Firestorm v5.0.11

[Oct Oyen]

Quote

No Longer Code-Signed

We have stopped code-signing our windows binary due to costs and lack of benefits. Expect that your antivirus or firewall may warn you that the software is not trusted. If you downloaded it from THIS website, IT IS SAFE.

That's fine, but why does the SL Plugin in Firestorm needs to connect to firestormviewer.org web server? Thanks.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

1 hour ago, Oct Oyen said:

That's fine, but why does the SL Plugin in Firestorm needs to connect to firestormviewer.org web server? Thanks.

well best to ask them in their in world support group.  Not sure whom from their team will see your post.

[Chaser Zaks]

SLPlugin is responsible for running various parts of the viewer such as CEF(Chromium Embedded Framework, which runs the web browser and MOAP), parcel video stream playback, and parcel audio stream playback(I think?).

When you launch the viewer, CEF is launched via SLPlugin to render the login page at http://phoenixviewer.com/app/loginV3/

Information submitted to this address is anonymous, it does submit information for statistical and "Update notice" purposes though. You can find a list of those params at this source line: http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/file/30b299a1d56b/indra/newview/llpanellogin.cpp#l764

A list of parameters that it sends:

• lang - User language
• firstlogin - TRUE if the user is logging in for the first time
• version - Version of the viewer in the format of: sortVersion (BUILD)
• channel - Channel of the viewer
• grid - Grid the viewer is currently trying to log into(EG: Aditi, Agni)
• os - The operating system the viewer is running on
• sourceid - Not entirely sure, possibly the build checksum
• login_content_version - Not sure, possibly the version of the login page the viewer is requesting

An example of the request parameters may look like: ?channel=Firestorm-Releasex64&grid=PyProxy&lang=en&login_content_version=2&os=Linux%204.9&sourceid=&version=5.0.11%20(53634)

The viewer also sends HTTP Requests to the FS website to receive MOTD and blocked viewer information at: http://phoenixviewer.com/app/fsdata/data.xml

There is also a request to http://phoenixviewer.com/app/fsdata/agents.xml to get a list of those involved with the FS support team. This is so they can have the "FS Support badge":

This is purely to protect residents by giving them additional trust that they are listening to a real developer/support member.

It will also retrieve feature tables from the website, This is for the "Default graphics settings" for specific GPUs: http://viewer-settings.firestormviewer.org/featuretable_linux.5.0.11.txt

LSL syntax highlightings are also requested from the server for OpenSim and other grids:

• http://phoenixviewer.com/app/fsdata/scriptlibrary_ossl.xml
• http://phoenixviewer.com/app/fsdata/scriptlibrary_aa.xml

A request is made to http://phoenixviewer.com/app/fsdata/defaults.5.0.11.xml , I assume this is the default settings data and just hasn't been uploaded yet.

There is a request made to get a list of grids that a user may choose to connect to at: http://phoenixviewer.com/app/fsdata/grids.xml

Back before LL said no to identifying viewers, the viewer could use this file, but the code to use it is disabled on LL owned grids: http://phoenixviewer.com/app/client_tags/client_list_v2.xml

Firestorm's source code is watched by me and several other people. If something malicious occurs(Although because various other people in the development group will see, this is very very VERY unlikely to occur as pull request will be denied), people will know. If you wish, you can watch the source change history at http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/

 

As for code signing, code signing basically is like saying "Yes, this was indeed made by so and so and has not been modified in any way". This is only for Microsoft Windows, and costs quite a bit of money for something that can be done for free via the SHA1 keys posted with each download. The only downside is that the free method isn't fully automatic, you must have a program which can calculate the SHA1 key of the installer.

As long as you always download the viewer from http://www.firestormviewer.org/, you will be safe.

 

I hope this answers any questions. If not, you may contact the support group by copy/pasting this into chat and joining the support group: secondlife:///app/group/3a1be8d4-01f3-bc1a-2703-442f0cc8f2dd/about

OR by clicking "Help > Join Firestorm Support" Group from the menu bar.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a FS developer, I am just a viewer/grid aficionado. I like to learn everything about everything, including where specific things are in the viewer. I also like to help people. :3

Edited January 26, 2018 by Chaser Zaks
Additional information

[Anna Nova]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but isn't it the MOST fantastic upgrade ever?

The LOD and Physics additions that Beq made to the editor have been needed since mesh was introduced, and now we have them!  Anyone who makes mesh and uploads it to SL or Opensim benefits hugely!

[Qie Niangao]

This thread reminds me of something pretty tangential: Does Firestorm have a feature like Catznip's "Quick Inventory" Quick Preference?

(That one feature is luring me away from the Linden viewer for the first time ever, really, because it lets me quickly add and remove HUDs and other attachments that are script- or rendering-intensive.)

[Callum Meriman]

4 hours ago, anna2358 said:

The LOD and Physics additions that Beq made to the editor have been needed since mesh was introduced, and now we have them!  Anyone who makes mesh and uploads it to SL or Opensim benefits hugely!

Beq has my eternal thanks for those changes, they are seriously worth their weight in gold pressed Lindens.

It's a seriously handy thing for anyone who makes mesh, obviously - but also any landscaper who likes linking stuff to save LI. Now it's easy to see the linked-up convex hulls physic shapes and adjust things around them so people can freely move.

[Bradford Mint]

12 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

As long as you always download the viewer from http://www.firestormviewer.org/, you will be safe.3

Although I appreciate the sentiment above, that's not entirely true!

As long as there's no DNS poisioning or other similar redirection to an alternate fake site with a malicious payload in the viewer.

Suggest getting a validated public certificate for the site because right now, it doesn't have one so there's no validation that it's not a rogue site via https.

[Oct Oyen]

14 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

I hope this answers any questions. If not, you may contact the support group by copy/pasting this into chat and joining the support group: secondlife:///app/group/3a1be8d4-01f3-bc1a-2703-442f0cc8f2dd/about

OR by clicking "Help > Join Firestorm Support" Group from the menu bar.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a FS developer, I am just a viewer/grid aficionado. I like to learn everything about everything, including where specific things are in the viewer. I also like to help people. :3

Thanks for the insights.

[mikka Luik]

That (LOD info various stuff) tool alone is almost enough to make me change my main viewer. Almost. It is - wanted. And read the comments while installing - good grief (pronounced greef =^^=).

Also nod to @Chaser Zaks. Nice to see actual source laid out in usable form.

 

[Whirly Fizzle]

56 minutes ago, mikka Luik said:

And read the comments while installing - good grief (pronounced greef =^^=).

Yeah, we are getting a lot of hate on http://www.firestormviewer.org/lod-and-the-upcoming-firestorm-release-the-what-and-why/

[Whirly Fizzle]

8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

This thread reminds me of something pretty tangential: Does Firestorm have a feature like Catznip's "Quick Inventory" Quick Preference?

(That one feature is luring me away from the Linden viewer for the first time ever, really, because it lets me quickly add and remove HUDs and other attachments that are script- or rendering-intensive.)

Not yet, but it's coming!
http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/da61002a6da2

[Pamela Galli]

What is quick inventory?

I miss Singularity’s ability to open a single folder in a new window. 

[Qie Niangao]

Just now, Whirly Fizzle said:

Not yet, but it's coming!

Thanks! I'm looking forward to that feature because, on Catznip, it really has changed how I use SL to the benefit of me, everybody who rezzes my avatar, and anyone sharing sim resources with me.

Meanwhile, I gotta say congrats on this new interactive LOD-viewing functionality in the Build Tool -- it is really fantastically useful! I'll never again buy a mesh without assessing its LODs and related statistics.

(I generally set LOD Factor at 2.0 or less and such a short draw distance it hardly matters anyway, so I'm kinda disqualified from having an opinion on what levels should persist across logins.)

[Qie Niangao]

2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

What is quick inventory?

I miss Singularity’s ability to open a single folder in a new window. 

This. I put in it links to my HUDs (mesh head, mesh avatar, several self-scripted tools, etc) and some other attachments that span outfits (e.g., slink feet) so I can add and remove them very quickly.

Of course, it doesn't work so well to add scripts on no-script land where already-attached scripts would keep running, but that land setting is pretty rare and overcome by a brief flight 50m or so above ground level.

[Anna Nova]

13 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Yeah, we are getting a lot of hate on http://www.firestormviewer.org/lod-and-the-upcoming-firestorm-release-the-what-and-why/

Yes, every good thing has a down-side.  I don't like being told what to do either.  I have a term for those who try and make me: <expletive deleted> do-gooders!

It's not hate mail directed at you, but at the idea that the 'developers know best'.  They don't, but they do usually know more.  I suggest you take the revert-on-reload code out.

and before you ask: 3.

Edited January 27, 2018 by anna2358

[LittleMe Jewell]

I haven't had my LOD setting above 4 in years.  Yet, like some others, the rebel in me just really hates being told what I can and cannot do.  If the debug setting allows it to be set higher, then it should be allowed to persist.  

My bigger pet peeve on settings persisting though is the Fly Override.  There isn't currently a way to make that persist across logins, though I don't know if it might be possible with the right code.  My rebel doesn't jump up and down on this one though, since it isn't something that is specifically coded to undo my setting, but more like that is just the way the default code works and something special would have to be written to allow it to persist.

I'm anxiously awaiting the HUD related enhancement that Whirly linked to.  I'd also love it if Firestorm went the Catzip way and gave me more Inventory management features, since Inventory is one of my biggest headaches (and likely the same for many other people).

[Pamela Galli]

20 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

This. I put in it links to my HUDs (mesh head, mesh avatar, several self-scripted tools, etc) and some other attachments that span outfits (e.g., slink feet) so I can add and remove them very quickly.

Of course, it doesn't work so well to add scripts on no-script land where already-attached scripts would keep running, but that land setting is pretty rare and overcome by a brief flight 50m or so above ground level.

I thought at one time Firestorm was able to search “walnut table” to find everything with those two terms, but does not seem to work now. with Singularity I could open the Table folder and search Walnut. Now I usually end up flying around the store to find the table so I know exactly what the table is named so I can find it in inventory.

[Penny Patton]

5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I haven't had my LOD setting above 4 in years.  Yet, like some others, the rebel in me just really hates being told what I can and cannot do.  If the debug setting allows it to be set higher, then it should be allowed to persist.  

The problem is that SL is a superb example of "The Tragedy of the Commons" at work. All the lag you experience, all of the obnoxiously bad load times you experience, the low framerates and absurdly high system requirements that are seen as just a part of the SL experience? All of that is your fault. And my fault. And the fault of anyone who has ever logged in to SL, because we all want to be the exception when it comes to resource use. We all want to use more than everyone else. And if it's just us doing it, how can it hurt? Except it's not just us, it's everyone else, too.

 Let's examine how this applies to the LOD issue. LOD exists to allow more detailed 3D models to be rendered without an enormous performance impact, since when LOD is used as intended, models get less detailed the further they are from you. Someone who actually puts the work in can make these LOD transitions virtually seamless. And it's not difficult! If you know how to make a 3D model then you absolutely know how to make a simpler version of that model, and a simpler version of that simplified model, and so on. All it is is a little more effort.

 But inexperienced, or just plain lazy, content creators instead try to game the system by making a much more detailed large model and cutting out their LOD so the items completely fall apart even at moderate distances. So they tell their customers "Raise your LOD settings in the viewer and it's fixed!" But it's not really fixed, is it? Because now anyone who does that has to pay in the form of drastically reduced performance.

 Well, ok, but how does this fit with the "commons" dilemma? Well, soon, to compete, more and more content creators are gaming the system in this way and spreading the same awful information to their customers. Before too long, it is almost impossible to find content being sold that doesn't require you to crank up LOD and suffer the bad framerates and increased lag that go along with it.This forces everyone to reduce their graphics settings for pay absurd amounts of money to run SL at a level they could have easily experienced on cheaper hardware if content creators weren't telling everyone to crank up their LOD settings.

In the end, we are all affected.

[Beq Janus]

10 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

I thought at one time Firestorm was able to search “walnut table” to find everything with those two terms, but does not seem to work now. with Singularity I could open the Table folder and search Walnut. Now I usually end up flying around the store to find the table so I know exactly what the table is named so I can find it in inventory.

if you search "walnut+table" you will get all items that much both walnut and table as you wanted. It does not work across levels though so you cannot search "walnut+table" and find "dining table" in the "my favourite walnut furniture" folder.

[Pamela Galli]

Oh I just need to put a + ? Yay! Thanks!

Wait,  I don’t understand about across levels.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Pamela Galli

[Solar Legion]

7 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Oh I just need to put a + ? Yay! Thanks!

Wait,  I don’t understand about across levels.

If the item is named Dining Table (or variant) and the folder it is in contains the word Walnut then Walnut+Table will not return that folder or the item.

Put another way: The folder itself is one "level" while the contents are another "level" and the inclusive filter only parses the name of each individual entry. Thus if the item you are looking for only contains one of the two terms, nested in a folder containing the other search term ... Well it just won't show up.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Solar Legion

[Pamela Galli]

Thanks, I just want  to search Walnut +  table and have every object with both those terms show up whatever folder they are in. 

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said:

Thanks, I just want  to search Walnut +  table and have every object with both those terms show up whatever folder they are in. 

you could ask me.. think i have one from you 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Penny Patton said:

[...] But inexperienced, or just plain lazy, content creators instead try to game the system by making a much more detailed large model and cutting out their LOD so the items completely fall apart even at moderate distances. So they tell their customers "Raise your LOD settings in the viewer and it's fixed!" But it's not really fixed, is it? Because now anyone who does that has to pay in the form of drastically reduced performance.

The Build Tool feature showing how an object degrades across LODs shows prospective buyers the quality of the mesh before they buy.

Unfortunately, I think we can be pretty sure this won't bring enough pressure on creators to make a difference. As we know (see other recent threads) folks are still willing to buy no-mod products when they can see the warning label right on the tin. But we also don't know that creators will feel much pressure from this decision to make ultra-high LOD Factor settings ephemeral.

We now know, however, that there shall be much fussing to the viewer developers.

[Beq Janus]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Unfortunately, I think we can be pretty sure this won't bring enough pressure on creators to make a difference.

It's a start at least. We have some improvements to the tools that help both creator and customer, and we have some stronger messages about what is appropriate in content design, but as you rightly say, on its own, it may not change things. However, with Linden Lab saying that they will follow our lead, along with other third-party viewers, the direction this is heading is very clear. 

During the next 12 months, Linden Lab is expecting to overhaul mesh accounting and possibly the LOD algorithm to penalise content that does not add to the user experience. None of us knows where this is going yet. @Oz Linden made it clear in a recent meeting that they will be looking closely at how to encourage better content (and to penalise/discourage poor content.) The Lab will spend time in the first 3 months of this year to evaluate various options before taking it further. There is a message in this to the content creators who regularly bypass effective LOD design for whatever reason - the time for this is coming to an end. There are lots of people willing to help educate and encourage. Start to learn about low poly design techniques, look at the use of normal maps and materials to efficiently add small detail (to all LOD models), understand fully how Mesh works in Second Life and by the time the changes are released you'll be producing awesome content that will enhance our worlds.