Major differences of available body types

[NiranV Dean]

56 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

We don't blame the people who buy what's available. We blame the creators second and LL first, for enabling creators to bring us into this situation we're in. The best solution we have is a reforming of the Complexity calculation (called project ARCTAN in the past, if that's still around), which should cause most complexity numbers to shoot up because the vast majority of SL content exploits Complexity, knowingly or not. Once LL gives people a new framework to work within, it'll naturally guide most people to better practices the same way as up until now the "best practice" has been exploits.

It's still around and it's not going to help. If what Oz said is true, its NOT going to punish bad optimization, we'll get the same again just different.

 

21 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Cool, so maybe someone can make human feet for the body too. But I think there would not be many buyers. The female body market is so filled up and not many cares about triangles.

Someone could, yes. If the regalia is as open as other furry content you or anyone can just go grab the Blender file and make some.

 

1 hour ago, RowanMinx said:

The thing is, regardless of who is right or wrong, who has more triangles, people will buy whichever body they like and whichever body they can easily clothe.  We can shout all we'd like about it but unless I, myself, can create something better, I'm forced to choose what's available.  Sure, we can note card creators about our concerns.  Some might listen and most will not.  

As a human (and as far as I'm aware, we ALL are underneath), we really can't run around naked all the time and bald.  

 

I'm not bald. There's a big difference between bald and simply having no hair. Crystals are my hair, in fact they are a complete mane. Even horns. Just because one of my avatars doesn't have hair doesn't mean all of them have. I've worn hair for 10 years on all my avatars. I even wear the dreaded lights on one. (Not facelights)

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by NiranV Dean

[Sassy Kenin]

5 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

The thing is, regardless of who is right or wrong, who has more triangles, people will buy whichever body they like and whichever body they can easily clothe.  We can shout all we'd like about it but unless I, myself, can create something better, I'm forced to choose what's available.  Sure, we can note card creators about our concerns.  Some might listen and most will not.  

As a human (and as far as I'm aware, we ALL are underneath), we really can't run around naked all the time and bald.  

 

Sorry should not read and post while driving*

Edited November 1, 2020 by Sassy Kenin
Blind reply

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

Shouldn't that all been aimed at thr other two. that really has nothing to do with the question asked them.

I was basically agreeing with you and hoping the other two.would respond.  Sorry for any confusion.

[Pussycat Catnap]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

What I don't understand with the Regalia body, is: It is only paws. I get it, humans are not worthy. But what do furries who like Regalia do if they want different feet, like bird feet, hooves, dragon feet etc.?

I mean; it is a big and versatile group of people, and all they get is paws? Does this not contradict "High modability"?

It's mod. In the furry world everything is always mod.

There's about a gazillion kits out there to swap pieces in or out.

2 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

Infact the average human user i'd describe as expecting the following: Compatibility with all of the most used human clothing and body parts (e.g mix and match with other human parts, texture compatibility and clothing compatibility), multiple scripted HUDs for basically editing everything possible (e.g adding textures, changing features like glossiness, changing alpha cuts etc etc), no mod, highly detailed (as in falsely highly polygonized otherwise its "bad"), ready-to-go baked-into-mesh shapes...

The sad thing is, ALL of that can be done with a low triangle count and well optimized scripts.

Except for the parts of your quote that I put a strikethrough - because those are the things they expect that are actually bad... and don't need to be there...

Human AV users are getting ripped off by developers that don't understand optimizing content. 'BOM' was basically LLs saying "OMG WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU NOOBS, here, please at least do this..." It was their attempt to at least shave a few million polygons off... We've still got a few million more than needed... BOM is like putting a bandaid on a portable nuke... It's better than just leaving the nuke in the living room, but... you've still got a nuke in the living room...

 

[Sassy Kenin]

3 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I was basically agreeing with you and hoping the other two.would respond.  Sorry for any confusion.

Thank 😘Sorry I must of misread that as well 🥰

They both seem to forget linden lab is not even half the size it once was in terms developers..LL addresses almost all of it on " meet the lindens: on YouTube 

[Nalates Urriah]

16 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

But I wonder if the shoulders are a problem for the customer mass, or is it a few on the forum that brings it up?

 

That is one we'll probably never have an answer for. I suspect it is more of a thing for people using the forum. Maitreya is popular and designers design for Maitreya which suggests they sell lots.

When I was considering buying Maitreya and looking for people's opinions it was a post in the forum that got me looking at the "flaws" in Maitreya. Until then I hadn't noticed the soda straw shoulders and high armpits. Now I see it all the time. So I suspect most people just don't notice it... no mass consumer thing.

[Cinos Field]

Sure, one might say, you can't run around naked for maximum optimization. Sure, that's entirely true. But, to illustrate the point Niran & Pussycat were making... my avatar, depicted below - fully dressed and with entirely too much jewelry, is still <500k triangles all in all - which is about one naked belleza body with no head, or half a legacy body, again with no head.

Out of the human bodies, though, there is an option that's just about as good! Slink is on equal footing with most furry creators when it comes to sensible and good-looking optimized bodies. Even Maitreya isn't all that bad now that the onion layers are optional. So you can be relatively low-lag as a human, too.

 

 

[Sassy Kenin]

Second Life software has it's limits, It's also up to the user to meet or exceed the recommended hardware/internet connections requirements...LL also gives you tools to filter others and objects and whole areas to optimize your experience if you choose to use them.

Personally I never experience lag even in a crowded full sim.. this might be due to me not cheapen out on my internet or thinking using the free WiFi at taco bell is all I need.

[NiranV Dean]

1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

Sure, one might say, you can't run around naked for maximum optimization. Sure, that's entirely true. But, to illustrate the point Niran & Pussycat were making... my avatar, depicted below - fully dressed and with entirely too much jewelry, is still <500k triangles all in all - which is about one naked belleza body with no head, or half a legacy body, again with no head.

Out of the human bodies, though, there is an option that's just about as good! Slink is on equal footing with most furry creators when it comes to sensible and good-looking optimized bodies. Even Maitreya isn't all that bad now that the onion layers are optional. So you can be relatively low-lag as a human, too.

 

 

What i meant was actually that the statement "we can't run around naked" or "you're always naked" is neither an excuse for being overly complex nor is that what's really happening. I can be clothed and still have far below 100k triangles and far less memory usage than probably anyone here that isn't using one of those funky alien or default avatars. What i'm trying to say is that i chose to be naked for style reasons, not because of optimization, i've went a great deal optimizing my other snake variation that actually wears clothing. Also, clothing created inevitably inherits the complexity of the body it is based on unless due to several reasons, this being that often clothing is cut out from the body or modelled closely after the body, sharing roughly its triangle segmentations to match those of the body underneath in order to allow the clothing to bend when rigged as close to the body as possible (because we all hate clothing that sticks through don't we?).

 

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Though an additional note here, even though this precaution is taken it seems to not help as most if not everyone i see with human bodies use alphas regardless of the clothing fitting or not. This is much rarer on pure furry bodies and also much less often required as much more care is taken to prevent clipping even with extremely tight clothing, this however could be again due to taking the base body weights (since most if not all furry bodies come with the full blender file and all weights, which mean weights can simply be copied to the clothing). The key point here being that if your body already sports hundreds of thousands of triangles, the clothing will inevitably have to follow to some degree, meaning low triangle bodies will sport much lower triangle count clothing and accessories than higher triangle bodies. Which puts all the more emphasis on creating a very well optimized base body. However, at this point we are so far down the rabbit hole that even if they were to suddenly update all human bodies to be perfectly optimized and super low poly, clothing wouldn't follow probably for many years to come, since the customers would have to buy new stuff that was created for the new updated body which they wont if they can just use their old... also why recreate everything that's already there... right?

I suppose this is the other side of the blade, while it seems like a big drawback having a new body being incompatible with the old stuff its actually also a big part in how and why optimization takes place in the way it does. Plus, with the full blender files it is often not even hard to refit already existing parts to new bodies. I've already seen several big furry creators refit their clothing for several avatars, starting usually with the Kemono, followed by the Blue Galaxy Solarian and some Orange Nova avatars, sometimes even the base LL body.

This kinda brings me to a big problem again, the whole no-mod fiasco and the many road blockers put in your way as creator.... or the inaccessibility of good blender files. Any and all "issues" with furry bodies, be it incompatible clothing, issues with rigging or texturing, missing body parts, bad optimization or something else, all of these issues can easily be fixed with the easy-to-access original files both textures and mesh itself and the mod permission on almost everything (save the scripts). Another big problem of the hard-to-mod bodies is that i can't even help people. Since i've joined SL i've always exclusively used the build tools to do my edits unless its a HUD that changes textures and they are only available via the HUD (like different eyebrows, eyes, body texture variants etc) because it is much easier and faster to do it that way and it universally works across everything ever in Second Life, its also one of the baseline skills of Second Life. No-mod and HUD exclusive bodies prevent me from editing them directly, this has caused me a lot of trouble several times already. A lot of people come to me with issues about their body in my Viewer because it doesn't offer the usual common bad hacks Firestorm does (like turning off eye movement) that everyone has been praising you up and down to use at all times. I can't help them because their issues always require editing their bodies, which they can't and either the HUD doesn't offer what is required to fix it or the HUD is an over scripted 500 button high tech machine that requires rocket science to operate, it is next to impossible for me to help them unless i had the HUD myself and every body has its own HUD.... or HUDs... often multiple. I constantly have to resort to shoving these users off to other users in my Discord channel because i cannot help them, not only does this make me look like an ***** it also makes me completely helpless which is the exact opposite of the point of coming to me directly because i can usually offer fast and straight-to-the-point help with almost all issues. My biggest gripe with this is that this is not something i can fix, it's an issue that content creators create for the sole purpose of ... i don't know... i'm literally incapable of understanding why you would do this, logic does not help me here and all i can think of is simply wanting to see the world burn for the sake of seeing it burn.

I'm going to repeat myself here but if i could i would have made a human mesh body that offers the freedom and optimization of furry content while offering as much compatibility with the human content as possible and making switching over as easy as possible. I'd even go as far as making it free if this is what i'd have to do to destroy this weird no-mod human economy with unoptimized content. I'm that type of guy who wants to see YOU burn if you want to see the world burn for no reason like these seemingly people do. I've already proven in the past that i do try to crack down hard on people who (what i can only describe as) scam people. See the Black Dragon Poser. Poser HUDs were a thing and they became pretty popular... for a steep price... i found it unacceptable to demand so much money (upwards of 3000L$) for something that should be free for everyone, ultimately leading to me making the Poser an actual thing, for free, i've even tried pushing it into the Official Viewer but with them wanting to gut half of its useful features for the sake of content protection when it gets an exporter the implementation has come to an halt for now.

You can only hope that you never do something that i see as scam or as unethical while i have the skill to do the same or something better than you, i will try to ruin you and i will do it for free. I am absolutely the biggest ***** when it comes to ripping off people, i have a zero-tolerance policy to these kind of things.

[RachelGrace0925]

I just came because I was looking for a free mesh body that would wear maitreya clothing since that seems to be the most available and easiest to get and what the most content creators are making clothing for. I haven't seen an answer for that since 2020.

[Rowan Amore]

28 minutes ago, RachelGrace0925 said:

I just came because I was looking for a free mesh body that would wear maitreya clothing since that seems to be the most available and easiest to get and what the most content creators are making clothing for. I haven't seen an answer for that since 2020.

I think the Lucy body is still the only free body to wear most of Maitreya clothings.  There is now a BOM add on that you must purchase if you want to use BOM skins.

https://ryanschultz.com/2020/03/15/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-atenea-female-mesh-body-from-lucybody/

[Isaac Ashton]

42 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I think the Lucy body is still the only free body to wear most of Maitreya clothings.  There is now a BOM add on that you must purchase if you want to use BOM skins.

https://ryanschultz.com/2020/03/15/second-life-steals-deals-and-freebies-the-atenea-female-mesh-body-from-lucybody/

Correct. The Lucy body can be used with most Maitreya clothes and Slink shoes fit best, though some Maitreya shoes also fit. The body is currently available for free as a midnight mania gift. It can take a couple of days before the target is reached but once you're registrered, your name remains in the midnight mania until the target is reached. To use it with BOM, a relay must be bought separately. It costs L$197. Body and relay are available here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Coral Reef/23/44/2003

[Blaise Glendevon]

3 hours ago, RachelGrace0925 said:

I just came because I was looking for a free mesh body that would wear maitreya clothing since that seems to be the most available and easiest to get and what the most content creators are making clothing for. I haven't seen an answer for that since 2020.

You'd be better off just buying the Maitreya body. That way you can be sure the skins you want will be optimized for it.

[Setsuki Takeda]

Wait for a Maitreya sale, it's what I've been watching for to outfit my "Sleeping Beauty" alt, I want to have one ready to go that isn't "new" in case I ever need a second avatar or to replace the one I have but since it's not my main I don't want to spend a lot on it.

So far I'm using the LeLUTKA free head from Advent on her, which of course was given out a week after I spent 4k L$ on a head for myself to switch to EvoX from Catwa HDPro, and the freebie TMP body... Which works, kinda, but I *will* be getting Maitreya Petite the next time I see it on one of those half-off sales.

I have two bodies, not counting the Jomo anthro avatar, Maitreya Petite and Dev Nana... Though Dev just released a new body, Angel, that I like better than Nana. Hopefully it gets the skin support Nana has, the "Pro Athlete" skin I use on Nana looks really nice for the Amazon Warrior avatar, but so far all the ones that fit the mapping for Angel are really generic and clothing is all Omega Appliers not fitted mesh so it all looks painted on to me.

As for the male question I have some armor (From POE) that is rigged for Gianni and, to get it working, I bought the Kuroo (not sure if I'm spelling that correctly) body. Not one I would use for daily wear, even if I was a man, but if it's *mostly* (or in the case of the armor I bought completely) covered by clothing or armor it fits well and is close enough to *much* higher priced male avis that things rigged for them will fit with only minimal alphaing.

[Maitimo]

12 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

You'd be better off just buying the Maitreya body. That way you can be sure the skins you want will be optimized for it.

Only an expert would notice the differences with an unoptimised skin. The belly button is in a very slightly different pace on Lucybody and even I didn't notice until I'd owned both bodies for nearly a year. I still haven't found any other differences.

9 hours ago, NanashiNyx said:

Wait for a Maitreya sale, it's what I've been watching for to outfit my "Sleeping Beauty" alt, I want to have one ready to go that isn't "new" in case I ever need a second avatar or to replace the one I have but since it's not my main I don't want to spend a lot on it.
 

Maitreya has sales? How often? I've never seen one.

9 hours ago, NanashiNyx said:

As for the male question I have some armor (From POE) that is rigged for Gianni and, to get it working, I bought the Kuroo (not sure if I'm spelling that correctly) body. Not one I would use for daily wear, even if I was a man, but if it's *mostly* (or in the case of the armor I bought completely) covered by clothing or armor it fits well and is close enough to *much* higher priced male avis that things rigged for them will fit with only minimal alphaing.

I'll concur with this. I used to use Signature Geralt which has very little clothing support, but Belleza Jake tops and Gianni or TMP pants often fit well enough.

[Ze Helix]

I wouldn't wait for a Maitreya sale. The last one I noticed was 2 years ago on Black Friday. I thought they might do another Black Friday sale last year but they didn't so seems safe to buy without regret.

[Setsuki Takeda]

14 minutes ago, Ze Helix said:

I wouldn't wait for a Maitreya sale. The last one I noticed was 2 years ago on Black Friday. I thought they might do another Black Friday sale last year but they didn't so seems safe to buy without regret.

They *just* had one on Black Friday of 2021.

Not sure if they do other ones, but it sounds like Black Friday is pretty consistent for half off sales on Lara and the mods for it.

[Isaac Ashton]

1 hour ago, NanashiNyx said:

They *just* had one on Black Friday of 2021.

Not sure if they do other ones, but it sounds like Black Friday is pretty consistent for half off sales on Lara and the mods for it.

OK but the next Black Friday is in about 10 months. I guess in the meantime Rachel wants to be able to walk around SL with something else than the system avatar and to enjoy her Maitreya clothes even if she can't afford Maitreya Lara at full price right now. The Lucy body is IMO a good (and cheap) alternative until the next Maitreya sales and that's what she's looking for.

[Ze Helix]

Oh huh. I didn't check the group notices or anything but I didn't see it in the SeraphimSL list and I thought I went by Maitreya to check if the sale was going on during black friday 2021 and it was normal price. I guess I just missed it, I didn't need to buy anything anyways I was just curious if it happened. Perhaps it was one of those sales where you pay full price and get refunded half so I wouldn't be able to check just by clicking.

[Coby Foden]

8 hours ago, Isaac Ashton said:

OK but the next Black Friday is in about 10 months. I guess in the meantime Rachel wants to be able to walk around SL with something else than the system avatar and to enjoy her Maitreya clothes even if she can't afford Maitreya Lara at full price right now. The Lucy body is IMO a good (and cheap) alternative until the next Maitreya sales and that's what she's looking for.

Lucybody is very good alternative to wear while waiting for Maitreya body sales to pop up again. The good thing is as the Lucybody uses Maitreya clothes then there is no need to by the same clothes again if one finally buys the Maitreya body.

When buying shoes for the Lucybody it's good to save both from the shoe package: the Slink shoes, and the Maitreya shoes. Then after switching to Maitreya body there are perfectly fitting shoes in inventory for Maitreya body.

[Lokiande]

For a human body on a budget I'd suggest Ruth. Can fit Maitreya clothing with some shape tweaks, and is usually sold fullperm. So you can manually edit it to your liking. Has BOM capabilities

Plus it comes with a foot pose in the HUD that lets you choose how you want your feet via animation- flat, and abt 5 different types of medium to high heel. AND a medium and high heel foot mesh if the pose HUD isn't your style.

The variant I'm listing here also comes with a head, toenails, 5 fingernail options, eyeballs and lashes, hair, basic system clothing, and physics. SL users have made Thicc and macro variants, if you need more variety tho don't expect them to fit much. Hope this helps

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Ruth2-v4-Mesh-Avatar/20220006

EDITED TO ADD- ruth is also very low poly compared to other mesh bodies! there's a devkit on the MP in the same store for free if u wanna make stuff for it, and as soon as i figure out Bento Buddy I'm going to try and make addons for ruth.

EDIT 2- first link gives you a body with built in head. here is the version that's headless. same store, same body.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Ruth2-v4-Extras/20220640

Edited February 2, 2022 by Lokiande

[Blaise Glendevon]

44 minutes ago, Lokiande said:

For a human body on a budget I'd suggest Ruth.

This thing is just as ugly as the Second Life body. The head even more so.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

This thing is just as ugly as the Second Life body. The head even more so.

true ..but i think a good step before spending a serious amount of L$ /USD to mesh/bom before the popular brands.

[Blaise Glendevon]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

true ..but i think a good step before spending a serious amount of L$ /USD to mesh/bom before the popular brands.

For retention of newbies who want to play pixel barbies or get their goodies out on the nudie sims? The Ruth, in particular, does none of the things people who want to style mesh bodies want and is excessively complicated to use. Keep pushing Ruth at girls who want to look good and you'll lose them.

I am temporarily putting a hold on groaning at the Lucybody. If the Midnight Madness ever hits (I've been waiting 3 days) I'll give it a good faith try. But the Ruth, which I have tried in different formats, is the actual drizzling *****s.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon

[Lokiande]

Hence the headless body option. And tbh i just... don't see a big difference in this vs other name brand bodies??? Under any clothes you add it's still gonna look like any other Big Boob Big Butt Wasp Waist if you tweak the shape. Which 99% of SLers do because Thin=Sexeh but that's a whole nother can of worms