So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

Hate to open up a potential can of worms, but I've gotta ask... What's defined as an "adult activity"? Because there's been people doing definitely sexualized spanking RP with child avatars for years while hiding behind the fact that people spank their RL kids to claim it's not sexual.

That's quite the can alright.

[Stephanie Misfit]

1 minute ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

Hate to open up a potential can of worms, but I've gotta ask... What's defined as an "adult activity"? Because there's been people doing definitely sexualized spanking RP with child avatars for years while hiding behind the fact that people spank their RL kids to claim it's not sexual.

I'd just be reporting that if I were aware of it, and letting LL sort it out. But the fact that you say sexualised spanking RP indicates that it would be an adult activity. I doubt many regular kid avatars would want SL parents who engage with them in that manner, and someone who takes on a parental role in SL who wants to do that, well that's just a red flag.

[Theresa Ravenheart]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, actually, they are not, or have generally not been treated as such in the past. "Adult" means (and I quote with emphasis added) "photorealistic nudity." In practice, non-sexual nudity has generally been permitted in Moderate areas.

And the fact is that there are Moderate-rated nude beaches. Quite a few of them, actually.

In theory, a child avatar should be able to go to one of these. They just wouldn't be allowed to be nude themselves.

I'm confused, you just said that genitals, in the past, have not been considered "adult" content. But in the same breath you said, "adult" is photorealistic nudity. How do you have photorealistic nudity without genitals?! The fact that kid avatars cannot be naked any more, means they should not be around with anyone with exposed genitals of any kind. Per the updated terms: 

• Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.
  
  So any form of nudity is now adult content.

Edited May 4 by Theresa Ravenheart

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I need a Cliff Notes summary of the last 70 pages, please.

1. No child avatars in A regions

2. Modesty layers must not be removable and should cover the crotch and female nipples

3. Compliancy is the responsibility of the adult using the child avatar.

4. There is no set definition of what constitutes an adult.  Edge-cases decided by individual region owners or AR and let Governance decide.

What else happened in the last 70 pages?

[Stephanie Misfit]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

I'm confused, you just said that genitals, in the past, have not been considered "adult" content. But in the same breath you said, "adult" is photorealistic nudity. How do you have photorealistic nudity without genitals?! The fact that kid avatars cannot be naked any more, means they should not be around with anyone exposed genitals of any kind. Per the updated terms: 

• Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.
  
  So any form of nudity is now adult content.

Child avatars are going to have to be careful in moderate sims, it would seem. Makes me wonder why the restriction was not made to keep them in G sims only. Lots of nudity in moderate sims, even if you just go shopping.

[Vivienne Schell]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, actually, they are not, or have generally not been treated as such in the past. "Adult" means (and I quote with emphasis added) "photorealistic nudity." In practice, non-sexual nudity has generally been permitted in Moderate areas.

And the fact is that there are Moderate-rated nude beaches. Quite a few of them, actually.

In theory, a child avatar should be able to go to one of these. They just wouldn't be allowed to be nude themselves.

The V. and the P. are pretty much "photorealistic". But it´s easy to figure out. Someone will certainly AR the accounts which run child avis at such a location and if the child avi does not return...

[Istelathis]

1 minute ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

What else happened in the last 70 pages?

I've got ya covered

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

I'm confused, you just said that genitals, in the past, have not been considered "adult" content. But in the same breath you said, "adult" is photorealistic nudity. How do you have photorealistic nudity without genitals?! The fact that kid avatars cannot be naked any more, means they should not be around with anyone exposed genitals of any kind. Per the updated terms: 

• Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.
  
  So any form of nudity is now adult content.

Thank you!

You've just answered my question: I didn't see that. That clearly means that child avatars can not  go to a nude beach, even if it is "Moderate."

(But I'll still note that it's possible, apparently, to have a Moderate-rated nude beach. I.e., nudity as such is not just "Adult.")

[Theresa Ravenheart]

10 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Child avatars are going to have to be careful in moderate sims, it would seem. Makes me wonder why the restriction was not made to keep them in G sims only. Lots of nudity in moderate sims, even if you just go shopping.

I totally agree and I think they should not be allowed on moderate land either, not a place for child avatars. 

Edit: I wrote Mature land, brain is beyond fried lol

Edited May 4 by Theresa Ravenheart

[Coffee Pancake]

10 minutes ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

Hate to open up a potential can of worms, but I've gotta ask... What's defined as an "adult activity"? Because there's been people doing definitely sexualized spanking RP with child avatars for years while hiding behind the fact that people spank their RL kids to claim it's not sexual.

They haven't told us what constitutes a valid modesty layer, there is no way you're getting any official word on spanking huds.

good luck!

[Arwyn Quandry]

6 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

I'd just be reporting that if I were aware of it, and letting LL sort it out. But the fact that you say sexualised spanking RP indicates that it would be an adult activity. I doubt many regular kid avatars would want SL parents who engage with them in that manner, and someone who takes on a parental role in SL who wants to do that, well that's just a red flag.

To be clear, *I* consider it sexualized and don't think there's any reason to be spanking children, real or fake, but there's some pretty ardent folks who will swear up and down that it's not sexual. Hopefully LL puts a foot down on it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

The V. and the P. are pretty much "photorealistic". But it´s easy to figure out. Someone will certainly AR the accounts which run child avis at such a location and if the child avi does not return...

Yes, Theresa's post highlighted the important bit with regard to the presence of child avis there.

But . . . again . . . nudity in general is pretty common in Moderate areas, so what @Stephanie Misfit says above is true: child avatars are going to have to be a little careful in some Moderate-rated places.

That's maybe unfortunate, because it muddies the waters a bit.

[Rathgrith027]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This obsession is concerning, are the naked kid avatars in the thread with us now?

This whole *****show reminds me of that bit from Spongebob with the Realtor.

"He's a pedo, She's a pedo, they're a pedo - I'm a pedo! Are there any other pedos I aught to be aware of!?"

The allegation that someone is a kiddie diddler being slung around like mud is a  insult to people like me and countless others, who are survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Treat the allegation with the weight it *****ing deserves.

Edited May 4 by Rathgrith027

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

They haven't told us what constitutes a valid modesty layer, there is no way you're getting any official word on spanking huds.

good luck!

I see the announcement now....

................. LAB GAB TALKS SPANKING HUDS

[Anna Salyx]

7 minutes ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

I'm confused, you just said that genitals, in the past, have not been considered "adult" content. But in the same breath you said, "adult" is photorealistic nudity. How do you have photorealistic nudity without genitals?! The fact that kid avatars cannot be naked any more, means they should not be around with anyone exposed genitals of any kind. Per the updated terms: 

• Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.
  
  So any form of nudity is now adult content.

I'd not say that this reclassifies "any form of nudity" as adult content.  No, it's more that the new TOS language carves out a specific and narrow rule that child presenting avatars and locations with expected and/or encouraged nudity cannot commingle: IE not at a M rated nude beach even where no other adult activity is expected or encouraged. 

[Arwyn Quandry]

I'd hate to be a child avatar content creator right now. They must be sweating. Two months to figure out what LL wants or else their whole community gets the ban stick. That's some real pressure.

Edited May 4 by Arwyn Quandry
accidentally a word

[Leslie Trihey]

9 minutes ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

I totally agree and I think they should not be allowed on Mature land either, it has it in the name, not a place for child avatars. 

Good lucky denying a bunch of people access to most of the mainland and the majority of the grid. Public moderate is also considered pg-13.

Edited May 4 by Leslie Trihey

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

I've been a parent in sl since 2016 to three daughters and I think the new rules are a good thing. My eldest two were child avis when they first joined our family and my youngest daughter is a zooby animesh baby. Our one eldest daughter who is still with our family now uses an adult avi. Before both girls joined our family, my husband and I sat down with them to have a discussion about rules and boundaries we expected them to follow. They wanted to present as a child so they were going to be treated as children. They were to dress appropriate for their age, adult sims were off limits and we were to go with them if they needed to go shopping or wanted to go somewhere. Our family home was on a moderate sim, they had their own bedroom and there was no adult furniture on the premises. Our family home has always been a safe space for our entire family. We were strict and some might even consider us prudish from what I have read through in this discussion.

My normal sized avatar is what one would consider petite in height by sl standards since I am around 5'9 with heels on. My family at times will change into petite avatars, recently we have all picked up dinkie avatars due to the Fantasy Faire, and I even wander around as a cat at times.

So I have a personal interest in these new rules and I think they are a good thing. I think clarification is needed from LL as has been discussed, but I still think they are a good thing. Just as I think this discussion has been a good thing because of the feedback being provided to LL. It is nice they have made it clear they are reading what is being said here.

I really do feel that LL are trying to protect those who want to present as children in sl, not punishing them. I can appreciate how some feel the frustration from putting money and time into an avatar they will have to change. Staying calm and not jumping to conclusions might be the best thing to do for now. Just my point of view of course.

[Theresa Ravenheart]

5 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:

I'd not say that this reclassifies "any form of nudity" as adult content.  No, it's more that the new TOS language carves out a specific and narrow rule that child presenting avatars and locations with expected and/or encouraged nudity cannot commingle: IE not at a M rated nude beach even where no other adult activity is expected or encouraged. 

But it does reclassify "any form of nudity" as adult content now per LL's new terms. It doesn't matter if the Sim is M or not, they cannot go to A land, and if there is any nudity on M land, child avatars may not be present per the updated terms we all signed.

[Vivienne Schell]

3 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

This whole *****show reminds me of that bit from Spongebob with the Realtor.

"He's a pedo, She's a pedo, they're a pedo - I'm a pedo! Are there any other pedos I aught to be aware of!?"

The allegation that someone is a kiddie diddler being slung around like mud is a  insult to people like me and countless others, who are survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Treat the allegation with the weight it *****ing deserves.

Sorry, but pedophelia, which Linden Lab adresses here, includes children (here:child avatars) by default. If Linden Lab were determined to oust all of you a**players they could and they would do it. They do not want to, instead they count on the a**players common sense and cooperation. It´s pretty simple: Follow the new guidelines instead of complaining on them and you are safe and everyone around you is safe. The more you complain and whine on the relatively moderate changes the less friends you will have in the near future.

[Stephanie Misfit]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yes, Theresa's post highlighted the important bit with regard to the presence of child avis there.

But . . . again . . . nudity in general is pretty common in Moderate areas, so what @Stephanie Misfit says above is true: child avatars are going to have to be a little careful in some Moderate-rated places.

That's maybe unfortunate, because it muddies the waters a bit.

The moderate region thing is covered to an extent in the FAQ, in these 2 sections. Sounds like it might be a wise move for child like avatars to swap to another avatar before entering M shopping regions.

Q: I am a child avatar in SL. How do I shop for anything, when many of the popular stores for furniture, AOs, gestures, etc. have both regular and adult versions in their Moderate rated store?

A: As stated above, child avatars cannot engage or participate in the use of adult versions of such content. It may be best to create an outfit with a non-human or non-child human persona to run errands such as shopping, such as any of the default Second Life avatars, robots, et cetera.

Q: If someone is walking through a region wearing exposed genitalia and walks past me (a child avatar), will I be in trouble if someone takes a picture and reports me?

A: No, our investigative process can determine accidental exposure. Again, child avatars should not be engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected. The presence of adult content does not warrant the expectation of use.

[Rathgrith027]

4 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Good lucky denying a bunch of people access to most of the mainland and the majority of the grid. Public moderate is also considered pg-13.

Seconded. It would just exacerbate the underlying issue of this, where Linden Lab provides no guidelines worth a damn for the child avatar policy, and would put petite adults, GNC and other avatar groups (even those like Anime or hell, at this point, tinies) at grave risk of governance action. At that point, we should just pack up this grand experiment that Philip Rosedale started years ago, because that would probably at least, piss off a third of our userbase.

 We only recently got our asses out of a population decline. This scandal isn't helping matters. Let's not dig a deeper grave.

[Anna Salyx]

1 minute ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

But it does reclassify "any form of nudity" as adult content now per LL's new terms. It doesn't matter if the Sim is M or not, they cannot go to A land, and if there is any nudity on M land, child avatars may not be present per the updated terms we all signed.

I, respectfully, disagree.  So long as simple nudity is allowed, even encourage if you will, on M rated land it is not "adult activity" in the context being discussed, which usually involve conduct of a more, shall we say, physical nature between consenting adult presenting avatars. The narrow case of child presenting avatars not being allowed in places where nudity is encouraged and/or expected (nude beach) does not make that "adult" content or activity per se in the context being discussed. A fine line perhaps, but it's a line just the same.  It's..... adult activity adjacent, at best. it's mature content to be sure, R as opposed to X if you will.  That's all my take is at least.

[Kathlen Onyx]

23 minutes ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

I'm confused, you just said that genitals, in the past, have not been considered "adult" content. But in the same breath you said, "adult" is photorealistic nudity. How do you have photorealistic nudity without genitals?! The fact that kid avatars cannot be naked any more, means they should not be around with anyone with exposed genitals of any kind. Per the updated terms: 

• Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.
  
  So any form of nudity is now adult content.

A child avi cannot and should not be in the presence of naked avi's EVER. and yes that is adult activity.  The TOS clearly states it.

[SamathaStarr]

It's getting to be nothing but Nazi Crap, First avatars are made to be average height of 7 foot tall, then you are told if you are under that Height or of Normal Real Life Height, You can be banned for Being too child like and dressing acting adult,

I personally Know Adult film stars and models that are Only 4'10" tall, I know Tons more people in everyday work that are between 18 and 80 years of age . Mothers. Fathers. Grandmothers and Grandfathers that are not even 5 foot tall, and yet we on SL are being Judged by out Height and Shapes.

I personally dated a 22 year old woman when I was 21 , And she was barely 5'1" tall, and Was more flat chested than I was.

And yet, SL and LL is defining us by our size and shape,

 

This is just more communist Nazi Crap.

I'm only 5 foot 3 inches tall myself . 

And if I am in a club full of 7 Foot tall avatars I will look like a child next to them, And I'm being told I have to change My Avatar I worked on for months to get right, Spent Tons of Real Life money to get clothing Bodies, Hair and everything I needed to put together look that I like and is close to my RL size.

Total BS, Bigotry and Bias based on a community of Ignorance and Bigotry. 

Just another Sad, Sickening, Disgusting example of the small mindedness of The so called Modern Society .

I refuse to be Dictated to,

I am a Non Conformist , 

And I will not change who I am for your Bigoted Standards.