 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is why fatpacks should ALWAYS be modifiable and come with a pack of texture assets, so we can actually match them to outfits using Gimp (or Photoshop, or whatever) tools. Conceptually it's pretty simple in HSL space: swap one narrow range of hues with another, optionally repeat for multicolor patterns, then tweak overall saturation and lightness.

Worst case, though, they should at least include those horrid tinting scripts, and that's only for non-original mesh, like templates, where mod permission is forbidden by the license. A creator of original mesh will always make it modifiable unless they're sure all their customers are idiots.

Changing a textures color in Photoshop is a bear of a chore.  Textures don't change colors easily in Photoshop.  The saturation usually goes too high when trying to change a color in PS, so then you need to take the saturation down and it often looks washed out.  It's a lot of work to make a color change look good in PS.  

I think an added tinter for clothes could help as the colors of SL in general are lacking a chance to enjoy color.  Most clothes I don't buy because the color choices are awful, just awful.  I mostly buy white, black, gray.  I've been an oil painter, color is very important and there are so many colors to enjoy in this world.  I love making a good mauve, or heathered purple, and the 100's of colors HUD can give people that.  I hate standard purple for one example, and then the blues, greens, pinks, yellows most offer are awful.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

this is a big nope.  Actual tinting in SL is not great, it tints the entire face. 

No, you can tint separate parts of the faces with buttons and setting which object parts you want tinted what color.  

And, I wasn't taking about hair as per the rest of your post nor furniture even, just clothes.  

[Tarani Tempest]

41 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Changing a textures color in Photoshop is a bear of a chore.  Textures don't change colors easily in Photoshop. 

Changing texture colors in PS is what PS does beautifully.  There are a handful of different ways of doing this as well.  You change the Hue w/out touching any of the highlights or darker areas...just one example. There are so many amazing tricks and filters, that its basically trivial at this point.

32 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

No, you can tint separate parts of the faces with buttons and setting which object parts you want tinted what color.  

And, I wasn't taking about hair as per the rest of your post nor furniture even, just clothes.  

One face...can hold one texture. An object can be made with many faces and each may have their own texture.  You can select the face, but that in no way changes how the tinting built into SL behaves.  It ignores all light values. Its works OK for subtle tinting, and fixing a color that may be slightly off. It is still never ever as good as the original done in PS.

Most creators worth their salt, are using all original texture for each color or print selection on a HUD.  Some may offer a tint HUD as well... like many hairs.  And I was only using hair as an example.

[Tarani Tempest]

And I realize this has gotten off topic.  Sorry about that folks.

[FairreLilette]

4 minutes ago, Tarani Tempest said:

You change the Hue w/out touching any of the highlights or darker areas...just one example. There are so many amazing tricks and filters, that its basically trivial at this point.

43 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I work with PS I know how the HUE, SATURATION, etc. and etc. and etc. work.  It is a bear to change a texture color in PS with just the HUE as the sat goes too high most of the time.  Then, a de-sat is needed and a color filter added will give it a good color while still adjusting hue but it's still a long time to achieve a good color on the texture.  

I'm not here to argue about how to use PS.  lol

But, most people in SL if they would tell you honestly, they want control of the colors and/or they don't like most of the colors creator's are choosing.  It's just a fact, and if I had the money I'd start a business with an ALL COLORS Huds products.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Tarani Tempest]

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I work with PS I know how the HUE, SATURATION, etc. and etc. and etc. work.  It is a bear to change a texture color in PS with just the HUE as the sat goes too high most of the time.  Then, a de-sat is needed and a color filter added will give it a good color while still adjusting hue but it's still a long time to achieve a good color on the texture.  

 

I wholeheartedly disagree.  

[Marianne Little]

22 minutes ago, Tarani Tempest said:

And I realize this has gotten off topic.  Sorry about that folks.

Oh, I don't think he will be back. He sent me a personal message to compliment me and asked if I looked like my avatar in RL. After I told him I did not, in age or appearance, he has not posted here anymore. 🤣

I must have scared him away from his dream about earning big money in a virtual world where we look like 20 something models in RL too.

Sorry if I offend you who actually are 20 something models.

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Oh, I don't think he will be back. He sent me a personal message to compliment me and asked if I looked like my avatar in RL. After I told him I did not, in age or appearance, he has not posted here anymore. 🤣

I must have scared him away from his dream about earning big money in a virtual world where we look like 20 something models in RL too.

Sorry if I offend you who actually are 20 something models.

It wasn't entirely off topic as I was suggesting a product that I believe is very much needed in SL and I believe would do well.  Just changing a hue does not a good color make.  I know, I've been an oil painter who mixed her own colors.  Plus I work in PS, just changing a hue does not a good color make at all.  

As far as if the OP left...I don't know... but there is a thread of someone asking for advice on a newcomer friendly club because they just bought a region.  The thread may have been moved to the WANTED section as I haven't looked at the threads this morning yet.  I was thinking it's this OP who started the other thread and just bought a region though.  All I have to say about the OP buying a region, is good for them because they are following their dream and if they have the spare cash it's best to give it a whirl.   

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Drake1 Nightfire]

28 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I work with PS I know how the HUE, SATURATION, etc. and etc. and etc. work.  It is a bear to change a texture color in PS with just the HUE as the sat goes too high most of the time.  Then, a de-sat is needed and a color filter added will give it a good color while still adjusting hue but it's still a long time to achieve a good color on the texture.  

I'm not here to argue about how to use PS.  lol

But, most people in SL if they would tell you honestly, they want control of the colors and/or they don't like most of the colors creator's are choosing.  It's just a fact, and if I had the money I'd start a business with an ALL COLORS Huds products.  

Have you tried asking a merchant for specific colors? What you think is a hideous color may be someone elses perfect shade. Talk about pompous.. "I dont find that color preferable at all. Therefore no one will."

[Caroline Takeda]

On 10/26/2020 at 2:39 PM, riverjoy said:

My goal is to make L$500k per week

 

Forget about jobs in that case.
There is NO job in Second Life which will get you that much.

There is only one way to make that kind of money:
Found a business in SL, which requires skills and an investment.

Check out how other SL business owners work.
Look at what branches they operate in, what products they create and evaluate if you are able to compete with them:

Some profitable but highly competitive SL branches:

- Real estate
- Fashion
- Furniture
- Media

When you browse through marketplace you will find a couple of merchants being very successful. Have a look at those: Scandalize, Maitreya, Slink, Chung Estates, Dutchie, Rawage and others. This gets you an idea what is required and how to market your business.
 

Spoiler: It is a lot of work!

Those make even more than 500k a week.

Bear in mind that making money in sl is not the rule but exception for a few skilled and hard working few. From the 600 k monthly active users only about 5000 are cash positive.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Caroline Takeda

[Tarani Tempest]

14 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Sorry if I offend you who actually are 20 something models.

My inner 20 something model is not offended

[FairreLilette]

25 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Have you tried asking a merchant for specific colors? What you think is a hideous color may be someone elses perfect shade. Talk about pompous.. "I dont find that color preferable at all. Therefore no one will."

If I wanted to make an ALL COLORS Hud products, that is not pompous because it gives the person their own personal options such as each to their own - that's what all colors huds do - leave it up to a personal choice and is reverse pompous I'd say.  

As to ask a merchant for specific colors?  I could ask and see as it never hurts to ask.  There are so many things I like but one company offers so little colors my color choice is white as I don't like any of the colors other than white and this happens a lot and I'm not the only one who says colors are lacking in SL.  Color is something to be enjoyed, embraced...it's a beautiful part of life.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

If I wanted to make an ALL COLORS Hud products, that is not pompous because it gives the person their own personal options such as each to their own - that's what all colors huds do - leave it up to a personal choice and is reverse pompous I'd say.  

As to ask a merchant for specific colors?  I could ask and see as it never hurts to ask.  There are so many things I like but one company offers so little colors my color choice is white as I don't like any of the colors other than white.  

Personally, the only thing I'd like to be able to tint is shoes.  Instead of trying to find the exact shade to match an outfit, I'd love to just be able to tweak the existing colors.  There are so many shades of one color that it's a nightmare trying to find the right one.  I love wearing yellow but most yellow shoes are just too dang yellow.  I'd love to be able to tone it down a bit.  Red is another color that's hard to match.  As they're a smaller item and not usually looked at closely, who cares if you lose a bit of the shading.  I'd rather have them match color-wise.

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I love wearing yellow but most yellow shoes are just too dang yellow

Yeah, this ^^^^  Toooooooo dang yellow, too dang weird green, too dang orange...there are so many colors to enjoy in life.  Most colors are far too vibrant though, I'd say.  I feel like the colors are "screaming".  It's just too much.  

But, again, as far as the OP, I think...if you have the extra cash and want to start a business in SL, why not?  They should.  It's a heck of a lot of work though and advertising and patience are key.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Nalates Urriah]

Wow... Everyone has an opinion... few facts. The problem here is the majority of those opinions are from those not making any serious money in SL and lack any access to actual information about SL. Only a couple here are making moderate money. There is a lot of chaff to be sorted from the grain... @riverjoy 

NWN posted in 2017 that SL users were taking US$60 million per year out of the game. (Ref) There is advice for RL investors that explains the SL economy. See: Second Life Economy. There are a number of articles that deal with protecting Intellectual Property rights in SL, which if you make anything that is successful will become a major concern.

$60,000,000/600,000 users = $100/user... I make about that much per year from the marketplace. Pays for my annual Prime account. I don't want to work that hard in SL. I make way way more per hour in RL. But, a huge number of people pour cash into SL. So some are taking healthy incomes from SL. We have no idea how many. So the idea 100s make big money... that is a guess or opinion with little to no basis.

My per hour rate in SL is pitifully low. I think the only item I have that comes close to paying me a decent RL return is my Model Shape Tool. It has taken years to get there. But, if I made something everyone had to have... 

Any business that is going to invest money in a project studies it FIRST. You need to know and understand SL; the tech, the economy, the people... There are a number of things people need to make their SL better or more fun. There are a number of tedious tasks people would like to eliminate. I make stuff I want that helps ME. So, I don't bother with studies or much planning. If you are serious about making a good RL income from SL you WILL need to do your home work. You've gotten some interesting ideas in this thread.

I do the things I find fun. If one of those starts to pay well... I'll do more of it.

I have no doubt that anyone that thinks and works hard can build a RL income based in SL. However a number of fields are fragile and high risk. One of the mesh-head makers just went through a DMCA lawsuit. I suspect that had a huge financial and emotional impact. So, there is a huge amount to consider.

Asking for serious financial advice in the forum, IMO, is a noobs mistake... most in SL don't even understand the Lindex currency exchange. Track down those you suspect are making serous money in SL and talk with them.

[Charlotte Bartlett]

1 hour ago, Caroline Takeda said:

Forget about jobs in that case.
There is NO job in Second Life which will get you that much.

There is only one way to make that kind of money:
Found a business in SL, which requires skills and an investment.

Check out how other SL business owners work.
Look at what branches they operate in, what products they create and evaluate if you are able to compete with them:

Some profitable but highly competitive SL branches:

- Real estate
- Fashion
- Furniture
- Media

When you browse through marketplace you will find a couple of merchants being very successful. Have a look at those: Scandalize, Maitreya, Slink, Chung Estates, Dutchie, Rawage and others. This gets you an idea what is required and how to market your business.
 

Spoiler: It is a lot of work!

Those make even more than 500k a week.

Bear in mind that making money in sl is not the rule but exception for a few skilled and hard working few. From the 600 k monthly active users only about 5000 are cash positive.

 

 

Where are you getting your metrics from....:specifically.

[Salt Peppermint]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I work with PS I know how the HUE, SATURATION, etc. and etc. and etc. work.  It is a bear to change a texture color in PS with just the HUE as the sat goes too high most of the time.  Then, a de-sat is needed and a color filter added will give it a good color while still adjusting hue but it's still a long time to achieve a good color on the texture.  

I'm not here to argue about how to use PS.  lol

But, most people in SL if they would tell you honestly, they want control of the colors and/or they don't like most of the colors creator's are choosing.  It's just a fact, and if I had the money I'd start a business with an ALL COLORS Huds products.  

you actually do not need money to start a business in SL.. to be back to the original topic. If you know how to do all this and you are sure there are many customers are willing to pay for it, that's exactly what you should do! I can only support that

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Salt Peppermint said:

you actually do not need money to start a business in SL.. to be back to the original topic. If you know how to do all this and you are sure there are many customers are willing to pay for it, that's exactly what you should do! I can only support that

I'm actually all for someone making a ton of money in SL.  However, the OP said this.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 12:56 PM, riverjoy said:

 

Thanks for your response.

Most people didn't read the first sentence as i asked VARIOUS jobs AND incomes.

I didn't say what 1 job as i know that is an impossibility.

So i know a combination of owning homes, clubs, doing escort jobs, hunting lodges etc will eventually accumulate.

 

 

I may be wrong but even a combination of ALL those jobs will not bring in anywhere near 500,000L a week.  I don't care how anyone can even think that's possible.  As numerous people who do work in SL have posted, they make enough to cover expenses with maybe a little bit more.  I'd really love to see the percentage of creators in SL who pull in something close to that.  It has to be less than 10% of creators.  Escorts?  nope  Club owners?  Nah  Rental companies?  Only the few bigger ones and that's after years and a huge investment.  

 

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, Salt Peppermint said:

you actually do not need money to start a business in SL.. to be back to the original topic. If you know how to do all this and you are sure there are many customers are willing to pay for it, that's exactly what you should do! I can only support that

No, I'd only perhaps like to be on a team doing my idea as what I am is a designer in real life.  What a designer is is kind of like this example:  Alright everyone is given a gray plate (a dish to eat off of), now what are you going to design on that plate to make it sell?  A designer puts the design on the plate but they don't make the plate and they aren't involved in the actual retail sales end of it nor photographer nor a myriad of other hats needed to have a business in SL.  

I do have a little business in SL and there are so many hats to wear in SL.  It's designer, it's texture artist, it's photographer, it's colorist, it's marketeer, it's soooooooo much stuff.  Maybe perhaps one day be on a team but designing is all I'd prefer to do, and the rest of the hats go to others.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Charlotte Bartlett]

19 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Wow... Everyone has an opinion... few facts. The problem here is the majority of those opinions are from those not making any serious money in SL and lack any access to actual information about SL. Only a couple here are making moderate money. There is a lot of chaff to be sorted from the grain... @riverjoy 

NWN posted in 2017 that SL users were taking US$60 million per year out of the game. (Ref) There is advice for RL investors that explains the SL economy. See: Second Life Economy. There are a number of articles that deal with protecting Intellectual Property rights in SL, which if you make anything that is successful will become a major concern.

$60,000,000/600,000 users = $100/user... I make about that much per year from the marketplace. Pays for my annual Prime account. I don't want to work that hard in SL. I make way way more per hour in RL. But, a huge number of people pour cash into SL. So some are taking healthy incomes from SL. We have no idea how many. So the idea 100s make big money... that is a guess or opinion with little to no basis.

My per hour rate in SL is pitifully low. I think the only item I have that comes close to paying me a decent RL return is my Model Shape Tool. It has taken years to get there. But, if I made something everyone had to have... 

Any business that is going to invest money in a project studies it FIRST. You need to know and understand SL; the tech, the economy, the people... There are a number of things people need to make their SL better or more fun. There are a number of tedious tasks people would like to eliminate. I make stuff I want that helps ME. So, I don't bother with studies or much planning. If you are serious about making a good RL income from SL you WILL need to do your home work. You've gotten some interesting ideas in this thread.

I do the things I find fun. If one of those starts to pay well... I'll do more of it.

I have no doubt that anyone that thinks and works hard can build a RL income based in SL. However a number of fields are fragile and high risk. One of the mesh-head makers just went through a DMCA lawsuit. I suspect that had a huge financial and emotional impact. So, there is a huge amount to consider.

Asking for serious financial advice in the forum, IMO, is a noobs mistake... most in SL don't even understand the Lindex currency exchange. Track down those you suspect are making serous money in SL and talk with them.

Not sure who is the wheat and chaff... 

We ran a Lindex education “effort” over on Facebook start of 2020.  In a closed group of a few hundred content creators, event organizers, land barons etc we started a push to help maximize returns. It was amazing how many did not know the basics of limit sells, how to time selling, why selling one point off the market was losing them a minimum of 200 dollars per annum and so forth. 

There are some materials still around for it that get shared.  The essence of this is to run a Second Life business needs a mix of financial skill as well as all the creative ones (if a content creator).  

The point of me mentioning this is I offered to LL to give them the materials and to have it up on a blog post they were hoping to have up on Lindex education.  Sadly they never got the blog up and running.  
 

With a lack of specific materials (not on some third party blog that new users likely won’t discover initially) where else should they start a conversation?  This particular thread was not the right opener but it’s also not the right approach to belittle new joiners to SL (that’s not directed at you, it’s general).

Also please god do not link to Investopedia they still haven’t corrected their misunderstanding on what a virtual convertible currency is and have used appalling sources generally on SL topics. If you follow their info you would end up in hot water with the IRS eventually.