Jump to content
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 125 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Bob Dylan.  Such an amazing man, Bob.  

And here's another Dylan song back at ya, sung by Joan Baez, Blowin' In the Wind.

I was thinking about Ceka's grandmother at the boarding school, and how separating kids from their family was so damaging, and wondering about all the POC too beaten down to even attend the protests. So many sunk with alcoholism in Native communities, so many Blacks who were never able to overcome the blows dealt to them enough to have a decent life. I hope they can at least turn on their TV and draw some inspiration from the marches.

Anyway, I searched for the song "We Shall Overcome", the old traditional so popular in the turbulence of the 60's, sung by Joan Baez, and came across a series of songs she is singing and dedicating to various groups. This one is dedicated to Native Americans who are struggling with Covid at such high levels. The phenomenal activist is still going strong, even from her kitchen!
   

 

Edited by Luna Bliss
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

Posted Images

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

And here's another Dylan song back at ya, sung by Joan Baez, Blowin' In the Wind.

I was thinking about Ceka's grandmother at the boarding school, and how separating kids from their family was so damaging, and wondering about all the POC too beaten down to even attend the protests. So many sunk with alcoholism in Native communities, so many Blacks who were never able to overcome the blows dealt to them enough to have a decent life. I hope they can at least turn on their TV and draw some inspiration from the marches.

Anyway, I searched for the song "We Shall Overcome", the old traditional so popular in the turbulence of the 60's, sung by Joan Baez, and came across a series of songs she is singing and dedicating to various groups. This one is dedicated to Native Americans who are struggling with Covid at such high levels. The phenomenal activist is still going strong, even from her kitchen!
   

 

Yay, Joan!  She's amazing and one of Bob's loves.  They almost got married when they were young.  I think their careers drifted them apart.  Her song "Diamonds and Rust" is said to be about Bob Dylan.  But, she is beautiful person inside and out, and has one of the most unique voices I've ever heard.  

Edited by FairreLilette
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joan singing with some more of those big, bad, violent, evil protesters:

 

 

Edited by Luna Bliss
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/26/2020 at 10:09 AM, Janet Voxel said:

I keep hearing the argument that people don’t want to support what is going on because of terms like “white privilege”. To me this sounds like a branding issue. The thing is, with all of the facts pointed out about racial disparity, what would a better term be?

After looking up the word "privilege" which I will copy and paste below as I wanted an exact definition to work with here.  As far as the exact definition, we most definitely need to look at "police privilege" as something that is dangerous.  As someone in one of the BLM threads or perhaps even in this one said, 'we are civilians for heaven's sake'.  The police act very crazy towards civilians sometimes as I've told my own personal story of my nephew and sister being beaten by an out of uniform police officer on their own property and they are white.  This issue, no matter how many this color or that color, certain police privileges need to come to an end.  These are civilians the police are dealing with; very few hardened criminals such as a Drug Lord and those kinds of hardened criminals are usually dealt with by the very experienced elite forces such as the FBI.  I don't care if George Floyd had a record regarding anything, no police officer has a right to murder someone in the street unless perhaps they are pointing a gun at an officer, but George Floyd wasn't, nor was my nephew.  My nephew was just taking out the trash and my sister was cooking dinner in their house on their property.  Well, my sister won the lawsuit against this man, but the damage was done.  My nephew and sister are not ever going to be the same.  My nephew lives in another state with family because we all felt it's safer there for him for various reasons.  

As far as "white privilege", I'd prefer "white favoritism" because for one whites don't have immunity and also it's something my Mom always spoke about regarding "the ins" of the government in that one hand washes the other.  They are playing favorites is what my Mom was saying; the government.  It's kind of like you do this for my son, I'll do that for your son.  Favoritism.   

Here is the definition of privilege which speaks about immunity.

noun

a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most:the privileges of the very rich.
 
a special right, immunity, or exemption granted to persons in authority or office to free them from certain obligations or liabilities:the privilege of a senator to speak in Congress without danger of a libel suit.
 
a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions.the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

The problem arises when you blame white Fairre for not being pulled over or for not being followed, instead of blaming the people doing the pulling and following. Throwing racist terms and insults at her is, as already previously said, going to make her dig in and argue. It's not going to make her consider the those questions.

I'm not blaming her. I'm pointing out the truth that it happens. She has never been pulled over by the cops for driving while black because she isn't black. She has absolutely no knowledge of it happening to her because she isn't black. She keeps making an argument that since she's never seen it, it's obviously not a terrible problem for black people. Again, though, let me point out that she isn't black.

I've never been pulled over for driving while black, either... because I'm not black. Do I blame myself for that? Of course not. I'm not blaming her, either. Acknowledging an issue is not the same as taking the blame for it. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm not blaming her. I'm pointing out the truth that it happens. She has never been pulled over by the cops for driving while black because she isn't black. She has absolutely no knowledge of it happening to her because she isn't black. She keeps making an argument that since she's never seen it, it's obviously not a terrible problem for black people. Again, though, let me point out that she isn't black.

I've never been pulled over for driving while black, either... because I'm not black. Do I blame myself for that? Of course not. I'm not blaming her, either. Acknowledging an issue is not the same as taking the blame for it. 

No, it's just you assuming stuff because that has nothing to do with my post.

Luna said take your life and then make yourself Black in the situations you lived (meaning me) but again you want to make it all about you including my own life you want to make about you.

None of us were ever pulled over by the cops.  

Please stop trying to make up things in my life that never occurred and make it about you which you do do, Beth.  

You did not live my life.  

You were the one who threw in the question have white Fairre/black Fairre driving in Brentwood but I never said that happened - YOU DID.  None of us girls were pulled over by the cops - I said we were home with our Mom's 90% of the time and very boring girls who were never pulled over by the cops.  

 

  • Haha 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A part of white privilege that doesn't get talked about enough is the luxury to remain oblivious - and it is a privilege because it's a choice, especially in 2020. White people can make the decision to shut out a 42 million voices trying to explain how black people are not afforded the same basic human decency that white people are. 

Black people aren't afforded that choice. They have to live with it every single day. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

A part of white privilege that doesn't get talked about enough is the luxury to remain oblivious - and it is a privilege because it's a choice, especially in 2020. White people can make the decision to shut out a 42 million voices trying to explain how black people are not afforded the same basic human decency that white people are. 

Black people aren't afforded that choice. They have to live with it every single day. 

Okay, my life was of the upper middle class rich.  My two best friends were bi-racial.  One of my best friends her Mother was Black and her Father was White, and my other best friend her Mother was Lebanese and her Father was White.  

So, now I need to be black Fairre growing up in an upper middle class rich world with two bi-racial friends.  My friends other than being in school, we would play music and do arts and crafts.  We liked to paint ceramics for the most part while we listened to music.  So, we were home with our Mom's 90% of the time, let's say this is Summer time (off of school).  

So, the 10% of the time during Summer that we were not with our Mom's was that we would walk to the corner store to buy a candy or a soda and/or walk to the bowling alley to bowl along with having french fries and a soda in the Bowling Alley when we were done.   So, me and my bi-racial friends and I'm black walk to the corner store to buy candy or a soda.  I'm treated badly here with my two bi-racial friends by Mr. _________ he had a name as he knew us.  Okay, according to Beth, Mr. Blank would treat me horribly but not my two bi-racial friends.  And, then we'd walk to the Bowling Alley and pay our money at the desk and then go pick out our rented bowling shoes and according to Beth I'd be treated horribly by the Bowling Alley because I am black but my two bi-racial friends would be treated just fine.  Then my two friends and I would have french fries and a soda in the Bowling Alley but because I am black I would have been treated badly in the cafe in the Bowling Alley but my two best friends who were bi-racial would be treated fine.  

This is not the world according to Beth.  My best friend's Mom who was black was not treated horribly.  And, if she was treated horribly because she was a black women married to a white man, by whom?  Was she denied a home?  No.  Was she denied nice clothes?  No.  Was she denied a nice car?  No.  Was her daughter denied attending the same school as white people because she wasn't all white or all black?  No.  And, on and on that list could go.  There are nice people in this world believe it or not, Beth.  But, me, because I'm black and my father made a lot of money, we would have been denied but the bi-racial friends of ours would have been treated just fine.  Beth, you are making stuff up in your mind.  

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Luna said take your life and then make yourself Black in the situations you lived (meaning me)

I'm sorry, I think my experiment meant to increase awareness of white privilege via empathy was poorly worded and so this has caused confusion. I didn't include that it's okay to interject a little imagination -- it doesn't have to be your exact, literal childhood.

For example, what if you'd been born into a Black, lower-class family in another part of town -- how might your life have been different? (Most likely you'd have emotional and economic deprivations).
Or what if you had a Black brother who was more likely to be murdered when he left your safer part of the city -- how would your life had been different? (Like the lack of safety this would cause in a family, the worrying).
Imagining what others go through can create empathy, and empathy between the 'races' facilitates better communication and solutions to problems.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Okay, my life was of the upper middle class rich.  My two best friends were bi-racial.  One of my best friends her Mother was Black and her Father was White, and my other best friend her Mother was Lebanese and her Father was White.  

So, now I need to be black Fairre growing up in an upper middle class rich world with two bi-racial friends.  My friends other than being in school, we would play music and do arts and crafts.  We liked to paint ceramics for the most part while we listened to music.  So, we were home with our Mom's 90% of the time, let's say this is Summer time (off of school).  

So, the 10% of the time during Summer that we were not with our Mom's was that we would walk to the corner store to buy a candy or a soda and/or walk to the bowling alley to bowl along with having french fries and a soda in the Bowling Alley when we were done.   So, me and my bi-racial friends and I'm black walk to the corner store to buy candy or a soda.  I'm treated badly here with my two bi-racial friends by Mr. _________ he had a name as he knew us.  Okay, according to Beth, Mr. Blank would treat me horribly but not my two bi-racial friends.  And, then we'd walk to the Bowling Alley and pay our money at the desk and then go pick out our rented bowling shoes and according to Beth I'd be treated horribly by the Bowling Alley because I am black but my two bi-racial friends would be treated just fine.  Then my two friends and I would have french fries and a soda in the Bowling Alley but because I am black I would have been treated badly in the cafe in the Bowling Alley but my two best friends who were bi-racial would be treated fine.  

This is not the world according to Beth.  My best friend's Mom who was black was not treated horribly.  And, if she was treated horribly because she was a black women married to a white man, by whom?  Was she denied a home?  No.  Was she denied nice clothes?  No.  Was she denied a nice car?  No.  Was her daughter denied attending the same school as white people because she wasn't all white or all black?  No.  And, on and on that list could go.  There are nice people in this world believe it or not, Beth.  But, me, because I'm black and my father made a lot of money, we would have been denied but the bi-racial friends of ours would have been treated just fine.  Beth, you are making stuff up in your mind.  

Not to discredit you on your experience, but from my experience and perspective as a non-mixed black girl...mixed girls get treated sooooooooo much better than we do. Like for real. I’m not saying they don’t deal with their own problems, but they have it a bit better than those of us who are fully black with two black parents.

 

D7CC2378-981A-4015-B5B0-FFF574E1F7DB.jpeg

D6797A4B-8692-448A-A8A3-B5697D5E9F30.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm sorry, I think my experiment meant to increase awareness of white privilege via empathy was poorly worded and so this has caused confusion. I didn't include that it's okay to interject a little imagination -- it doesn't have to be your exact, literal childhood.

For example, what if you'd been born into a Black, lower-class family in another part of town -- how might your life had been different? (Most likely you'd have emotional and economic deprivations).
Or what if you had a Black brother who was more likely to be murdered when he left your safer part of the city -- how would your life had been different? (Like the lack of safety this would cause in a family, the worrying).
Imagining what others go through can create empathy, and empathy between the 'races' facilitates better communication and solutions to problems.

I answered that in my same post Beth was quoting me out of context trying to make my life hers. 

I said something along the lines if I had been in a poorer Black situation I would be afraid of freedom because of all the competition I might face and I don't know what skills I would have.  So I mentioned I bought a typewriter for $35 dollars and got a book from the library titled "Teach Yourself to Type" (which I did in my life as a white girl).   So, I taught myself to type and got a job.  Now, I said there weren't many Black girls in our typing pool but there were Black nurses and Black women who worked in the cafeteria in the hospitals I worked for.  But, I'd assume with the same typing skills whether white or black since I worked in hospitals I'd have gotten into the typing pool because typing jobs then were plentiful.  I think I would have done okay.  You have to realize I've only lived in multi-ethnic communities.  But still, if I was coming out of the inner city, I'd be a bit fearful but I'd need some skills so I taught myself to type.  As a white person I wanted some skills and to make my own money myself too.  So, I got a book at the library and a very cheap used typewriter and taught myself.   Since it's me, I think I could have done the same and all I had to do was walk to the library to get the book.  A neighbor had a used typewriter.   Do you think I couldn't have accomplished teaching myself to type and get a job if I were Black?   I also took in neighborhood ironing and sewing pre teaching myself to type and getting my first real job.  

Edited by FairreLilette
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

 Do you think I couldn't have accomplished teaching myself to type and get a job if I were Black?

Well, we have to take into consideration these studies I've posted, where employers tend to prefer Whites over Blacks via initial applications for jobs.  So being Black might have lessened your chances to get a job.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, we have to take into consideration these studies I've posted, where people tend to prefer Whites over Blacks via initial applications for jobs.  So being Black might have lessened your chances to get a job.

Actually your study proved employers preferred anglicized names, not necessarily white or black people.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:
3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, we have to take into consideration these studies I've posted, where people tend to prefer Whites over Blacks via initial applications for jobs.  So being Black might have lessened your chances to get a job.

Actually your study proved employers preferred anglicized names, not necessarily white or black people.

So you read the two studies equaling 100 pages?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Luna Bliss said:

So you read the two studies equaling 100 pages?

Having a non english name in real, it was something I have wondered in past when applying unsuccessfully for some positions I was very qualified for, expecting at least a call back.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, we have to take into consideration these studies I've posted, where employers tend to prefer Whites over Blacks via initial applications for jobs.  So being Black might have lessened your chances to get a job.

Yes, but there were Black nurses and Black women who worked in the Cafeteria in the hospitals.  Probably, the Black nurses, since it was a privileged area, their parents paid for nursing school.  I didn't want to go to school.  I wanted to start my own business which I eventually did.  

But, then typing jobs were quite plentiful for women and paid very well too.  

I mean it's like you're all saying since I'm a poor Black Fairre who taught herself to type, she wouldn't get a job.  I'm not so sure that's a truth.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, FairreLilette said:
10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, we have to take into consideration these studies I've posted, where employers tend to prefer Whites over Blacks via initial applications for jobs.  So being Black might have lessened your chances to get a job.

Yes, but there were Black nurses and Black women who worked in the Cafeteria in the hospitals.  Probably, the Black nurses, since it was a privileged area, their parents paid for nursing school.  I didn't want to go to school.  I wanted to start my own business which I eventually did.  

But, then typing jobs were quite plentiful for women and paid very well too.  

I mean it's like you're all saying since I'm a poor Black Fairre who taught herself to type, she wouldn't get a job.  I'm not so sure that's a truth.  

No, not saying 'Black Fairre' would not get a job -- I'm saying she might be less likely to because of discrimination in hiring.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So you read the two studies equaling 100 pages?

Having a non english name in real, it was something I have wondered in past when applying unsuccessfully for some positions I was very qualified for, expecting at least a call back.

So you're considering the lack of response might have been due to your non-English sounding name?  I would think that would be a factor too, depending on the type of job and area of the country.

With those studies though, one of the tests had other variables which indicated race, so it was not always revealed in a Black sounding name. Variables like belonging to the 'Black whatever club', or an organization that typically included a lot of Blacks in the membership.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Well yeah, there's always going to be crazy ones out there, but as someone that frequents conservative/republican (gun owner) forums, I can say that the police don't have many fans over there either. The reasons are a little different, but they'd like to see a lot of change too.

Frame your message in the correct way, and police reform will truly be one of the few topics that the majority of people will agree on. Which is why it's such a great start- It's a perfect chance to ask "If we can agree on that, what else can we agree on?"

Yeah framing is everything.

Political Science studies have shown that people agree on roughly 80% of political stances / topics once you remove the assorted party framing that is designed to get us to back our team and hate the other teams.

The problem is that we all get so entrenched in only being able to see things from our own lenses.

And yeah - I posted a video of some crazy right wingers but... I spent my teen years in a hood surrounded by hippies that all though the FBI, CIA, and NSA were wiretapping them, and following their every last move and the government was planting bombs on them and so on... ie: crazy left wingers.

Crazy isn't a political side... it manifests anytime that bubble your in gets so thick it stops letting in fresh air... 😛

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

No, not saying 'Black Fairre' would not get a job -- I'm saying she might be less likely to because of discrimination in hiring.

In think there are a lot of variables in this though because it's a life that wasn't mine and so it could one a million different outcomes.  One such outcome, is that I ended up married young.  And, I never wanted to marry young.  Eek, no.  I waited.  Thank people who cared to let women have birth control pills so we could figure out who we were before settling down very young.  Either way though, since it's the same time frame, I most likely would have been on the pill.  But, if I weren't on the pill, I probably would have gotten married young as the most likely other scenario other than perhaps eventually being hired due to my being Black holding me back a bit.  

And, therefore, I might have had to do something I didn't want to do, which was marrying young (such as 18).  

Edited by FairreLilette
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, if I weren't on the pill, I probably would have gotten married young

If you had a child as Black Fairre you might have suffered more than had you been White Fairre, as 50% of doctors believe Blacks need less pain medication.  I don't know when this strange perception began, but Thomas Jefferson had it, saying Blacks can endure more pain (guess it served him to believe this as he could work the slaves longer).

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you had a child as Black Fairre you might have suffered more than had you been White Fairre, as 50% of doctors believe Blacks need less pain medication.  I don't know when this strange perception began, but Thomas Jefferson had it, saying Blacks can endure more pain (guess it served him to believe this as he could work the slaves longer).

I admire you for continuing to try, but you might as well give up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you had a child as Black Fairre you might have suffered more than had you been White Fairre, as 50% of doctors believe Blacks need less pain medication.  I don't know when this strange perception began, but Thomas Jefferson had it, saying Blacks can endure more pain (guess it served him to believe this as he could work the slaves longer).

Probably a result of the rationale that those who have an active lifestyle are less prone to feeling pain than those whose lives were more sedentary. I've certainly experienced that phenomenon over various periods of my life. Probably safe to assume that a slave of child bearing age would be quite a bit more active than the one's benefiting from her labors and as a result of that work, have a higher pain threshold.

Even backed by science https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5303119/ 

Edited by Arielle Popstar
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2020 at 4:36 AM, Robin Kiyori said:

England was the birthplace of colonialism.

Modern colonialism? I believe that was Portugal. In SE Asia at any rate, then came the Dutch. The English were late to the party. 

Anyway, arguing who did what first is pointless, as there were countless invasions before any Europeans came.  What matters is how we treat each other now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 125 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...