Casper and their "fantastic" support

[Aurora Starchild]

Hello everyone,

Recently, I've been having issues with delayed deliveries from a few stores where I purchased items through Casper vendors. I decided to check it in with the CasperVend support group and asked a simple, logical question: "Is there something with CasperVend now? I'm not getting a delivery". To my surprise, a moderator responded by threatening me, saying that I was breaking the group's rules.

Specifically, they mentioned:

Quote

"3. You MUST NOT, unless explicitly agreed with CasperTech staff, ask for help for devices not owned by the avatar you are using, even if you happen to also own the same product."

- On which I specified that I asked about CasperVend service availability, not a specific merchant or a store.
- And got replied that "It's not an excuse"

After receiving such an unhelpful response to my question — a question that could have been answered with a simple yes or no. I decided to open a support ticket. In the ticket, I inquired about the delays in deliveries and requested CasperVend to conduct a discussion with the moderator who had responded aggressively instead of providing a straightforward answer.
Not only did I receive a response stating that there were no issues, but I was also kicked out of the support group and accused of breaking their rules. I found these accusations unacceptable, as I am very familiar with the rules, and my question was phrased in a way that did not violate 3rd rule in any manner.

Therefore I replied with a clarification:

Quote

 

My question was clear, about availability of the CasperVendor system, not any certain vendor or merchant. 

The question "Is there something with CasperVend now?" based on assumption "I'm not getting a delivery"

So the rule is clear, I have not asked for help with any devices that is not owned by me, I asked if the CasperVend system up and running correctly, since basing on my experience it seemed like it does not, because I have gotten a delay on delivery. Therefore, this group kick was issues incorrectly and I consider myself wrongfully accused, since I have never asked for "for help for devices not owned by the avatar you are using".

I expect an invite back to join the group. Until asking questions about CasperVend availability in a CasperVend support group considered breaking of rules.

 

After which instead of getting an answer from someone, I've got an answer from someone else that has nothing but saying "Contact the store owner", even though the discussion by it's end was all about me being accused of breaking rules (which I never did)  and wrongfully kicked from a group. So I'm still not sure how a question about CasperVend system itself, that does not mention any merchant or third-parties could get me accused of breaking the rules.

I've been a good user of CasperVend system as a merchant on two stores for over 5 years, and that kind level of support I get? I understand that Casper got bought by Linden Lab, but shouldn't that make them more user-friendly and at very least stick to their own rules? Maybe some Linden would see that post and tell Casper to behave better towards loyal customers.

That's not a flame posting at all, even though I feel awful that a product I used for long having such "support", now I will have to leave them as a merchant since I really don't want any of my customers have that kind of experience if they message their "support" with an issue.

So please guys, provide me a list of good vendor systems in your opinion bellow, I will be happy to try them out as a replacement, preferably with good support that does not accuse people for nothing! 

[Qie Niangao]

I kinda think you were posting in a group that should have been more explicit about its intent: it's apparently not intended to support customers of the vending equipment, but rather customers of CasperVend—that is, owners of that equipment.

Now that CasperVend is owned by the Lab, buyers are their customers, too.

So they really should have a support group for buyers, and that should probably remain separate from support for owners because those two groups will see different problems at different times with quite different information about what's going on. They'll also probably need different kinds of interaction in the support process. It would be inefficient for either group to get communications appropriate for the other.

 

[discussionbot]

1 hour ago, Aurora Starchild said:

So please guys, provide me a list of good vendor systems in your opinion bellow, I will be happy to try them out as a replacement, preferably with good support that does not accuse people for nothing! 

In answer to your question, I highly recommend LOW Industries and MD Labs vendor systems. I personally switched to LOW Industries due to the simplicity, but if you want more there's the other one. Excellent products with great support, some of my favourite larger stores recently switched to MD Labs too. 

LOW Industries – Technologies for Second Life (low-industries.com)

MD Labs – Scripts & more for Second Life (mdlabsonline.com)

[Aurora Starchild]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I kinda think you were posting in a group that should have been more explicit about its intent: it's apparently not intended to support customers of the vending equipment, but rather customers of CasperVend—that is, owners of that equipment.

Now that CasperVend is owned by the Lab, buyers are their customers, too.

So they really should have a support group for buyers, and that should probably remain separate from support for owners because those two groups will see different problems at different times with quite different information about what's going on. They'll also probably need different kinds of interaction in the support process. It would be inefficient for either group to get communications appropriate for the other.

 

Yeah, I totally understand the separation between merchant support and users support, though I guess the question about current state of the system falls under both categories. I really see no point creating a whole support ticket when it's just a temporary server hiccup. Therefore I think the moderator that anyway answering merchants (which I am as well) could've just said "servers are fine everything works as expected" (in perfect scenario) or just a simple "Yes", instead of toxicity and threats.
 

After all I didn't asked for a re-delivery from a certain store, or question items quality. I totally understand why support would use that rule when such questions asked. I asked about their own system stability, a general question that both, merchants and users might ask. 

 

Edited June 6 by Aurora Starchild

[Aurora Starchild]

Thank you! I will be sure to check both of that solutions, I have heard about MD and even have seen a few vendors at lelutka store using them.
I wonder why many big stores switched though, surely can't be due to support 😏

[Alwin Alcott]

nvm.

 

better sit on my hand for a minute.

lets try to get SL support at IMVU issues, or blame LL for downtime on FB.

Edited June 7 by Alwin Alcott

[Kimpa Tammas]

Check out there for sale system alternatives: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Vendor_systems_comparison

[Casper Warden]

Hi everyone.

As you may be aware, CasperTech continues to operate pretty much as we always have, with the same team.

Our team is not large enough to handle general queries from anyone. We can support our customers (our merchants), and that is our focus.

99% of the time, if a store isn't delivering, it's because the merchant has removed their dropbox or they only have one dropbox and their region is down, stuff like that. We simply do not have the resources to answer endless support requests from end buyers about why their items aren't being delivered.

Of course, if you are a CasperTech merchant and you are having trouble with your stuff, we are 100% happy to help, always, and you'll find that you get support very quickly.

To respond to the specific question - "Is there something with CasperVend now? I'm not getting a delivery"

There is absolutely no way that we can answer this question. There could be any number of things wrong that only the merchant can know. 

Please, if you have an issue with a store, contact the merchant. They can come to us if they need help.

TL;DR: We have these rules in place so that we can effectively focus our support efforts on those whom we are here to serve, that is, our merchants. It's a critical part of how we have been able to remain in business (prior to the LL acquisition) for many years longer than any other system. We clearly state these rules when you join our support channel.

Edited June 7 by Casper Warden

[Paul Hexem]

34 minutes ago, Casper Warden said:

There is absolutely no way that we can answer this question.

Wait. Are you saying you don't know when your own back end systems are having issues?

No system ever has 100% uptime, not ever. 99.9 maybe, but 100% is physically impossible.

It's one thing to say "Our system is operating normally, your issue is with the merchant.", it's another entirely to say you can't possibly answer the question.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

40 minutes ago, Casper Warden said:

There is absolutely no way that we can answer this question.

Wait. Are you saying you don't know when your own back end systems are having issues?

Casper explained that the merchants use a "box" for deliveries. (I assume that it is like pre-marketplace.) If the "box" is offline, or the region where the "box" is if offline, then delivery will fail.

CasperTech can't know about everyone's "box"! (That's not the CasperTech "back end system".)

 

[Casper Warden]

28 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

It's one thing to say "Our system is operating normally, your issue is with the merchant.", it's another entirely to say you can't possibly answer the question.

We have extensive monitoring in place, naturally, to detect issues with our backend systems.

But an item not delivering, while it *could* be an issue with the system, is much more likely to be a result of a merchant misconfiguration.

Either way, we need the merchant to contact us in order for us to investigate the issue. We cannot efficiently respond to end buyers, who wouldn't have the access needed to check the config.

[Sparkle Bunny]

18 hours ago, Aurora Starchild said:

Thank you! I will be sure to check both of that solutions, I have heard about MD and even have seen a few vendors at lelutka store using them.
I wonder why many big stores switched though, surely can't be due to support 😏

A bunch of stores switched around the end of February, due to other stuff:

 

[animats]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

CasperTech can't know about everyone's "box"! (That's not the CasperTech "back end system".)

The underlying problem is that the actual delivery is via an llGiveInventory, which doesn't return a status.

If you go to a CasperVend redelivery terminal, you should be able to get the item re-delivered.

[Rowan Amore]

Then it seems as if a simple, "no, we aren't aware of a problem with our system at this time" would have been the correct response.  The person asking could then delve into what else could be wrong.

[CaithLynnSayes]

I just wanna say, i'm in that group and i saw that interaction. You should be a politician. I often see people distort facts, but you are rather good at it. I don't want to stir up some drama (i do, but, well, you know. The rules and all) But you're being slightly dishonest here.

[Casper Warden]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Then it seems as if a simple, "no, we aren't aware of a problem with our system at this time" would have been the correct response.  The person asking could then delve into what else could be wrong.

If that was what had been asked, then that is the reply that would have been given.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Casper Warden said:

If that was what had been asked, then that is the reply that would have been given.

I have only the OP's word on this, obviously, but it seems that that is exactly what was asked.

23 hours ago, Aurora Starchild said:

I decided to check it in with the CasperVend support group and asked a simple, logical question: "Is there something with CasperVend now? I'm not getting a delivery".

 

Edited June 7 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Luna Bliss]

Casper became a ghost....

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

49 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Casper became a ghost....

Casper became too big --- like the tech companies out there.  I did notice a few stores going to other vendor system and kicking Casper to the kerb!

[Rowan Amore]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:17 PM, Aurora Starchild said:

simple, logical question: "Is there something with CasperVend now? I'm not getting a delivery". To my surprise, a moderator responded by threatening me, saying that I was breaking the group's rules.

 

1 hour ago, Casper Warden said:

If that was what had been asked, then that is the reply that would have been given.

She asked if something was up with the system in general.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Casper became a ghost....

But not a very friendly one, apparently?

[Paul Hexem]

5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Casper explained that the merchants use a "box" for deliveries. (I assume that it is like pre-marketplace.) If the "box" is offline, or the region where the "box" is if offline, then delivery will fail.

CasperTech can't know about everyone's "box"! (That's not the CasperTech "back end system".)

Sure, but there's a back end remote server handling the communication between the the box and terminal, which is 100% their system.

 

4 hours ago, Casper Warden said:

We have extensive monitoring in place, naturally, to detect issues with our backend systems.

But an item not delivering, while it *could* be an issue with the system, is much more likely to be a result of a merchant misconfiguration.

Either way, we need the merchant to contact us in order for us to investigate the issue. We cannot efficiently respond to end buyers, who wouldn't have the access needed to check the config.

You're really bad at this.

 

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Then it seems as if a simple, "no, we aren't aware of a problem with our system at this time" would have been the correct response.  The person asking could then delve into what else could be wrong.

Bingo.

 

2 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I just wanna say, i'm in that group and i saw that interaction. You should be a politician. I often see people distort facts, but you are rather good at it. I don't want to stir up some drama (i do, but, well, you know. The rules and all) But you're being slightly dishonest here.

You said that much more politely than I would have.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Sure, but there's a back end remote server handling the communication between the the box and terminal, which is 100% their system.

 

You're really bad at this.

 

Bingo.

 

You said that much more politely than I would have.

I wish you'd contribute more often!

[Paul Hexem]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wish you'd contribute more often!

If I did I'd be suspended more.

[Qie Niangao]

19 hours ago, Casper Warden said:

Either way, we need the merchant to contact us in order for us to investigate the issue. We cannot efficiently respond to end buyers, who wouldn't have the access needed to check the config.

I don't know the ground truth of this particular situation (and it kinda feels like none of my business) but this idea that the vending device-seller has no role in support of the end buyers would leave open an enormous gap practically inviting competing device-sellers to simply take the business away. Surely a major differentiator in the market for vending devices must be how much they reduce the burden on merchants, including the need to support the vending process itself. It just can't be the intended meaning, although I'm at a loss how else to parse it.

It might be productive to come up with a troubleshooting procedure through which end-buyers could be led that gets them what they were trying to purchase with the least possible friction to them and to the merchant. I suppose the details of what goes wrong may vary slightly from one vending device to another, but I bet we could devise a template that would be useful, if we tried.

• As @animats suggested above, one endpoint of the process is a successful redelivery; depending on how the buyer first noticed trouble and how the process unfolds there may be steps before and after a redelivery attempt.
• Ultimately the buyer may end up needing to contact the merchant, and the vending device should make that frictionless and standardized for the benefit of both buyer and merchant—but any outcome that involves the buyer contacting the merchant is to be avoided: at that point nobody is delighted.

20 hours ago, Casper Warden said:

But an item not delivering, while it *could* be an issue with the system, is much more likely to be a result of a merchant misconfiguration.

Yeah, see, that's a few steps short of root cause. Why did the merchant misconfigure their vending device(s)? What is wrong with the design of that configuration interface that such a problem can ever arise?

For all I know, competitors may be doing a lot already, but I'm getting the sense there's room for vending device sellers to step up to the challenge. As long as the Lab fails to integrate in-world and Marketplace commerce, CasperVend has no special advantage.