I have a question. (rant)

[Sid Nagy]

11 minutes ago, TheVeryFirst said:

 

I don’t know anything about it, maybe someone in the know can comment. But on one store on Marketplace it said, redelivery available for 30 days only. Is it something you can turn on and off, do you need to pay extra for it?

 

Redelivery is an option a merchant can put on or off at the marketplace.
Of course it is not smart to redeliver goods that are no copy.
A 30 days option, I've never heard off. Maybe that merchants only sells the goods for a limited time?

[Katherine Heartsong]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Creators possibly follow the general rule of choosing options: "Do you want it Fast, Cheap, or Good?"

We design types also add you only get two of the three. You can have a design fast and cheap (poor design),  fast and good (expensive), or cheap and good (but slow). Pick your poison.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

We design types also add you only get two of the three. You can have a design fast and cheap (poor design),  fast and good (expensive), or cheap and good (but slow). Pick your poison.

Yep! Oops, I forgot the 2-of-3 rule!

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

My TV is that way too, if I buy a movie via the TV.

All the main stores have a redelivery terminal in them, and customers expect that now it seems, so I hope it's really not as dangerous as you're suggesting. I have quite a bit of stuff for sale not in vendors, and one customer was appalled that I had no redelivery for them.

I can't read the scripts, so I can't judge what is and isn't written in there.
From the cable firm one has the details, adress, phone number etc.. From the vendor merchant I have nothing only a SL name and the overlords that don't mingle in customer affairs.
I just will not grand a stranger access to my money.
MP gives the opportunity and so I stick to the MP.

These Casper vendors I have part of my stuff in with redelivery option...they are owned by LL now right? 

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

That people want redelivery  these days is one more reason why I only sell on the marketplace.

Yes, there are vendor systems that offer that option too, but as a merchant you have to grant their scripts the permission to access your L$. And that isn't gonna happen in a million years. These scripts are no mod, who knows what the authors coded into them.
So I consider that as a never going to happen option.

 

There is no Ls transaction involved in redeliveries. You are not receiving any Ls nor are you refunding any Ls. 

 

[Sid Nagy]

24 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

There is no Ls transaction involved in redeliveries. You are not receiving any Ls nor are you refunding any Ls. 

 

Tell that to the makers of these vendors.
From the CasperVend manual notecard:

Quote

 

" CasperVend uses and requires "Debit Permissions" to function."

........

" As the warning messages suggest, this permission allows the object access to your Linden Dollar (L$) account, giving it the ability to send money from your account to any other avatar."

" This permission is required for our vendors to function.  We use it for the following purposes:"

......

 

Quote

"All vendors in Second Life require this permission in order to properly function. However, it's very important that you pay attention every time you receive this dialog - a malicious object can very easily empty all the money out of your account."

Conclusion from my side: No way, José.
Chalk the costs for the vendor package up as learning money.

The best tip comes at the end of the notecard. If you want more security, buy the package again with an alt. So another nice chunck of change in the pocket for Casper.

Quote

 "For the highest level of security, one might choose to use a separate avatar for scripts that require debit permissions, which will avoid giving access to your personal balance. However, this will require re-purchasing CasperVend on your other avatar."

    

Edited September 25, 2023 by Sid Nagy
Added text from the Caspervend manual.

[Silent Mistwalker]

30 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Tell that to the makers of these vendors.
From the CasperVend manual notecard:

Conclusion from my side: No way, José.
Chalk the costs for the vendor package up as learning money.

The best tip comes at the end of the notecard. If you want more security, buy the package again with an alt. So another nice chunck of change in the pocket for Casper.

    

None of the systems I have used ever stole Ls from me or my customers. That would be a fast way to put yourself out of business and get banned from SL.

If you are that distrustful of a vendor system that has been in business for almost 20 years, I can't help you.

[Rowan Amore]

https://modemworld.me/2022/09/14/linden-lab-acquires-caspertech-for-second-life/

[Sid Nagy]

3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If you are that distrustful of a vendor system that has been in business for almost 20 years, I can't help you.

Of course it is my choice and nobody else's.
But it is also my money and nobody else's.
So no vendor system with redelivery for Sid Nagy and hence no inworld presence because people rightfully so expect automatic redelivery these days.

[Sid Nagy]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

https://modemworld.me/2022/09/14/linden-lab-acquires-caspertech-for-second-life/

I know, but one still has to give permissions to a non Linden, as far as I know.
The moment one has to give that permission directly to LL, I might consider, but until then, nope, no, nee, nein.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I know, but one still has to give permissions to a non Linden, as far as I know.

But the Lab now owns the Second Life services of Caspertech.  

[Rowan Amore]

@Casper Wardenshould answer this actually since anything else is guessing on my part.

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

23 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Let me bore everyone with another argument against timed demos.

I'm often testing demos with other items, I need to check how your item layers with other things. You know how hard it is to find a skirt that I can wear most mesh panties under? I have some but only because I was able to demo them and check that. Same goes for things to be worn under jackets, things that cover the tummy etc, I check to see if I can use them with other items I already own. This can take a long time, sometimes I'm playing virtual barbie and will want to check boring stuff like this for hours.

A timed demo makes this pain, even if it is copy.

 

 

Most timed demos are copy, I usually make a few copies for that reason, though the ones I have tried in the past were 5 min demos, and 5 mins is ample time. There are some that are a shorter hence why I make copies but don't often use a copy unless RL has taken me AFK.

[Sid Nagy]

25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

But the Lab now owns the Second Life services of Caspertech.  

Yup I know, and I own my money.
Better safe than sorry. One still has to grand permission to Casper and not to LL.
No need for a middle man dealing with my money.
IMHO there is not even one good reason to make giving permission mandartory at all, unless one uses the free-but-with-commission version of the vendor package.

I think this is far of topic by now, so I leave it at that.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[CherryChantal]

10 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

20 hours ago, CherryChantal said:

As a customer I really don‘t like timed-demos but I would never ever write a bad review on mp cause I don‘t know what have led the  merchant to the decision of using timed-demos.

Isn't that denying the merchant valuable feedback? Whatever led them to that decision, if they somehow don't appreciate how fantastically annoying those timed demos can be, wouldn't it be generous to advise them so they can fix it and perhaps improve sales?

 

Oh, sorry … i  said some posts before that a notecard to merchant would be a solution, so I did not mentioned it here again and only adding that writing a bad review on demo products would be a no-go fo me. 

10 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

(Now that I read that again, I wonder what could lead to this decision. The timed-demo script is cheap and easy for the merchant, but otherwise… 🤷)

Interesting point, this may be a reason. I usually rezz my clothes products on ground and link it with a rigged demo box which I have placed on my sim (and copied for every product with shift-move before linking it)  … it takes only seconds to prepare a demo with that method, but i could imagine that the „insert a time-script inside product“ method is a bit faster. 

[Polenth Yue]

Regular scripted vendors need the permissions so that the vendor can refund money. The customer might pay the wrong amount or the vendor will be unable to deliver and cancel the purchase. Charity vendors need it so the funds can be sent on to the charity avatar. If the big systems/events were prone to stealing money using this feature, you wouldn't hear the end of it on the forums. You don't hear about it because it's not happening. The theft is from smaller stuff, like random tip jar makers and scammers handing out fake giftcards.

That said, setting boxes for sale is how I sell things. I know other shops that do too. Using that method over scripted vendors does not stop someone having an inworld store or doing events. The marketplace can cover gifting and anyone wanting to be sure they can get a redelivery. Everyone else just buys the box.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

That said, setting boxes for sale is how I sell things. I know other shops that do too. Using that method over scripted vendors does not stop someone having an inworld store or doing events. The marketplace can cover gifting and anyone wanting to be sure they can get a redelivery. Everyone else just buys the box.

The old fashioned "buy the box" method is the most reliable, certainly, but it sucks that it's so difficult to capture all the sales data that way, in order to do roll-your-own redelivery.

(That's another reason I keep beating the dead horse: integrated web and in-world sales would make it trivial for sellers to enable redelivery, gifting, etc.… although still maybe not at the basic "buy the box" version of in-world sales. I actually expected the Lab to take steps toward integrating sales platforms after they bought Casper, but the Marketplace team can't even get the old kludge to group styles to reduce the search clutter. At this point the only hope is to burn it all down.)

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I actually expected the Lab to take steps toward integrating sales platforms after they bought Casper,

Unless Casper was really bought to keep them in business, I'm going to keep assuming it's coming but who knows when..

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

Regular scripted vendors need the permissions so that the vendor can refund money. The customer might pay the wrong amount or the vendor will be unable to deliver and cancel the purchase. Charity vendors need it so the funds can be sent on to the charity avatar.

I know the wiki says the script must always check that the money() event matches the llSetPayPrice() but I've never understood the conditions that cause mismatched payments, so I've often wondered if I couldn't just keep a record of the anomalies and deal with it manually, rather than needing to get scary PERMISSION_DEBIT. Same with delivery failure for simple object inventory transfers to the extent they're even detectable.

But absolutely, doing all the tricks Casper vendors know, a script would need that permission. One especially clever thing: it refunded my money and refused to send a gift to somebody who already bought the same product. That's not magic but it would be a royal pain to script that myself, especially with multiple vendors dispensing the same products.

[AmeliaJ08]

13 hours ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

5 mins is ample time

There's the problem though, I don't think it is.

I just don't see the benefit to anyone of a timed demo, it doesn't protect your product and most people seem to hate them.

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

9 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

There's the problem though, I don't think it is.

I just don't see the benefit to anyone of a timed demo, it doesn't protect your product and most people seem to hate them.

Would you be happier with a 10 min demo?

[Persephone Emerald]

25 minutes ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

Would you be happier with a 10 min demo?

10 minutes would usually be enough time for me, but I'm not one who hates timed demos with a passion.

[Arielle Popstar]

41 minutes ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

Would you be happier with a 10 min demo?

Depending how many bodies an item is rigged for, that would be the least. I have Maitreya, Legacy, Kupra and e-born so to try each of them requires some time to switch around never mind if there is (hopefully) a color hud to check the shades of some of my favourites.

[Qie Niangao]

Even with a hypothetical twenty minute window—which I'd never actually spend—I'll automatically feel time-constrained and unconsciously judge the product much more harshly than if my demo experience weren't time-constrained at all.

It's not only the time-limited aspect of demos, although that's the topic of the thread. There are other ways merchants sabotage their own product sales by investing too little effort in delighting their prospective customers at the very time final purchasing decisions are made.

Whatever can they be thinking?

[Persephone Emerald]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:30 PM, Sid Nagy said:

I always use a huge 70% transparent cube, where one can walk trough (I don't do clothes BTW), so it is never a real obstacle when inspecting, but it makes the product pretty unusable, and that's what it is supposed to do other wise I would have no sales I guess. Of course my demo's have never mod rights.
Timers are unneeded IMHO.

If I were selling clothes such a cube with the demo text would be placed around the avatar on a place that my product doesn't use. For a shirt, the cube would go around the legs, for a pair of jeans, the cube would go around the chest etc. Of course no mod.

On the subject of preferred ways to mark an item as a DEMO, 

1. Not having the texture on the Demo only shows fit, but not how the textures react to movement or stretching.

2. Not having all the available colors on the Demo, doesn't let me see which colors I like or don't like or how those colors will go with other items of clothing.

3. Having any Demo prim that covers the body is bad, imo. If the Demo prim is above the avatar's head for all pieces of clothing, I can try different tops with pants or skirts, etc. If someone wants to take a picture wearing demo clothing, but not showing the Demo prim, this doesn't really hurt the creator, & might be free advertisement on a blog.

4. Putting the word "DEMO" all over the texture is too much work for the creator and hides important details on a texture such as skin.  Putting the word "DEMO" on the forehead and cheeks of a face skin is fine, imo. Marking half the skin as a Demo in some way is fine too, imo

5. A timed Demo irritates customers and makes some not want to buy anything from that store.