Revalue the L$ -> $1US = L$100

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Comparing an SL DJ to a RL DJ..wow!

What next, compare an SL "doctor" to a RL "doctor"?

You're conflating roleplay with someone actually doing work and earning money that gets taxed (again, assuming one is doing real DJing and moving money out of SL).

I can use a better example, though - a creator or team who makes mesh heads/bodies/clothing/mods/what have you and spends weeks (months) doing intense 3D modeling and animating selling items for $1-20 USD in-world where their custom SL and out of SL commissions would cost thousands (in USD) for the same time spent - if anyone actually paid for that. Easier comparison there.

I don't know about revaluing the L, but I do know I've told people to stop spending hours for pennies.

[Rowan Amore]

39 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

Carefully ignoring the fact he has ONE hours work and in the example, every single person at an 80 person event tipped.

We all know no more than 10% of attendees tip at all, and that events rarely run to 80 people.

The cost of hiring a DJ for a real world event is more like $700 US for 3 hours of performance time.

You're still ignoring the fact that if your idea was implemented, people would buy and spend LESS.  

I generally limit my purchase of Ls to 5000L/wk.  Roughly, 20000L a month.  Costs around $90.  I usually spend it all, too.  With 100L/$1, it would cost me over $200 a month.  I can't afford that so I'd buy less Ls and therefore, less merchandise.  

[Coffee Pancake]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You're still ignoring the fact that if your idea was implemented, people would buy and spend LESS. 

That's your opinion, obviously I disagree.

 

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

With 100L/$1, it would cost me over $200 a month.  I can't afford that so I'd buy less Ls and therefore, less merchandise.  

yet your input into the economy would be unchanged...

[Ayashe Ninetails]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You're still ignoring the fact that if your idea was implemented, people would buy and spend LESS.  

I generally limit my purchase of Ls to 5000L/wk.  Roughly, 20000L a month.  Costs around $90.  I usually spend it all, too.  With 100L/$1, it would cost me over $200 a month.  I can't afford that so I'd buy less Ls and therefore, less merchandise.  

I agree with this. I don't think changing the L is the answer. 

It's hard though, because @Persephone Emerald made a great point about inventories going poof, too, so how much do we realllllly want to spend on virtual goods? It's a tricky issue.

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's your opinion, obviously I disagree.

 

yet your input into the economy would be unchanged...

My input might be the same but I'd be less likey to spend that on a fat pack that used to cost me 1500/$7.50 and now costs 4500/$16.50.  I'll just buy one color instead.  I still get the dress.  They only get a small percentage of what they could have received.

Edited April 2 by Rowan Amore

[TheVeryFirst]

 

Prices are already high. If they go up much more I will be looking for another place to play.

LL can say good bye to my two Premium avatars as I will not be able to afford to play here.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

First thought: not everyone here is an American. After various fees for currency exchange, etc., a Canadian dollar actually buys around $L150. Reducing the amount I can buy for a Canadian dollar to 40% means I'll be getting L$60 per dollar.  You can bet that impacts on the number of Lindens I'm buying. These are numbers, arbitrary representations of value, and they don't translate the same way to everyone.

I don't think that fixing inequities in the economy is quite as simple as "let's make money worth more!" SL, for better or worse, is built on a more-or-less free market capitalist system. Yeah, it's true that LL artificially stabilizes L$ currency rate, but creators, I assume, sell items for what they think they can get for them -- which is how a free market system works.

Artificially inflating the value of the currency by more than doubling the cost of L$ is going to suddenly make that US$ 1.00 dress or hair style cost US$2.50. And a free market system predicts, reasonably accurately actually, that that is going to substantially reduce the amount of that product sold. I know, for instance, that I am myself a bit more circumspect about buying even sale items that have increased from a standard L$75 each to L$100. That too is the "psychology" of the market.

Yeah, creators definitely don't make amounts here commensurate with their labour. Even as a photographer and exhibitor, I see that: a really successful exhibition might net me about L$18000 -- about US$72 as things stand now. But that's for probably about 60 to 80 hours of work. And SL photography has expenses and overhead too. I ain't doing this for the money.

But a free market system wasn't designed to address inequities and unfairness. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it actually quite deliberately produces them, because the generation of wealth, not its equitable distribution, is its primary goal. Capitalism produces "winners" by producing even more "losers," and profits are often built on the availability of underpaid labour.

If you want to "fix" the system to ensure that people are being paid reasonable rates for their very real labour -- an entirely laudable goal -- you're not going to do it by tweaking the exchange rate. The market will just adjust to account for that; prices will fall commensurately, or close to, because merchants will lose sales if they don't. You need to overhaul the system entirely.

[Persephone Emerald]

I pay $ 99/ year to ensure my 4 avatars have a virtual roof over their heads and a safe place to unpack and dress.

None of them needs to buy food or gasoline. They don't have to pay for a phone, internet service, auto insurance or any other recurring fees. They don't have to pay for utilities or laundromat fees. They can wear the same clothes over and over without having to wash or mend them. They don't have to pay for medical services or medications. They don't have to pay rent or taxes.

Even though they rarely lift a pixel finger to work, they still get new skin, hair and clothing from time to time. Sometimes they even get free store credit, so they can pick out something nice for themselves.

For the most part, they accept this arrangement without complaint, so I'm not going to spend money on them that I need for my RL expenses.

[Robberinthemuseum]

5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The L$ is in dire need of being revalued.

The high number of 'Linden fun monies' per real USD creates the false impression that small amounts of L$ have more value than they actually present.

1 real money American dollar is worth 100 pennies. 1 Linden dollar isn't even worth that.

L$1000 is not a lot of money, but it looks and sounds like it might be.

L$10,000 .. wow, that's obviously a fortune!!

The difference between L$499 and L$299 is about a fun sized candy bar, you know, the size that isn't fun. But it's psychologically enough to make someone think twice about a purchase.

Did you tip a DJ L$100 for an hours entertainment.

What if the entire crowd, as big as it can be at 80 all people tipped (and we all know most don't tip a bean) L$100. L$8000 !! WOW !! .. US $32 .. that's US $17 after fees and income tax. .. It's a bit yikes once you do the math isn't it.

 

We're selling ourselves short, delivering hand crafted Etsy artistry at prices too cheap for Temu, and complaining about it. All while our core life blood content creators literally starve trying to compete with content farms and piracy.

This needs fixing.

I think maybe you are assuming 1. Everyone is from America and uses dollars and 2. People have a hard time doing basic calculations in their head 🤣. Kidding about number 2. I use Korean won 1000krw = 237  Linden dollars. So I'm good. No changes please. 

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Robberinthemuseum said:

I think maybe you are assuming 1. Everyone is from America and uses dollars

No I'm not.

My problem is with the apparent value of L$ once in SL.

 

[Robberinthemuseum]

4 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

The date people. The date. 🙄

🤷‍♂️ it's April second where I am. 🤣

[Robberinthemuseum]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

No I'm not.

My problem is with the apparent value of L$ once in SL.

 

Exactly my point. If you weren't American this wouldn't be an issue 😆. I regularly pay over 200,000won for dinner. I'm thinking your post is an April fools joke intended to irritate non 미국인

[Coffee Pancake]

13 minutes ago, Robberinthemuseum said:

Exactly my point. If you weren't American this wouldn't be an issue 😆

If they weren't called Linden DOLLARS and American DOLLARS maybe you would have a point.

 

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

problem

I think I've changed my mind, Coffee....

Have you considered the severe hardship your plan would impose on the Sugar Daddies in our world?

[Robberinthemuseum]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If they weren't called Linden DOLLARS and American DOLLARS maybe you would have a point.

 

Of course you're right, about everything, always, especially semantics 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think I've changed my mind, Coffee....

Have you considered the severe hardship your plan would impose on the Sugar Daddies in our world?

Real sugar daddies don't pay with L$

[Robberinthemuseum]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Real sugar daddies don't pay with L$

Yes what are you talking about @Luna Bliss. Everyone knows sugar daddies only restrict themselves to Australian dollars; or sometimes the New Zealand dollar. I have seen them offer up the Jamaican dollar but their favorite for .....reasons, is the Cayman Islands dollar. 

Obviously all should be aligned with the Linden dollar because it's confusing for everyone. 

Edited April 2 by Robberinthemuseum

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

No I'm not.

My problem is with the apparent value of L$ once in SL.

 

There is zero value to L$ once in SL.  Now if you can mail me all my virtual goods or guarantee that the grid will never, ever close then I might be willing to spend what you are suggesting.   Right now I could wake up tomorrow and the grid could have disappeared.  Not likely but it has happened to other grids and they lost everything.

If creators feel that they are not getting paid what they should then they need to either raise their prices and see who buys their products or not do it at all.  No one is forcing anyone to rely on SL for their income source. If they are smart enough to be able to learn multiple programs for creating content,  they are smart enough to find a different income source if they don't feel that they are getting paid enough for the work they put in.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you put a post out there with an argument and then just continue to post one liners to dismiss anyone's opinion but your own.  This will be the only post I contribute to this thread because surely it will become non productive.

Edited April 2 by Kathlen Onyx

[Anna Nova]

Maybe if you can't afford to live from your RL earnings in SL, then you should consider working somewhere else, maybe in RL.  I am not paying any more than the 50 UK that I invest every month, that's all I can afford, and it's all the SL economy is getting from me. The whole enjoyment of SL would cease if I have to consider the exchange rate on everything.  It's sad that you have chosen to make your RL living in this artificial economy, but it's not my fault.

[Ksenia Elcano]

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Did you tip a DJ L$100 for an hours entertainment.

What if the entire crowd, as big as it can be at 80 all people tipped (and we all know most don't tip a bean) L$100. L$8000 !! WOW !! .. US $32 .. that's US $17 after fees and income tax. .. It's a bit yikes once you do the math isn't it.

 

We're selling ourselves short, delivering hand crafted Etsy artistry at prices too cheap for Temu, and complaining about it. All while our core life blood content creators literally starve trying to compete with content farms and piracy.

There is an alternative solution. The Lab could take less of a cut. That's where the real bite is coming from.

As for DJs, they are pirates. They play music they have not licensed and make L$ doing it.

[Evangeline Arcadia]

I have often thought about this topic myself, and sometimes when I'm buying something I do empathise with creators when I remember that I'm buying something for pennies.  I agree there is a false perception of cost because we are naturally inclined to look at the number value, not the monetry value e.g. $L100 sounds like a lot, but isn't in real world value. But on the other hand I think there are a few things to consider. Whilst yes, one can argue that compared to real world  creators should be charging more/the Linden should be revalued, I would play devli's advocate and say the following:

- On the whole anything that is virtual is typically cheaper because you make it once, but sell it multiple times - passive income.  For example if you look at downloadable art resources like .pngs, svgs, or 3D content assets in the real world, the price for the item seems really low, but the artists spends the time making a single product which is then resold many times over, without the artist having to do anything more  The same is true for Second Life content.  And people don't value virtual content in the same way as physical content, and expect to pay less.  I doubt that will change.

- If SL changed the currency value, meaning prices would increase, by a lot, I would expect there would be less sales, as others have already expressed.  So less money being spread around the creators. I would think twice before spending say $L400 on an item compared to $L200. So it could hurt the SL economy.  Sure, people would adjust to the new pricing over time, but at what cost?

I reserve the right to change my mind on any of the above 😁

Despite that, one could argue that well SL is just a nice to have part of life, and so doesn't need to reflect more 'realistic' pricing, it's a 'game' etc. etc. (no 'I'm' not calling it a 'game'!)  - but unfortunately it has become a source of income for people - that's where we get a problem, because anything you do regarding the Linden is going to have repercussions.

And because SL is a passtime/fun to do thing,  for many people I think they are not going to want to spend a lot on it inworld, especially with economies being the way they are at the moment. I know I can't afford to any more - I 've got to consider prioritise RL spending, so I mostly buy at sales, because that's what I can afford.

But then there are a lot of creators who do make good money out of SL - so is there really a problem as it exists?

I think this is complex. SL is built on creativity. The wonderful creativity of others is what makes SL enjoyable. Maybe creativity would go back to how it originally was - just doing it for the love and sharing, rather than trying to make a profit.

 

Edited April 2 by Evangeline Arcadia

[Evangeline Arcadia]

5 hours ago, shireena1 said:

LL would have to rethink stipend as well if they changed the exchange rate of L to USD. I mean if you work it out, at current rates, LL would be paying everyone about 2 or 3 times what it costs to be a paid member, but personally, that could be a good idea! 😁

Or they could just not do that, and reduce the stipend:) I wonder if there would be  a 'Great Stipend Protest of 202x' 😄

[Bree Giffen]

Any major currency changes in SL will have to be done gradually and monitored closely with the possibility of reversing the change. The SL user base might fall off a cliff in response to changes and may never return thus ending Second Life. 

[Evangeline Arcadia]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

If you want to "fix" the system to ensure that people are being paid reasonable rates for their very real labour -- an entirely laudable goal -- you're not going to do it by tweaking the exchange rate. The market will just adjust to account for that; prices will fall commensurately, or close to, because merchants will lose sales if they don't. You need to overhaul the system entirely.

I think I'm inclined to agree that an exchange rate change might not be the solution. This is a virtual world - do we really need to go by real world practices in the same way? Why not try something different, something new, not be bound by old ways of thinking and doing  - but what I don't know😊
☺️

[Jaylinbridges]

9 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

What if the entire crowd, as big as it can be at 80 all people tipped (and we all know most don't tip a bean) L$100. L$8000 !! WOW !! .. US $32 .. that's US $17 after fees and income tax.

I would love to make $17 USD/hr, before any fees and tax!   What a terrible example - just gives the cheapskates more reason to never tip.

Typical DJ in a typical club might get 20 real avatars (not bots) in the club during a set, and 1/2 of them tip 100 L, once, for a 2 hr set.

That is 500L/hr, or about $1.80/hr after fees.  It's one of the worst paying jobs in SL for the effort and skills of a good DJ.  

Edited April 2 by Jaylinbridges