LittleMe Jewell Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, Sparkle Bunny said: Zooby babies are locked down tightly in terms of Zooby having to approve any clothes, skins, or other add-ons; you literallly can't use anything that isn't in their store hud. So Zooby babies have no genitalia and never will. The system has been designed to make it impossible. If I were in the child av business I would be looking to move to a similar model, not unlike the old TMP one. It's very annoying for users and third-party creators, but probably their best option at this point. I don't get the impression that "no genitals" is enough for any child/baby -- modesty layers must be there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Bunny Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (I actually do have to go and disable access to Adult regions for my toddler av now. It was only enabled in the first place so he could go get Advent calendar gifts from a purportedly family-friendly RP store I had better not name.) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shireena1 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Ok, I read most of the blah on here, I'm guessing a pg cuddle chair I have on my G rated mainland is ok? Sort of makes me want to move to an adult rated sim 🙃 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said: I would assume what teen grid had: That is so terrible looking 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Please stop posting, I wanna log in to Second Life 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 13 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: 4. There aren't enough policemen to go around looking for lawbreakers like me. Is not sound advice and not a risk anyone here is prepared to take. Not to mention that in your example the punishment is a fine, here the punishment is summary execution of you and everyone else in the car. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, LittleMe Jewell said: That is so terrible looking Ah, the "good old days" . . . How I really don't miss them. 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser Zaks Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: That is so terrible looking Well it is from 2005. Doesn't have to have exactly what this has, I just went with period correct avatars because I had period correct undergarmets for them. (Actual teen grid stuff! It's in the "character" folder named underpants_trial_male.tga, underpants_trial_male.tga, undershirt_trial_female.tga) As the name implies, Trial Second Life users couldn't remove them, nor could residents on the Teen Grid. Edited May 3 by Chaser Zaks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathgrith027 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tommy Linden said: Hey there! I wanted to take a moment and chime in as the person who oversees our Governance team. I've seen some of you mention concerns over weaponizing the policy. I want to assure you that we are prepared for people who might attempt to use this policy in a less than good hearted nature. We have a lot of internal processes in place not just before we take action on an account, but also as part of our appeals process. We understand that we are human, and some times even we might make mistakes even with our own intentions in the right place. We work hard to ensure that no action is taken without full and proper evidence to support the action. In addition to that, our appeals process ensures that not only does the person who took the action is not involved in the appeal, but that the process itself includes a review from more than one agent as well. Tommy, I appreciate you providing a statement on behalf of the Governance Team, and also appreciate that you take your job seriously. That being said, I have lost a lot of friends to Governance actions before, and all of them have sworn to me up and down, and their avatars whilst in my presence affirm such - that they never engaged in such violations, relating to AP. In recent months, there has been an evidenced uptick in ***** reports, and Coffee Pancake, one of the moderators of /r/SecondLife, and one of the developers on Catznip, says that people reporting being banned has skyrocketed, even before these allegations, and these people swear up and down as well that they never intended to violate the rules, let alone have the idea they were engaging in *****. It's going to take a commitment to fairness and some sort of transparency before I and many others feel comfortable around any Governance agent, and believe me, I have heard that people are honestly afraid. This should not be happening - You and your staff should be seen as people to run to for help, not people to avoid. The only people who should be afraid are the people who know full well they are breaking the rules, and do so evasively or even brazenly, either out of pleasure or blatant disrespect for the social (and legal) contract we as residents sign by joining this platform. All I ask of you, that many ask of you, is that you at least don't respond to every report with the nuclear option. As I said privately to many friends - a slap on the wrist for the little things, a night (or week) in a jail cell for the bigger ones, and the nukes as a last resort (or when legally obligated). Those who are in a gray area should be taken aside to be forwarned and provided corrective options to ensure future compliance, not out back and shot. Edited May 3 by Rathgrith027 9 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: Is not sound advice and not a risk anyone here is prepared to take. Not to mention that in your example the punishment is a fine, here the punishment is summary execution of you and everyone else in the car. Your example, though -- TPing into an Adult area by accident or malicious design by a griefer, and then getting permabanned -- is predicated on the assumption that LL's "investigation" isn't actually going to be an "investigation," but rather a reflex banning. If there is an actual investigation, then it should be clear that you either did so by accident and left immediately, or that you were lured there . . . and left immediately. We are, inevitably, dependent upon LL's good faith in investigating these instances. But that is the case now also. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: The difficulty is that changing to a none child avatar before going to an adult region requires the person to KNOW they are going to one before they go. The Linden viewer does not show ratings on the map, neither does the SLURL web map. It's really easy to go direct from the market place "view inworld" to an adult location - there are lots of stores on adult land that don't sell explicitly adult content. So, that option in the viewer becomes a toggle that gets flipped on and off as needed even for owners of child avatars. An option that needs to be constantly changed is an option that leads to mistakes. It is now against the ToS to arrive at an adult location as a child avatar. Adult verified avatars are also automatically teleported to Adult info hubs under certain conditions, so it's entirely possible that child avatars will inadvertently end up on adult land. Visible and report-able to all, long before they can even see or interact with SL - This was partially why the original rules did not explicitly ban child avatars from A land. There are lots of gotchas and edge cases. It's the "constantly" that bothers me. How often, in the normal course of events, is someone who customarily RPs as a child avatar going to need to switch their preferences in order to visit an adult region? (And I think you only get teleported to an Adult infohub if your preferences are GMA). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said: It's the "constantly" that bothers me. How often, in the normal course of events, is someone who customarily RPs as a child avatar going to need to switch their preferences in order to visit an adult region? (And I think you only get teleported to an Adult infohub if your preferences are GMA). And I really find it hard to believe that someone is going to get permabanned because LL's records show they stood at the landing point of an adult sim for 30 seconds before realizing where they were. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: The Linden viewer does not show ratings on the map, neither does the SLURL web map. It's really easy to go direct from the market place "view inworld" to an adult location When I click 'Inworld store" from the MP, it opens the SLURL map. When I then click 'Visit this location', it pops up a Places Profile window in the viewer, which definitely shows the region type in the lower portion: This is what I got in my viewer when I clicked on the SLURL map (i.e. maps.secondlife.com) from an MP store --- LL Viewer: (and it does show "A Adult" when the location is an Adult region) Edited May 3 by LittleMe Jewell 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 13 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Adult verified avatars are also automatically teleported to Adult info hubs under certain conditions, so it's entirely possible that child avatars will inadvertently end up on adult land. Visible and report-able to all, long before they can even see or interact with SL - This was partially why the original rules did not explicitly ban child avatars from A land. This part is definitely problematic and LL probably needs to ensure that there are never any automatic TPs to Adult info hubs. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Puddles Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, Innula Zenovka said: It's the "constantly" that bothers me. How often, in the normal course of events, is someone who customarily RPs as a child avatar going to need to switch their preferences in order to visit an adult region? (And I think you only get teleported to an Adult infohub if your preferences are GMA). How often do you go shopping, and find yourself in an Adult rated region? Do you even notice when you do? Remember that the giant hitpiece article went out of it's way to target the maker of the Tweenster body (a child avatar).. because it was located on an A-rated region. One of the better known motorcycle shops (with it's daily midnight mania giveaways) is located on A-rated land.. they even SELL child-sized bikes! A large number of Star Wars roleplay regions are located on A-Rated land. Driver's of SL frequently visits Zindra, and is often sponsored by stores located on A-rated land. And that's not even getting into clothing stores that just sit on A-rated land because "oh, I dunno, someone might get naked on a pose stand, better mark it A to be safe" 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said: In recent months, there has been an evidenced uptick in ***** reports, and Coffee Pancake, one of the moderators of /r/SecondLife, and one of the developers on Catznip, says that people reporting being banned has skyrocketed, even before these allegations, and these people swear up and down as well that they never intended to violate the rules, let alone have the idea they were engaging in *****. There has been a corresponding uptick of younger presenting avatars coming to other grids. So much so that in one particular instance, a grid has grown to have one of the largest concurrencies on that platform in a short time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said: But under Terms and Conditions, it does have today's date and a.link to the new policy. I don't think that means they changed ALL THOSE POLICIES (I want that strikethrough text option back! I see that was officially answered (sort of). Of course only one in a hundred people are going to reread all those -- including ME this time as I really don't care (this is an edit) have sort of left the building for now and of course the activates involved were not in my interest column. So for me it didn't matter. I am blogging and doing customer support and that is about it. This, I think is only the second year (2013 was another) that I am not participating with free stuff at the birthday celebration. Really not feeling the love here. Edited May 3 by Chic Aeon adding info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 14 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said: It's going to take a commitment to fairness and some sort of transparency before I and many others feel comfortable around any Governance agent, and believe me, I have heard that people are honestly afraid. This should not be happening - You and your staff should be seen as people to run to for help, not people to avoid. The only people who should be afraid are the people who know full well they are breaking the rules, and do so evasively or even brazenly, either out of pleasure or blatant disrespect for the social (and legal) contract we as residents sign by joining this platform. To be honest, this is the reaction of many avatars when a Linden shows up in sim. I've seen entire sims clear out when a Linden shows up. Oatmeal Linden helped me with a issue a year or so ago. When he TP into the sim, it emptied. Just me and him. I'm sure he noticed it but didn't say anything. 4 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: It's the "constantly" that bothers me. How often, in the normal course of events, is someone who customarily RPs as a child avatar going to need to switch their preferences in order to visit an adult region? (And I think you only get teleported to an Adult infohub if your preferences are GMA). For someone who's account is strictly a child avatar, it probably rarely would need to be touched. But if you switch between multiple avatars, as many accounts do, then you might visit a child store in a general region one moment, then later in the day switch to a Lara or Legacy to visit a store that sells clothing for that body, quite a handful of of stores that sell clothing for adult avatars are in adult regions, so in those cases it could be easy to forget, especially if you weren't used to needing doing that before. Edited May 3 by MissSweetViolet Spelling corrections. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said: To be honest, this is the reaction of many avatars when a Linden shows up in sim. I've seen entire sims clear out when a Linden shows up. Oatmeal Linden helped me with a issue a year or so ago. When he TP into the sim, it emptied. Just me and him. I'm sure he noticed it but didn't say anything. Yes unless you put in a request to buy abandoned land, when a Linden shows up, its best to make yourself scarce 😂 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatrice Voxel Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: This is a good point, as from a legal viewpoint -- I imagine, anyway -- it doesn't make a lot of difference (assuming there is no actual RL minor involved, of course). A "cartoon" depiction of sexualized a*eplay is still illegal in some places, even if there is only one person involved in that depiction. As someone into "pregnancy risk" and motherhood in SL (I am a foster parent in RL, got fingerprints on file with the FBI and everything!) my main concern will not be "is someone modding Zoobies or Zooby furniture to molest the baby" but busybodies freaking out when my avatar, a grown woman, is feeding an infant with a tit exposed. Because that's how breastfeeding works. I am not engaging in any sexual activity with a child, I am taking care of the child as Nature has intended. And I see enough controversy in RL public spaces about how breastfeeding mothers need to 'cover up' or hide themselves away in a bathroom or an office or a broom closet to feed their baby. We don't need to reinforce that kind of thing here. You don't want to look at a mother feeding a child, then simply look away (yes I can see your look-at target). As for filing AR's about inappropriate behavior around a child, please use common sense. Bathing the child, changing diapers, feeding, burping, rocking to sleep... this all happens, and skin to skin contact does occur on occasion, ask any parent with a newborn. If it's not obvious that someone is molesting a baby's private bits, or molesting themselves while holding a child, there should not be any cause for concern. The last thing I want to see is virtual motherhood put back into the 1950's and 1960's, where baby bottles and refrigerated milk was the norm, simply because natural breastfeeding ends up on the taboo list. /rant 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathgrith027 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said: To be honest, this is the reaction of many avatars when a Linden shows up in sim. I've seen entire sims clear out when a Linden shows up. Oatmeal Linden helped me with a issue a year or so ago. When he TP into the sim, it emptied. Just me and him. I'm sure he noticed it but didn't say anything. This is my problem with Linden Lab today. The lack of trust and the overbearing governance policy that is less like a police arrest and more like the Eye of Sauron rm -rf'ing anyone who dares step even remotely close to the line. That same friend from earlier has regailed me with stories of how the LIndens were back in the day. I remember one that actually was a sign of good Governance - and a funny one to boot. They had been at a club, and were minding their own business before the club owner raised a fit over them being a neko, harassing them over it. She files an abuse report, and believe it or not, in short fashion a Linden Lab employee is on station, trying to remedy the situation. The Linden sides with my friend, and the owner? Proceeds to call the linden a racial slur. Club. Gone. Patrons. Kicked. Owner. Banned. Hotel. Trivago. 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, Innula Zenovka said: It's the "constantly" that bothers me. How often, in the normal course of events, is someone who customarily RPs as a child avatar going to need to switch their preferences in order to visit an adult region? (And I think you only get teleported to an Adult infohub if your preferences are GMA). Enough that forgetting to set it back after is a concern. Shopping. Basic shopping. Weekend Sales. Getting demos. Vehicle merchants are a notable risk in their own right, this means that even drivers of SL which mostly operates on mainland and is inherently G rated, can pass though or end on adult .. via a hud that demands permission to automatically teleport and does not require RLV etc. So that person either has to blanket forgo being a child avatar when out and about, or be very careful and spend time flipping back and forth, changing outfits and options. 5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: And I really find it hard to believe that someone is going to get permabanned because LL's records show they stood at the landing point of an adult sim for 30 seconds before realizing where they were. The rule is clear. Quote Entering any Region rated Adult. Residents must change to a non-child or non-childlike avatar to visit Adult rated regions. The child avatar community already lives in fear, as do many queer and gender non conforming groups. There is zero faith or trust in governance. There is no warning, no functional appeal, no one comes back (except for the actual *******s, they have a new account every 3 days and can't be stopped). No one is going to carry on secure in the knowledge that governance will 'get it right'. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 13 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said: I want that strikethrough text option back! It works for me! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, MissSweetViolet said: For someone who's account is strictly a child avatar, it probably rarely would need to be touched. But if you switch between multiple avatars, as many accounts do, then you might visit a child store in a general region one moment, then later in the day switch to a Lara or Legacy to visit a store that sells clothing for that body, quite a handful of of stores that sell clothing fir adult avatars are in adult regions, so in those cases it could be easy to forget, especially if you weren't used to needing doing that before. Aside from the idea that one comes to SL to relax from RL, not have to be aware of even more rules and regulations that are added on a Linden whim. It has reached a point for some, (like me) where it has just become too aggravating and stressful to continue going inworld. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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