How Far Into Realism Do WE Truly Want To GO?

[elleevelyn]

12 hours ago, Bagnu said:

As it stands, we have a cartoony look in SL. Would we ACTUALLY be comfortable if our SL were fully RL realistic, as if we were watching a movie? I don't know if I would be. Or would we like it more? Any comments on this?

i am a SL neko so in that sense I will always be a cartoon-based character

if by realistic you mean realism then when i found out I can be a neko on SL then I took part of that into my RL. When I wear my neko RL ears to the supermarket I do get some people look at me sideways, so I give them my best neko moue that my SL neko taught me (well the animation creator did ) and they usually smile or laugh back

if by realistic you mean how we react to the advance in SL creator skills. then is some small ways we can hold on to the past, in most other ways we all pretty much move with the times. Which is a realistic approach to take in SL same as in RL. Like I just got the Lel Noel head as a Xmas gift which I will now wear as my everyday. Is better both technically,  and in form, than my previous mesh head, which was better than my mesh head before that,, better in its turn than my Standard head before that

i still hold on to the past in my own way, like my old school neko tail

here is my SL neko self trying to pass myself off as a realistic human 😺

 

 

 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

Our avatars are certainly more realistic today than they were a decade (or two) ago, but the change has been gradual, so any discomfort in perception is minimized.

I don't want to log in one day and have SL look so realistic that the ideas of fantasy and imagination are ruined.  Unless the change is slow and incremental, I would be very uncomfortable pushing a "real life human" around the world and off of cliffs or underwater.  I identity with my avatar strongly enough that I do not want the realism increased. 

I wonder if how we interact with others would change if we all looked absolutely human.  Some people inworld are cruel for fun because "it's a cartoon world and nothing is real."  Would it be harder to be so cruel if you were face to face with what looks like a real life human?

I still say no to more realism.  There are many things people do to their avatars that I simply don't want to see in a more realistic way.

[AmeliaJ08]

31 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I would be very uncomfortable pushing a "real life human" around the world and off of cliffs or underwater

I'm already uncomfortable with cliffs/falling. Has always been my weakness, I get that genuine feeling in my tummy whenever I fall from anywhere high in SL. Has always happened to me, it's not to do with realism since I first remember it happening way back in the 90s playing games like Quake!

The brain is a strange thing, I know I can't be hurt but falling in games always produces a strong physical effect for me.

[Conifer Dada]

I'd be happy with 'fully realistic' if it worked properly without any lag but I guess we're still quite a long way away from that being possible. And even then, if you have a fully realistic human avatar, you could find yourself dancing next to a Snoopy or Spongebob Squarepants avatar. So the next question that needs to be answered is: what would a fully realistic Spongebob look like? Would it look like the original cartoon or would it look like what a real anthropomorphic sponge wearing shorts would look like in real life?

Edited December 17, 2023 by Conifer Dada

[Ceka Cianci]

I don't need or want too realistic..

[Bree Giffen]

I think we can go up to movie realistic. Movies are real but everything is fake and staged. All the people are too good-looking. Too real is disappointing. Even people on social media will distort their images to go from real to ideal. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I think we can go up to movie realistic. Movies are real but everything is fake and staged. All the people are too good-looking. Too real is disappointing. Even people on social media will distort their images to go from real to ideal. 

"I was just in a real police station, and this is much nicer..."

 

[Conifer Dada]

Since I came to SL in 2006 there have been many improvements intended to make the visual experience more realistic. These include:

Windlight environments with shadows - a definite improvement over the previous basic flat lighting.

Mesh - more realistic objects. Whether it's made avatars more realistic depends on the skill of the creator, how the owner adjusts the shape and what skin they use.

Projector lights - more realistic artificial lighting.

PBR - looks promising if there's no downside - e.g. lag.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Conifer Dada

[Rowan Amore]

I just tried a couple of photorealistic skins that were on the weekend sale and I'd have to say no.  I'm sure there are people who love that more realistic look for skins but yikes.  I don't want to see all that in SL.  

[Extrude Ragu]

9 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

Since I came to SL in 2006 there have been many improvements intended to make the visual experience more realistic. These include:

Windlight environments with shadows - a definite improvement over the previous basic flat lighting.

Mesh - more realistic objects. Whether it's made avatars more realistic depends on the skill of the creator, how the owner adjusts the shape and what skin they use.

Projector lights - more realistic artificial lighting.

PBR - looks promising if there's no downside - e.g. lag.

I would put forward that none of these necessarily entail realism. It's perfectly possible to make a cartoony windlight, a cartoony mesh, cartoon style lighting, and stylized PBR textures.

All these do is allow for more creative control than anything else.

[Bagnu]

2 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I don't want to log in one day and have SL look so realistic that the ideas of fantasy and imagination are ruined.

I disagree with you on this. Let's take the example of the "Star Trek" series. Or any fantasy or Sci-Fi movie or series. They are fully live action. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't lose any sense of fantasy or imagination watching them. For me the realism heightens it. I agree with you that some things only work in an intended setting though. Cartoons don't always translate well into realism. I can't imagine the "Road Runner" working at all in a fully realistic setting.

Personally I want my SL to look and feel as if I was actually "beamed" back to the Enterprise during an ion storm, Spock had a beard, and used an "agonizer". I want my SL to be my "Mirror Universe".

But at the same time, I agree that it wouldn't be fair to you, or to any of us if we logged in expecting one thing, and got another.

Once full realism is achieved, I suspect we would have choices. Some regions may be fully cartoon, while others are fully realistic. I can imagine going with you to "meet the Flintstones",  and then popping into "Underworld" for a bite (bad pun, I know). I'm hoping SL will be around long enough for us to have these choices.

[Conifer Dada]

16 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I would put forward that none of these necessarily entail realism. It's perfectly possible to make a cartoony windlight, a cartoony mesh, cartoon style lighting, and stylized PBR textures.

All these do is allow for more creative control than anything else.

Agreed - but they also allow for greater realism if that's what you want.

[Bagnu]

29 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I just tried a couple of photorealistic skins that were on the weekend sale and I'd have to say no.  I'm sure there are people who love that more realistic look for skins but yikes.  I don't want to see all that in SL.  

Each one of has our own personal vision of what we want our AV's to look like. I love the look of that skin on you, but it's YOU that that chooses. Not me, or anyone else for that matter.

Which one is it? Does it come in different skin tones?

[Rowan Amore]

43 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

Each one of has our own personal vision of what we want our AV's to look like. I love the look of that skin on you, but it's YOU that that chooses. Not me, or anyone else for that matter.

Which one is it? Does it come in different skin tones?

It's the Destiny skin from Moccino and comes in 17 tones.  It may look better on a lighter tone.

[JeromFranzic]

18 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

That has nothing to do with SL not using Vulkan, Vulkan isn't some magic wand that will guarantee "photo realistic skin" or anything else, it's just an API used by a render engine to send CPU generated output to a GPU.

You can see games with more realistic skin, running under DirectX, Das Studio managed skin shaders with subsurface scatter shaders over a decade ago, under... Open GL.

Skyrim, is over 12 years old, one of the commonly downloaded mod types are the "anti-metallic bronze skin" fixes, some of which work by DISABLING the subsurface scatter in the skin shaders, that again is under DirectX not Vulkan.

 

I agree. Moving to Vulkan would allow some recent graphical improvements that OpenGL lacks, though. LL is way overdue for that. Also, Vulkan has been ported to different OS's, not just Windows (unlike DirectX).

[JeromFranzic]

dp...

Edited December 17, 2023 by JeromFranzic
i ate some dp balls, sorry :P

[JeromFranzic]

Back on topic... I don't mind trying to be realistic with my avi looks, but then there's this... I've demoed quite a few anthro avis in the past 2 1/2 years since I arrived in SL. This Bladencat mod I found in the MP is my favorite. 

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 12/16/2023 at 7:11 PM, Bagnu said:

I don't mean mirroring our RL selves. I mean having our AV's look real, and our surroundings.

100% more real please in terms of avatar looks.

And this should be the in the SL editor mode. No need for body and head and skin stores; seriously, that model of making an avatar is holding back a far better experience, not to mention how difficult it is for users do modify their look. Give us character editing including body as the default SL experience. If you don't know how to start altering your avatar's look intuitively in a clear and usable UI/UX within 15 seconds, that UX is creating an unnecessary pain point.

Character creation should be default like these examples. Aging should be a slider not some dozen custom BoMs or appliers. And sliders? Old school. Have them but make morphing a face like playing with clay.

Sorry, but if you don't think other character customization blows SL's out of the water, you haven't looked at other games recently.

Avatar customization and end results should be easy for a user to understand and do, just like these images show.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Polenth Yue]

9 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I wonder if how we interact with others would change if we all looked absolutely human.  Some people inworld are cruel for fun because "it's a cartoon world and nothing is real."  Would it be harder to be so cruel if you were face to face with what looks like a real life human?

Judging from examples on the internet of places that insist on real names and photographs, it won't make it harder for people. It'll actually make it easier if they deem the avatar to be the wrong sort of person. Life is a lot nicer as a mushroom.

[Bagnu]

9 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

Judging from examples on the internet of places that insist on real names and photographs, it won't make it harder for people. It'll actually make it easier if they deem the avatar to be the wrong sort of person. Life is a lot nicer as a mushroom.

But what if wouldn't want you in my house because you're a fungus?

[Rowan Amore]

7 Surprising Health Benefits of Mushrooms

1. They Have Cancer-fighting Properties

2. Mushrooms Are Immunity-boosters

3. They Help Lower Cholesterol

4. They're High in B and D Vitamins

5. Mushrooms Have Anti-inflammatory Powers

6. Magic Mushrooms May Help Cancer Patients

7. They Could Help Fight Aging

What's not to love?!  🍄

[Polenth Yue]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

But what if wouldn't want you in my house because you're a fungus?

Some places already ban non-human avatars. That's peanuts compared to having people throw stones at me whilst shouting racial slurs. I don't actual want people treating me here like they do in first life. It's nice to have a break from that sort of realism.

[Orwar]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

What's not to love?!  🍄

   The scent, flavour, and texture. 

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

6. Magic Mushrooms May Help Cancer Patients

Heck, I highly recommend them for anyone (given a proper dose and appropriate psychological state).

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   The scent, flavour, and texture. 

That's how I feel about Brussels sprouts and liver.