I have a question. (rant)

[TheVeryFirst]

Why do creators put a very short time on a demo. 

I just tried on a skirt and as soon as I put it on chat said I have 300 seconds for the demo. I took it off right away, 5 seconds maybe, did not even get a good look at the skirt but I needed to put on my dance HUD and change my top.  When I put the skirt back on the time had already gone don to 270 seconds, WHAT?
I put it on and took it off several times as I tried different tops and to short of time watching a dance to see how it fit and if it will clip when I move, but I just gave up and did not buy the skirt.

My question is, what kind of rating do I give it, 1 star because I have no idea if I can use it or not and the mean policy the store has on demos, definitely not 4 or 5 stars, I have no idea how it will fit with things I would like to wear with it or if it will clip with a dance I like. And it looked like the time was going away faster than I was wearing it, that is when I just gave up.

I thought 10 minutes was in poor taste and just mean, but 5 minutes is like the creator is telling me, get out of my store and don’t buy any of my items, well okay, I’m gone! Keep your skirt, and its not like the creator “created” the skirt, it was a full permission copy they added texture to. I’ll go to another store and buy it there or even just buy the full permission skirt and have fun playing with it.

It just seams counterintuitive to make it as difficult as possible for a customer to try a demo.

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, TheVeryFirst said:

Why do creators put a very short time on a demo. 

I just tried on a skirt and as soon as I put it on chat said I have 300 seconds for the demo. I took it off right away, 5 seconds maybe, did not even get a good look at the skirt but I needed to put on my dance HUD and change my top.  When I put the skirt back on the time had already gone don to 270 seconds, WHAT?
I put it on and took it off several times as I tried different tops and to short of time watching a dance to see how it fit and if it will clip when I move, but I just gave up and did not buy the skirt.

My question is, what kind of rating do I give it, 1 star because I have no idea if I can use it or not and the mean policy the store has on demos, definitely not 4 or 5 stars, I have no idea how it will fit with things I would like to wear with it or if it will clip with a dance I like. And it looked like the time was going away faster than I was wearing it, that is when I just gave up.

I thought 10 minutes was in poor taste and just mean, but 5 minutes is like the creator is telling me, get out of my store and don’t buy any of my items, well okay, I’m gone! Keep your skirt, and its not like the creator “created” the skirt, it was a full permission copy they added texture to. I’ll go to another store and buy it there or even just buy the full permission skirt and have fun playing with it.

It just seams counterintuitive to make it as difficult as possible for a customer to try a demo.

 

I so agree with you here...annoying. 

More than once I've found myself walking around nude in a store after the Demos poofed...lol.

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, TheVeryFirst said:

I just gave up and did not buy the skirt.

This is what you put in a notecard to the creator.  I have no idea why they think timed demos are a good idea.  One popular creator used to do this.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who sent a notecard.  Nicely worded, of course.  About 6 months ago, they finally stopped.  Now, it's a regular demo.  

Letting them know that you're not making a purchase and the reason why is one of the few ways to get them to change.  

Edited September 24, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

Merchants in SL do all kinds of crazy ill thought out business decisions and in general anytime you question it the reply that is typical is to not criticize the poor sacred merchant class of SL. That's it's their sacred right to never have anything questioned.

That sadly just causes a lot of choices that hurt business to get repeated around rather than adjusted to things that would benefit both the community and the merchants.

 

Imagine this as a concept in real life. Trying out outfits in a store and having the staff stand there with a stopwatch... is that a way to make a sale?

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Shining Sun]

5 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Merchants in SL do all kinds of crazy ill thought out business decisions and in general anytime you question it the reply that is typical is to not criticize the poor sacred merchant class of SL. That's it's their sacred right to never have anything questioned.

That sadly just causes a lot of choices that hurt business to get repeated around rather than adjusted to things that would benefit both the community and the merchants.

 

 

Customers are even worse. What are we to do.

[Persephone Emerald]

34 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Imagine this as a concept in real life. Trying out outfits in a store and having the staff stand there with a stopwatch... is that a way to make a sale?

And then when your 10 minutes are up, they take the clothes off your body and leave you standing in your underwear.

Timed clothing should probably only be used in RLV play.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Luna Bliss]

I'd rather have the clothes poof than have those Demo signs plastered on or around them though. I like being able to see clearly what I'm buying.

Perhaps the script that makes the clothes poof can be removed all too easily  (I have a 'kill all scripts' script that can be dropped into anything), and so theft is less likely to happen if they don't give you enough time to remove the script.

[Luna Bliss]

32 minutes ago, Shining Sun said:

Customers are even worse. What are we to do.

Each side thinks the other is always bad/wrong.  Typical 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Each side thinks the other is always bad/wrong.  Typical 

And people can think whatever they want. But if you run a business - you need to think in the terms of what will make people buy more from your brand.

Perhaps some of these stupid things merchants do are spread intentionally by other merchants as a way to "help" their competitors undersell themselves.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Each side thinks the other is always bad/wrong.  Typical 

And people can think whatever they want. But if you run a business - you need to think in the terms of what will make people buy more from your brand.

I keep buying from the store that does that -- her clothes are too good to pass up. She's just going to have to get used to me running nude through her store I guess.

[Luna Bliss]

I'm going to see if I can remove that poof script when I get a chance to experiment.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Perhaps some of these stupid things merchants do are spread intentionally by other merchants as a way to "help" their competitors undersell themselves.

Sometimes that can happen (weird, unnecessary trends) though I think you're heading into conspiracy theory territory here.

Most likely we just don't understand fully why they need to do this. Need to walk a mile in their shoes.

[Randall Ahren]

3 hours ago, TheVeryFirst said:

It just seams counterintuitive to make it as difficult as possible for a customer to try a demo.

Was the demo free? If so, just buy another demo if you didn't have enough time.

[Kathlen Onyx]

19 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

Was the demo free? If so, just buy another demo if you didn't have enough time.

Yeah, because that's not a waste of time.

[Persephone Emerald]

24 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

Was the demo free? If so, just buy another demo if you didn't have enough time.

Sometimes the demo is boxed, so you can just pull out a new one.

I don't mind most timed demos, but other customers do, then it's a bad idea. I never see anyone complain that there's a big DEMO sign over their head, so clothing creators should probably go that route.

[Bree Giffen]

I totally agree that creators should stop making timed demos. I don't think I've ever bought anything that had a timed demo.

When going through a store or event I always end up with many demos. As I try demos I save the items that I might want to buy into a folder and after going through all the demos I go back to that folder to re-look at everything and see what fits my budget. Unfortunately, I can't look at timed demos again and I end up looking at non-timed demos for making my final purchases. It is quite a hassle to buy demos again especially if its in a busy event. 

There are also times when I want to buy something from a few days to years ago. I have most of my favorited demos sitting in folders and I go back to find the item in order to purchase it at the store. Timed demos lose out again.

[Randall Ahren]

20 minutes ago, Sam Bellisserian said:

Yeah, because that's not a waste of time.

Wasting time is the whole point of SL.

[Randall Ahren]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I never see anyone complain that there's a big DEMO sign over their head, so clothing creators should probably go that route.

Sometimes there's a big cylinder in front too that blocks your view of the clothes when you're wearing the demo. So timed demos that don't have that are advantageous sometimes.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Randall Ahren
Correct Typo.

[Sasy Scarborough]

I had an experience recently where I put on the top, it was timed, I went to wear the bottom ( I like using wear, add is not my go to) and it removed the top, ok so they did not bother to choose a designated attachment point both were going to the same hand. I actually like knowing that, so I can deal with it, instead of adding. I went to re-wear the top that was removed, it was 'timed out' I had not worn it for longer than it took to wear it and try and wear the other part to the item, there was no delay, this script it seems was a try ONCE and once only option. I was so annoyed I left. I had gone to buy that item, it was not just a try some stuff on situation and it occurred. So not only did I not get what I went to buy, but I won't go there again. 

People are using timers, because some brainiac decided that people were moving the demo signs under the floor if not rigged signs, so because of those random one off people that were not customers to begin with, everyone should suffer. If a person is moving the demo sign so as not to pay for your item, what does scripting it so they can't do that do? absolutely nothing except put off people that would have purchased. 

There are so many reasons that you may need longer than someone's decided time limit for a demo. You may need to try with other items, dances and ao's as mentioned, you may want to see if it comes in colours that will go with other things in your inventory, you may want to show friends or your partner and have them help you decide...but the most important reason to not limit people on time, is that many people in Second Life have issues that may mean they need a bit more time, a bit more respect and a bit more empathy. I am lucky to be able to make the decision to just unpack another demo, or get another demo, or just leave, but for some this kind of experience can be disheartening and make them even more aware of their needs not being cared about. I hope creators consider in future if that is more important than stopping some drongo from shoving a demo sign into the floor to save 87c

[Qie Niangao]

13 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

People are using timers, because some brainiac decided that people were moving the demo signs under the floor if not rigged signs,

Interesting. That seems a pretty lame way to make a demo anyway, but I guess some merchants might do that. Still, an annoying timer is such a weird patch to an already weird problem.

I suspect most timed demos got that way because it's just the simplest way to make a demo. And I guess for some things it does make it easier to really appreciate the demo, compared to hanging signs around or using "demo" stamped textures. But I hate timed demos anyway.

Somehow, most of the ones I encounter seem to use this horrid script, which chats with the wearer using the same challenged grammar as that Marketplace listing. It's not that scripters need to be native English speakers, but if their scripts interact with customers, they better get it right—and if a merchant chooses to use a third party script, they're staking their brand reputation on the professionalism of that script's behavior, including its chat.

One way to defeat them is to put on the demo in a no-script sandbox. There are lots of no-script sandboxes, including the ones south of Luna such as Sandbox Wanderton. Depending on the timer script it may not work to flee to the no-scripts area after the demo is already attached, but if you go there before wearing a fresh copy of the demo item, it should leave you alone for as long as you stay on no-script land.

[Rowan Amore]

6 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Sometimes the demo is boxed, so you can just pull out a new one.

I don't mind most timed demos, but other customers do, then it's a bad idea. I never see anyone complain that there's a big DEMO sign over their head, so clothing creators should probably go that route.

I just bought from Spirit in the weekend sale.  Love their demo approach.  It's a big cylinder but you can see through it from any direction you look.  Not sure what's involved in that but it works great.

[AmeliaJ08]

Time limited demos have to be the silliest recent trend and they need to go away.

I'm really not sure what purpose the people making them think they serve. The way to do a demo well is quite simple: the item as normal, no changes, no silly floating stuff, no time limits, no nothing. Just the item. What you do change is the textures though, slap "DEMO" all over them and do this for every texture in the fat pack.

That protects your item to a level that is pretty difficult to overcome, it doesn't annoy the potential customer who is mostly concerned with fit but will also still be able to see what texture options are on offer under all the DEMO stuff you've baked onto the texture (hopefully).

This offers several advantages over all other approaches and while you cannot truly protect your items in SL this stands the best chance while offering the least annoyance to your potential customers.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

I'll never understand the two minute timed demos.. They seemed to have started off at around ten minutes, then five and now two..

Is it like 10 minute abs videos that used to come out, oh wait there is an 8 minute abs video. How about five minute Abs video?

5 minute abs video? Everyone knows you can't get a good workout in a 5 minute abs video, what are ya crazy! \o/

hehehe

That's what those timed demos remind me of anyways.. hehehe

[Silent Mistwalker]

If your demos use a timer script, I will not be a customer. I will not be rushed into making any purchases I may regret. These days people can't afford to waste even pennies.

[Randall Ahren]

I think creators should shift to timed everything, including the actual product, so it's like an Office 365 subscription or premium membership. That new mesh body you just bought or fancy dress? You get a license for use for one year in SL. After that, you have to renew the subscription. Otherwise, the timer deletes the item from your inventory.