Women's expectations: Unrealistic

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I would take this approach and run with it to "see where it goes."  I'm not very good at RP myself, but I can certainly wave my hands in the air and perform a healing spell or rummage in my bag for a potion to play along with the fun.

 

Yay!  Hopefully at some point, both users "break character" laughing, or run out of things and end up OOC.  The whole exercise being unexpected, has acted as an "ice-breaker". 

In case you missed my "ETA":

ETA: My "on-topic" point is, if one approaches Second Life "outside of normal expectations", then it opens the possibility of negating any specific expectations. If "women" expect "men" to be a certain way, approach from a completely different context to help cancel out that expectation.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Same thing anyone wants.  To be treated like a human - Conversation, debate, laughs, a kind word, silliness or seriousness, to be heard and seen for who they are, connection.  Many times they want someone to talk to that won't bring the weight of every negative experience or put them on the defensive. 

It's been my experience that this is too much to ask both in RL and SL. Especially that last sentence. Dragging up the past and throwing it in someone's face is troll bait and makes the person doing it look like a real POS.

Quote

It's a difference in approach to SL.  I'd rather think to myself, "Let's see where this goes," than, "Oh gawd, another creepy person IMing me."

That's how it starts, seeing where it goes, and inevitably it goes straight to another creepy person.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Randall Ahren]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

11 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

I'll ask my question again with more detail: what do (nice polite) men want in SL? for example, in a music club or casual hangout place. 

Same thing anyone wants.  To be treated like a human - Conversation, debate, laughs, a kind word, silliness or seriousness, to be heard and seen for who they are, connection.

So a fragile human connection in a vast and uncaring metaverse? That's too much to ask for. It's an unrealistic expectation. Realistic expectations are bots, AFK avatars, suspicion, hostility, deceit and rudeness.

[Paul Hexem]

5 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

When you read certain news sources, you'll often find them describing things as "an out of control and unprecedented explosion of...", but when you go to look at actual numbers and statistics you discover that what they're describing aren't nearly as dramatic as they make it sound. Because if you want people to click, you play up the sensational outliers.

You need to click on a forum topic to read it.

Have you considered the possibility that you're only remembering the forum threads that talk about creepy men?

It's right there on page two, just the one. Just like there's only one of these threads. 1 for 1.

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

What do nice, polite men want?  Just like any other human of any gender, they want to be treated like individuals, not as a stereotype or lumped in whatever group we choose to assign them to.  

All it takes is entering a conversation without an agenda of our own and not assuming every IM is someone on a mission for SLex.

I've always remembered this for some reason. I used to have a large furniture store, and I often stood near the landing spot, with my 'Owner' group tag above my head, to help if needed. I was standing there one day when 2 females were standing next to a cuddle sofa. I went over and asked if they needed any help. They said no, but one them also said, "Typical men", meaning that they thought I was looking to get a cuddle with them. Many SL females actually expect the bolded part of your post when approached by SL males.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Sid Nagy]

7 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

In 17 years of being in SL, I've had a woman come on to me inworld exactly once, and it wasn't aggressive at all. Once in 17 years - I guess short ginger dudes don't fall into that "top 20%".  🤣  My experience with using female avatars is the polar opposite of that.

I Quoted this for truth.

The first step is expected to be taken by the male, that is still very much the norm everywhere in the western world. SL included.
And when you take that first step in SL and dare to say hi, you are that sex driven male pervert, before you know it.
Much more than in RL in my experience.

So I've put in my profile that I seldom start a conversation and live my silent and quiet SL.
Pretending and convincing myself that I don't mind and get the social part of SL for 90+% from the forums.

I had a few nice unexpected chats with forumites last week inworld though.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Syo Emerald]

I'm not taking the first step with anyone.

Its not because you are a man. Its because I'm shy.

[Theresa Tennyson]

52 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

It's right there on page two, just the one. Just like there's only one of these threads. 1 for 1.

 

21 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

This actually circles back to my original question, in a way.

What is it that makes men like that so prevalent that we see it mentioned time and time again, and the men that do it right, so to speak, so rare?

Have the good ones given up because of various (clearly debatable) stats? Do they not exist? Or is the expectation of "the correct time and place" unrealistic?

 

[Sid Nagy]

Just now, Syo Emerald said:

I'm not taking the first step with anyone.

Its not because you are a man. Its because I'm shy.

That can be a reason too of course.
But I don't believe that there are that many shy females around in SL.
I don't think that even 10 female avatars started a conversation with me during the 16 years I'm around in SL.
Customer support and friends included. It is a western world cultural thing IMHO.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

I'm not taking the first step with anyone.

Its not because you are a man. Its because I'm shy.

I used to be really shy when I was a kid/young teen. These days, not at all. I have no idea how I grew out of that, as my shyness was fairly debilitating there for a while. Perhaps being a super night owl and going to a lot of nightclubs and activities alone by myself (because my friends were often NO fun and were in their PJs by 7pm until I found a more adventurous group to hang out with) whacked that out of me eventually.

Nowadays, I tend to feel the opposite. If I'm interested enough in someone for some reason, I'll find a way to initiate contact. I don't expect men to do it at all since I'm so familiar with shyness and how long it can take to overcome it (and I find shy men to be absolutely adorable anyway). If they want to contact me first, that's totally fine, but if they're on my "ohhh he seems interesting" radar already, I'll likely beat em to it.

[Akane Nacht]

2 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Same thing anyone wants.  To be treated like a human - Conversation, debate, laughs, a kind word, silliness or seriousness, to be heard and seen for who they are, connection.  Many times they want someone to talk to that won't bring the weight of every negative experience or put them on the defensive. 

What do nice, polite men want?  Just like any other human of any gender, they want to be treated like individuals, not as a stereotype or lumped in whatever group we choose to assign them to.  

All it takes is entering a conversation without an agenda of our own and not assuming every IM is someone on a mission for SLex.  There are so many amazing people inworld if we give them a chance and let conversations unfold.

It's a difference in approach to SL.  I'd rather think to myself, "Let's see where this goes," than, "Oh gawd, another creepy person IMing me."

 

Well sure. Actually I posed my question thinking of what sort of interaction are they aiming for - dating and romance, making a friend, just passing time, something else? And what might be standing in the way of such wants. If the assumption is it's all about dating, then as others have pointed out, SL has some flaws when used as a dating platform. 

I made most of my friends while roleplaying, so we had a common interest. I find it hard to make connections in random settings like music clubs, as I have no idea what the other person wants. Perhaps it would be easier if we just had colour coded labels for our intentions 🙃

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

16 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I have no idea what the other person wants

And you never will if you don't answer that IM.  If it is a person looking to hook up by fishing, you'll figure it out within a few sentences.  A quick, "Enjoy your SL and best of luck to ya!" and it's over.  Off you go to enjoy your own stuff.

[Akane Nacht]

1 minute ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

And you never will if you don't answer that IM.  If it is a person looking to hook up by fishing, you'll figure it out within a few sentences.  A quick, "Enjoy your SL and best of luck to ya!" and it's over.  Off you go to enjoy your own stuff.

I always answer. I'm not shy. 

46 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

And when you take that first step in SL and dare to say hi, you are that sex driven male pervert, before you know it.

I promise never to think you a pervert should you IM me. 😊

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Casidy Silvercloud said:

I think topics like this would honestly go better if both men and women didn't try to answer for one another. How the hell does a woman know what an individual, or collective group, of men want? The same can be said in reverse as well. 

Sure people can guess at some of the most basic things that people, generally, might desire or seek out, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're right. Individualism exists and as much as I enjoy being a woman, I'm still me, an individual, with varying degrees of complexity that won't ever all or even mostly be the same as another's. 

I can only say the things I want, the things I seek out, things that I enjoy or would enjoy. I can't speak for any other female, nor would I try. I also can't speak for males, primarily because I'm not one, but also because, I'm not those individuals either. Women who say what men want and men who say what women want are often more wrong than right, even if thy hit a few generalizations on the head. It makes it difficult to take things they say seriously in any other capacity when they think they can speak for others.

There is no "most women's expectations" list, nor is there a "most men's expectations list". Those things will vary as much as the individuals. Anyone that proclaims to have the answers for all, or even most, is lying through their teeth. Yes even those online "what women/men want" or "expectations" articles are, mostly, a load of horse poop. 

^ This is the point I was trying to make when I said, "Why are women arguing in a thread directed at men."  Then someone responded with saying they weren't arguing, but it was still mostly women responding.

Maybe women post more here than men do, but when the OP asks for men's views, this should be a clue to let those who identify as male speak for themselves. We women don't generally like it when men speak for us, so do the guys a favor and let them speak for themselves too.

[Sid Nagy]

26 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

 Perhaps it would be easier if we just had colour coded labels for our intentions 🙃

Like in the Black Forest in the past?
Women with dark balls on their hats: Not in the market.
Red balled hat: In the market.

[Phil Deakins]

7 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I promise never to think you a pervert should you IM me. 😊

Me too

[Sid Nagy]

10 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

We women don't generally like it when men speak for us, so do the guys a favor and let them speak for themselves too.

Men who consider themselves in the market for a relation in SL better tiptoe around this thread, to be honest. Or use a never used alt.  😋
I would, if I were interested in relationships.
 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

8 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

In 17 years of being in SL, I've had a woman come on to me inworld exactly once, and it wasn't aggressive at all. Once in 17 years - I guess short ginger dudes don't fall into that "top 20%".  🤣  My experience with using female avatars is the polar opposite of that.

Then you have been lucky.  Quite of few of my male friends over the years I've been on SL have mentioned aggressive females in their IM.  

[Ayashe Ninetails]

10 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maybe women post more here than men do, but when the OP asks for men's views, this should be a clue to let those who identify as male speak for themselves.

I brought this up before, but there's definitely a lack of male perspective in this thread. If none of us posted in it, we'd still be on Page 1. 😂

I still think it's split between guys who don't want to get involved at all (*gigglesnort*) and other guys maybe not experiencing the same things mentioned in the OP and having nothing to add.

[Akane Nacht]

23 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Like in the Black Forest in the past?
Women with dark balls on their hats: Not in the market.
Red balled hat: In the market.

exactly! also I love hats

18 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Me too

hmm, I might think you a pervert, but you can still IM me. Just take note of my hat

Edited September 17, 2023 by Akane Nacht
missing word was missing

[Persephone Emerald]

43 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

That can be a reason too of course.
But I don't believe that there are that many shy females around in SL.
I don't think that even 10 female avatars started a conversation with me during the 16 years I'm around in SL.
Customer support and friends included. It is a western world cultural thing IMHO.

I'm a shy female...or maybe just anti-social. 😆 

I generally avoid talking first to male avatars because I don't want them to think I'm coming on to them. I will talk to them first if they appear to be a newbie who needs help. I'm more likely to compliment a female avatar out of the blue than a male one, because I think they're less likely to think I'm complimenting as a prelude to a come on. Once in a while I do compliment a guy out of the blue, usually when I've been reading his profile and want to tell him I thought it was interesting.

Most people looking to hook up in SL can make an attractive avatar if they want, but they can't fake intelligence or creativity. Both of these can show in a profile. Creativity and a sense of humor can also show in their avatar appearance.

[Sid Nagy]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Then you have been lucky.  Quite of few of my male friends over the years I've been on SL have mentioned aggressive females in their IM.  

Not a single one aggressive ever so far. Not that I'm aiming for that.

Under 10 female first contacts in total in all these years in SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Men who consider themselves in the market for a relation in SL better tiptoe around this thread, to be honest. Or use a never used alt.  😋
I would, if I were interested in relationships.
 

Challenge accepted!

I would be looking for a woman who doesn't act like she's for sale. (Not a hoor, so to spik.)

Edited September 17, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Akane Nacht]

7 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Under 10 female first contacts in total in all these years in SL.

that... sounds like a dare 😏

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Challenge accepted!

I would be looking for a woman who doesn't act like she's for sale. (Not a hoor, so to spik.)

🙄  

I won't ask how a woman would act like she's for sale. That could be interpreted too many different ways, especially in SL.