Widows 7 blog post and system requirements

[cheesecurd]

So this came out 

Tldr Windows 7 going eol, LL is gonna stop testing for it, updates may not function as intended but just like with XP I imagine it’ll function for a pretty long time. That’s a whole other debate though 

I just want to gripe about this quote:

Accordingly, Linden Lab is updating our system requirements to remove Windows 7 from the versions we support
 

Which is uhh, ok fine. But how about you actually update the system requirements as a whole? If you’re gonna change that as to make sure users know what they can and can’t use to play, how about making the rest of that page relevant or factually correct at all?

https://secondlife.com/support/system-requirements
 

Some amazing mentions on that page include:

“Cable OR DSL” as if it’s 2006.

“CPU with SSE2 support” which means literally anything newer than a Pentium 4.

Recommended resolution is 1024x768 or higher. The last 1024x768 display I ever used was probably over 15 years ago.

ATI being mentioned at all considering they were bought by AMD in 2006.

The list of video cards that don’t work with SL are all cards from the late 90’s and very early 2000’s and it should be pretty damn obvious if you’re still running your Voodoo 5 5500 that you can’t play anything remotely modern.

Why even bother updating the page for Windows 7 going EOL if everything else on that page is equally as useless and misleading?

Spend some time talking to your users or gathering hardware information and performance results to update that mess. Or even just look at the steam hardware surveys and dump some of that name changing money into ebay computer parts to test the most popular stuff yourself and find performance equivalents.

It’s so out of touch with modern hardware that Hall and Oates are revising their song of the same name to be about it.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

I wonder how many "active" SL users, those that log in at least once per month, are still using Windows 7?  I would guess around 25,000.  Some older users with perfectly good WIn 7 computers will not be able to afford the upgrade, or to buy a new computer as Microsoft so arrogantly suggests.  As SL membership declines....

 

 

[Monderas Bristol]

A lot of people don't want to upgrade to Win10 simply because they've tried it and think it's s***, don't like all the telemetry (Microsoft spying on them) and just prefer Windows 7. A lot of things about the Win 10 UI suck. I use Start10 and windowblinds so my system looks pretty much like Win 7 anyway, or I boot into Linux, but the last official LL build of Secondlife for Linux was 5.0.9 so who wants to use that?  No wonder people turn to 3rd party viewers, like Firestorm. It's not just a case of people not having the latest hardware anyway, a lot of the time they just don't want to use Win 10.

[Vanity Fair]

Yeah, it amazes me just how ancient some of the computers that access Second Life are. 

I understand the reason for this decision, though. If Microsoft themselves is firmly moving on from Windows 7, then LL really has no choice but to do so too.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

49 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I wonder how many "active" SL users, those that log in at least once per month, are still using Windows 7?  I would guess around 25,000.  Some older users with perfectly good WIn 7 computers will not be able to afford the upgrade, or to buy a new computer as Microsoft so arrogantly suggests.  As SL membership declines....

Windows 7 can still be upgraded to 10 free. 

[Alyona Su]

Windows XP is still the best Microsoft ever did.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

41 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Windows 7 can still be upgraded to 10 free. 

Windows 10 is practically free, period.

You can download it from Microsoft's site for free and never have to activate it. That's what I did.

[Chic Aeon]

For those deciding to update from Win7 to Win10 know that there can be some major problems in doing so. So be SURE AND MAKE BACKUPS of everything.    I had two very techie friends (old and loooooooong time computer pros) update using the free version and both had issues. They solved their problems for the most part eventually but it was definitely NOT plug and play.   So be aware.

 

Since I will do almost anything NOT to have to deal with that kind of stuff, I bought a new computer AFTER Win10 came out. I also (on advice from several website articles) got Win10 pro  which has kept me running pretty seamlessly with no issues while home folks still have problems.   

You can (and I HAVE) turn off almost all the spying and informational parts of Win10.  I have everything off but my microphone. I do not use any voice controllers or anything like that though.  So far I have everything set on automatic for updates (restore doesn't work anyway) and let Win10 keep me up to date in the night.  Three years and no issues. There are quite a few things that I prefer with Win10 -- and I was in Win7 long after it was "improved" :D. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Chic Aeon
spelling

[Rachel1206]

Make a clean install of Windows 10,  copy your  documents etc manual back into the given folders. It simply does not make sense to expect 13 years drivers and often in case terminated applications to be supported.

If older computer be sure all hardware still supported by updated drivers and that the computer meets the basic Windows10  requirements. Although Windows 10 does a good job with standard drivers, it is essential GPU, audio etc are still supported.

Follow the privacy settings guides by Microsoft - if in doubt disable - just use common sense. And compared to nearly all others, today MS is  a company protecting you data better than all the others.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Rachel1206

[animats]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Windows 10 is practically free, period.

That's because, with Windows 10, you're the product, not the customer. It's adware.

Windows 10 without ads, the enterprise version, is about $500.

I have a Windows 7 machine, used only for the few remaining things that need Microsoft. Everything else is on Linux, including Firestorm.

Edited January 10, 2020 by animats

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

3 minutes ago, animats said:

That's because, with Windows 10, you're the product, not the customer.

And with Linux, you're the beta-tester. Remember that old tale about if Airlines were like Operating Systems?

I have a machine running Windows 10 on 4GB Ram, it manages fairly well after a lot of tweaking, but an identical machine with Windows 7 uses less system resource doing the same thing. Initially I wasn't going to migrate any further machines from Windows 7 to 10 but having now measured what system resources things like malwareBytes will take up in order to give me a similar amount of security on Windows 7, I'd say that Windows 10 is looking like the lesser of two evils.

For those diehards out there thinking "Ok, no problem, I'll stick to Windows 7 and compile one of the TPVs to run on it", don't forget that amongst the things for which support will be dropped are dotNet and Visual Studio...

[Wulfie Reanimator]

59 minutes ago, animats said:

That's because, with Windows 10, you're the product, not the customer. It's adware.

Windows 10 without ads, the enterprise version, is about $500.

I have a Windows 7 machine, used only for the few remaining things that need Microsoft. Everything else is on Linux, including Firestorm.

Trust me, I know. I also preach the "if it's free, you're the product" line. I'm dubious on the ad thing though, I've never seen an ad on my OS. Bloatware games that you can uninstall? Yes.

[OptimoMaximo]

12 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Bloatware games that you can uninstall? Yes.

A fun anecdote about this: when I first moved to win 10 from 7, the very first release, after the setup finished I was presented with a screen basically saying "we noticed you use a certain type of applications, so your windows 10 version was equipped with some apps you may like"... I thought ok, fine, let's check it out... And I found 3d builder and paint3d... I mean, aside from detecting stuff (feature that I immediately disabled thereafter), you MS detected that I'm using Autodesk Maya and think I may like 3dbuilder and paint3d??!! I mean, seriously?!?!? LOL! 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

In general, the Apps Microsoft want you to look at smack horribly of tablet-based clicky-slidy things that really belong on a surface (oh wait, is that where their roadmap is leading us?), and even worse, many of the bloat-stuff that you laboriously remove or disable comes right back after every "we're making Windows Better" update. I didn't realise it had got sick.

In defence of 3DBuilder, I actually found it quite handy. I build something in SL ten times larger than I actually want, export it as an OBJ (or a DAE in which case it has to then go via Blender to get re-exported as an OBJ or 3DS), pass it into 3DCrafter to scale it by 1/10th and re-orient the axes, then put it into 3DBuilder and do any final tweaks such as edge-bevels, and finally send it via Cura to a 3D Printer. Before that, I had to do a lot of fiddling about in Blender and typically made things far worse.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Loleeta Lennie]

Many people, as mentioned above, simply can't afford to nor even WANT to upgrade to that junk called Windows 10. Technically, there is no reason LL needs to stop allowing Windows 7 machines to connect to SL. Nothing in that connection will change.

And as previously posted, many older Residents simply won't upgrade. So, this means, Linden Lab is basically prepared to lose many THOUSANDS of Long-Time Residents, over one incredibly STUPID decision. This, will indeed, lead to Second Life's fast approaching demise. And this is simply UNFAIR of LL to do. There's NO REASON Windows 7 Users should be excluded from SL in the near future. Windows 7 based Viewers will do NO HARM to SL or it's servers!

ALLOW Firestorm to leave a Legacy Windows 7 Version of their viewer for us "Senior" Residents to use.... PLEASE!.

After almost 12 years as a successful Resident, I really can't deal with or imagine being forced off SL because of something like this. It is beyond sad and hurtful.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

8 minutes ago, Loleeta Lennie said:

Technically, there is no reason LL needs to stop allowing Windows 7 machines to connect to SL. Nothing in that connection will change.

They aren't stopping anyone from using Windows 7. Read the blog post.

[Loleeta Lennie]

1 minute ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

They aren't stopping anyone from using Windows 7. Read the blog post.

From the Blog Post:

"Linden Lab is updating our system requirements to remove Windows 7 from the versions we support. This does not mean that Second Life will stop working on Windows 7 immediately; existing viewers, and possibly some new viewers, should run as well as they did before. However, we will not be testing any viewers on Windows 7, so it is likely that compatibility problems will develop and increase over time."

That is a watered down way to say "Eventually as viewers advance in versions, those that work from Windows 7 will cease to function over time."

So, yes, they will eventually graduate viewer code base to simply stop working for Windows 7 in the future.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

5 minutes ago, Loleeta Lennie said:

From the Blog Post:

"Linden Lab is updating our system requirements to remove Windows 7 from the versions we support. This does not mean that Second Life will stop working on Windows 7 immediately; existing viewers, and possibly some new viewers, should run as well as they did before. However, we will not be testing any viewers on Windows 7, so it is likely that compatibility problems will develop and increase over time."

That is a watered down way to say "Eventually as viewers advance in versions, those that work from Windows 7 will cease to function over time."

So, yes, they will eventually graduate viewer code base to simply stop working for Windows 7 in the future.

It's impossible (cost/time/tech prohibitive) to support every platform in perpetuity, especially a platform everybody knows to be off life-support.

Do you demand Windows XP support as well? If not, why the heck not?

Edited January 10, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Loleeta Lennie]

1 minute ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

It's impossible (cost/time prohibitive) to support every platform in perpetuity, especially a platform everybody knows to be off life-support.

Do you demand Windows XP support as well? If not, why the heck not?

For MANY years after V2 appeared, LL allowed the Legacy Version 1 Viewer to function on the SL servers. Why not allow Windows 7 Viewers to exist for as long as they function? Not hard to do.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

1 minute ago, Loleeta Lennie said:

For MANY years after V2 appeared, LL allowed the Legacy Version 1 Viewer to function on the SL servers. Why not allow Windows 7 Viewers to exist for as long as they function? Not hard to do.

That's what they're doing. They aren't stopping anyone from connecting or stopping TPV developers from supporting Windows 7.

[Qie Niangao]

It is not a good plan to continue running any operating system that doesn't get security updates, especially now. The US election is this year, along with some other recent state-actor antagonism, so any machine anywhere on the internet without current security updates is a target, even more than usual. 

Linux is kind of a big ask for non-techies. Personally I like Win10 and updated (from 8.1) without a glitch when it first came out, but I nonetheless keep a fully up-to-date Ubuntu installation on an ancient PC, mostly for an equally ancient flatbed scanner with no Win10 drivers, for those few times a year I still need a flatbed scanner.

7 hours ago, cheesecurd said:

“Cable OR DSL” as if it’s 2006.

It wouldn't hurt to add Fiber to the list, but "DSL" as a generic term is still very common (not only various flavours of ADSL serving rural areas but also VDSL from the fibre node);  Fibre-to-the-prem is still unavailable in many markets.

[Loleeta Lennie]

1 hour ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

That's what they're doing. They aren't stopping anyone from connecting or stopping TPV developers from supporting Windows 7.

Firestorm Disables older versions per every other new version. Which means at some point, the agreement between LL and Firestorm, will cause Firestorm developers to eventually block the final remaining Windows 7 compatible viewer. That day will happen now. As a Creator, I can't stand the LL viewer. Many others feel the same way. And that will be the day we will be forced off of SL.

[Loleeta Lennie]

26 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It is not a good plan to continue running any operating system that doesn't get security updates, especially now. The US election is this year, along with some other recent state-actor antagonism, so any machine anywhere on the internet without current security updates is a target, even more than usual. 

I highly doubt those pesky "foreign meddlers" care any least bit about Second Life, nor does the US election offer any dangers to users of SL, lol.

[Solar Legion]

Oh for the love of ...

This is what happens when an OS developer decides it is no longer cost effective to keep updating an older version of their software. Yes, this is unfair and I've had personal experience with it but ... Not much we can do about it.

When it is finally stabilized, use ReactOS. If you do not mind the learning curve then swap over to Linux - Manjaro is good enough for beginners as long as you do not mind the 'rolling release' nature of it. And no, not all variants of Linux are difficult to grasp for newer users.

[Qie Niangao]

19 minutes ago, Loleeta Lennie said:

I highly doubt those pesky "foreign meddlers" care any least bit about Second Life, nor does the US election offer any dangers to users of SL, lol.

No, that's not the point. If you're using SL, you're connected to the Internet and that alone is plenty vulnerable enough for an unpatched machine. The risk isn't that they'll ransomware your hard drive -- we should be so lucky that it would be something obvious and local like that. The concern is, rather, that your machine will host bot programs that untraceably disrupt infrastructure or voting machines, or distribute social media propaganda. You'd never know it was happening.