Rolig Loon Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Randall Ahren said: What about that PC with the RTX4090 so you can watch flying body parts rezz faster? Is that a lot less expensive than a movie? That kind of depends on how many movies you go to in the time it takes before your RTX4090 gets fried or becomes obsolete and, of course, it assumes that you're not going to do anything else with the computer except SL. 😎 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 3 hours ago, P14Y3R said: Ive returned to SL after almost 10 years of being absent. SL was such an outstanding atmosphere in 2010, it must be better and more beautiful right? It has been 10 years, surely Linden has done something with the creators and the creators have contributed to such an amazing economy, yeah? Here we go again. LL don't do much with creators other than tax them. So, NO change from before you left. Creators have contributed to a yearly tuenover of more than $500 million. That sounds like an economy to me. 3 hours ago, P14Y3R said: Lets acknowledge that the Linder Dollar is not even close to investable. There is no "buybacks" or "printing L" function from Linden Labs' federal reserve, just greedy avatars that control the economy. L$ were NEVER investible, you pay a transaction charge too buy them, and another transaction charge to sell them, the charges and the VERY minor fluctuations of a TIGHTLY controlled "fake exchange" guarantee that you won't make a red cent investing in L$ unless you dabble in VERY large transactions, like some "greedy avatars that control the economy", and een then there are better ways to make money . 3 hours ago, P14Y3R said: Buying land at auctions is a joke, people use bots to buy land now so even if you bid, there is a bot bidding over you. So, again, no change since before you left. People use bots to track available parcels, just like they did back when you thought SL was "great". 3 hours ago, P14Y3R said: Good luck getting adult land as everyone seems to think that even though there are no avatars using SL, adult land is worth L$50-100/m2. I know people who routinely buy and sell A rated land, they seem to have no problems. Also, who told you there are "no avatars using SL", whoever it was, they were wrong, the problem is, in the years you've been AWOL, SL has gotten a lot bigger, there's far more regions NOW than there were back when you left. 27,000 regions, and 50,000 concurrency, that spreads people out more on average. As for the prices of A rated land, yeah there are SOME plots that go for 50-100 /m, but most is a lot less than that, you need to look around more, learn how to shop for land. 4 hours ago, P14Y3R said: As the world progresses, better and more efficient sims are produced and SL will fall further into this pit, leaving your investment at $0 USD when the plug is pulled. Actually those "better and more efficient" virtual worlds have already been produced, almost all of them have failed badly, one of the more "successful" currently LOSES about $100 MILLION a MONTH, and has lost money EVERY month since it opened some years ago. SL on the other hand, MAKES money. 4 hours ago, P14Y3R said: To all of you greedy land owners, make the change for SL or lose SL. And finally we come to the heart of your complaint. "Evil land owners who have BEEN HERE for the last 10 years, won't sell me prime parcels for pennies so I can play amateur-land-speculator-wannabe and make HUGE profits." The fact that you think land in Zindra all sells for L$ 50 - 100 /m shows you don't really understand how the land business in SL actually works, and that aany attempt by you to "invest" will almost certainly fail, not because of "Evil Land Owners" but because you didn't do any research, and expected things to be the same as 2010, when land prices had tanked, as waves of people left when they realised they weren't going to make "Huge Profits" off owning a single 4096 parcel, and trying to flip it for twice what they over-paid for it because they actually believed "there's always a bigger sucker than me out there". Welcome back to SL, EVERYTHING that you THINK you knew about SL, is now WORTHLESS, time to be the oldest "noob" at the Welcome Hub. Viewers have changed, avatars have changed, clothing has changed, the retail economy has changed, the land market has changed. 10 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 4 hours ago, P14Y3R said: Ive returned to SL after almost 10 years of being absent. SL was such an outstanding atmosphere in 2010, it must be better and more beautiful right? It has been 10 years, surely Linden has done something with the creators and the creators have contributed to such an amazing economy, yeah? I am deeply disappointed in the outcome of this sim. The paths that could have been taken, the people and community that are surely missing, the lack of economy or control of it. Lets acknowledge that the Linder Dollar is not even close to investable. There is no "buybacks" or "printing L" function from Linden Labs' federal reserve, just greedy avatars that control the economy. Buying land at auctions is a joke, people use bots to buy land now so even if you bid, there is a bot bidding over you. Good luck getting adult land as everyone seems to think that even though there are no avatars using SL, adult land is worth L$50-100/m2. The use of bots alone should be a terms violation, but I doubt Linden Labs will govern that as they prefer to govern nothing. As the world progresses, better and more efficient sims are produced and SL will fall further into this pit, leaving your investment at $0 USD when the plug is pulled. To all of you greedy land owners, make the change for SL or lose SL. Aaah... another returnee that came in looked around and didn't find what THEY THOUGHT should be here. Let's see, how long have you been back? Yet you know what SL should be and how it should work... and which virtual world do you run? Did you make it to the Content Creator's meetings? Did you explore the Bento armature and mesh prims that users had been asking for? Control... yeah centralized control from the top down always works so well for creative types. Make sure everyone marches in step. As to governing... Did you make it to even one of the Linden lead Governance Meetings in-world? Any of the Linden lead meetings? Economy.... how many people took money out of SL this past year? And how much? Bots... a violation? Yeah, keep those bots out. No AI is allowed here. That stuff is only for RL. Sheeeesh... 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 The OP is probably someone who comes in to complain on occasion, and made an Alt just for this post.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Here we go again. LL don't do much with creators other than tax them. So, NO change from before you left. Creators have contributed to a yearly tuenover of more than $500 million. That sounds like an economy to me. L$ were NEVER investible, you pay a transaction charge too buy them, and another transaction charge to sell them, the charges and the VERY minor fluctuations of a TIGHTLY controlled "fake exchange" guarantee that you won't make a red cent investing in L$ unless you dabble in VERY large transactions, like some "greedy avatars that control the economy", and een then there are better ways to make money . So, again, no change since before you left. People use bots to track available parcels, just like they did back when you thought SL was "great". I know people who routinely buy and sell A rated land, they seem to have no problems. Also, who told you there are "no avatars using SL", whoever it was, they were wrong, the problem is, in the years you've been AWOL, SL has gotten a lot bigger, there's far more regions NOW than there were back when you left. 27,000 regions, and 50,000 concurrency, that spreads people out more on average. As for the prices of A rated land, yeah there are SOME plots that go for 50-100 /m, but most is a lot less than that, you need to look around more, learn how to shop for land. Actually those "better and more efficient" virtual worlds have already been produced, almost all of them have failed badly, one of the more "successful" currently LOSES about $100 MILLION a MONTH, and has lost money EVERY month since it opened some years ago. SL on the other hand, MAKES money. And finally we come to the heart of your complaint. "Evil land owners who have BEEN HERE for the last 10 years, won't sell me prime parcels for pennies so I can play amateur-land-speculator-wannabe and make HUGE profits." The fact that you think land in Zindra all sells for L$ 50 - 100 /m shows you don't really understand how the land business in SL actually works, and that aany attempt by you to "invest" will almost certainly fail, not because of "Evil Land Owners" but because you didn't do any research, and expected things to be the same as 2010, when land prices had tanked, as waves of people left when they realised they weren't going to make "Huge Profits" off owning a single 4096 parcel, and trying to flip it for twice what they over-paid for it because they actually believed "there's always a bigger sucker than me out there". Welcome back to SL, EVERYTHING that you THINK you knew about SL, is now WORTHLESS, time to be the oldest "noob" at the Welcome Hub. Viewers have changed, avatars have changed, clothing has changed, the retail economy has changed, the land market has changed. I admire how you address each of their points! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said: Who gave you the impression that SL is there for investment reasons? Maybe this book: How to Make Real Money in Second Life: Boost Your Business, Market Your Services, and Sell Your Products in the World's Hottest Virtual Community. Or perhaps this article in Fortune: Anshe Chung: First Virtual Millionaire Possibly this Wikipedia article: In 2009, the total size of the Second Life economy grew 65% to US$567 million, about 25% of the entire U.S. virtual goods market. Gross Resident Earnings are $55 million US Dollars in 2009 – 11% growth over 2008. Even in 2023, you should be able to earn enough in SL to support your activities without putting any real money into the game. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Randall Ahren said: Maybe this book: How to Make Real Money in Second Life: Boost Your Business, Market Your Services, and Sell Your Products in the World's Hottest Virtual Community. Or perhaps this article in Fortune: Anshe Chung: First Virtual Millionaire Possibly this Wikipedia article: In 2009, the total size of the Second Life economy grew 65% to US$567 million, about 25% of the entire U.S. virtual goods market. Gross Resident Earnings are $55 million US Dollars in 2009 – 11% growth over 2008. Even in 2023, you should be able to earn enough in SL to support your activities without putting any real money into the game. Anything from this decade? Quite a lot of people earn enough in SL to pay for their SL. The rest of us choose to purchase Ls from people selling Ls so someone, somewhere is making enough to sell. I know one merchant who actually made more from SL than he made in his RL job. And he wasn't flipping burgers in RL. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 3 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said: Just aybe 2 or 3 weeks ago I got rid of a small 480m plot by setting it to below $1l/m Within seconds it was in someone else's name and an orange cloud was standing next to me. If they're not using bots - they're using something equally useful. If they are using bots, they are violating the ToS and you didn't report it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 If you would have bought a bunch of lindens ten years ago and came back today, you would have had a pretty nice growth in your investment.. I was just saying that same thing to myself and to others in another thread just this morning.. Damn did I ever miss that boat!! \o/ hehehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chike Nightingale Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Problem is, you buy them then spend them, just can't resist it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chike Nightingale Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: There is no "land price issue", if you just follow the herd and get a house in Belliseria. You're welcome. Oh, I like the sound of being part of a herd and anyway, I think Second Life is enjoyable, exciting, fun so is great already. You should hear me screaming in RL when I am trying to stop my plane in SL from crashing. Totally immersed. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Randall Ahren said: Maybe this book: How to Make Real Money in Second Life: Boost Your Business, Market Your Services, and Sell Your Products in the World's Hottest Virtual Community. Or perhaps this article in Fortune: Anshe Chung: First Virtual Millionaire Possibly this Wikipedia article: In 2009, the total size of the Second Life economy grew 65% to US$567 million, about 25% of the entire U.S. virtual goods market. Gross Resident Earnings are $55 million US Dollars in 2009 – 11% growth over 2008. Even in 2023, you should be able to earn enough in SL to support your activities without putting any real money into the game. Well, one way to make money in SL, over a decade ago, was to write a crappy book with a clickbait title, intended to appeal to gullible morons, and charge through the nose for it. Even that isn't as good a cash generator as it was in 2008. The other problem is that the "investment" mentioned in the OP wasn't "making money by working in SL as a content creator/merchant/land baron", it was Lindex based. Lets look at that shall we. "Invest" $110 on $100 worth of L$ and $10 of transaction tax. Wait a week, hoping the exchange rates will move enough to generate HUGE PROFITS! Sell your $100 worth of L$ for $95, then pay another transaction tax. Cash out your $ out of SL, paying a cash-out tax along the way. Realise that not only did you NOT make HUGE PROFIS without working, but you LOST money. Destroy your 40 year old Home Shrine to the Blessed St Friedman of Trickledown. "Invest" in a interest paying savings account at the local bank. Yeah people DO in fact MAKE money in SL, but they do it by actively WORKING at some form of business, NOT by pretending that L$ are a "fake-money-crypto-crap-financial-fraud-ponzi-scheme-scam-token-backed-by-BLAG-Chan (tm)". 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTUS Palianta Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 I think the OP is looking at SL from only one perspective, in many ways SL is better than 10 years ago, like decorations and avatar customization. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 hour ago, JUSTUS Palianta said: I think the OP is looking at SL from only one perspective, in many ways SL is better than 10 years ago, like decorations and avatar customization. I agree the OP is incorrect, but for a different reason. SL was never great. It was just okay. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Randall Ahren said: I agree the OP is incorrect, but for a different reason. SL was never great. It was just okay. Is "okay" better or worse than "so-so", or somewhere between "meh" and "lame"? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafadilia Wayfarer Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 I've always believed SL is what a person makes of it. You build your existence here. Finding fault in every little thing isn't going make things enjoyable. Quite the opposite I would imagine. We don't always get everything we want. It is part of reality. Nothing is going to be perfect which is comepletely okay. I think SL has improved in many ways over the years. I think it is an awesome place to spend time. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond Marchant Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 The OP is trolling. Don’t take the bait. So far my experience with auctions has been positive, even when bidding against flippers. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said: The OP is trolling. Don’t take the bait. If this was a troll, the OP would have replied a few times already to lure in more people. I think it's a legit rant and the OP is angry. SL tends to have that effect on its residents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Nova Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 What's the problem? SL has always grated. That's why it's so gr(e)at(e). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 10 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said: You haven't been able to use bots to buy land with for years. Maybe try catching up on all the changes over the past 10 years. He said at auctions, not inworld. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Trolls on the Forum often post and don't respond. More common lately, are Trolls who just want to vent, and get mad if anyone replies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said: 11 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said: Just aybe 2 or 3 weeks ago I got rid of a small 480m plot by setting it to below $1l/m Within seconds it was in someone else's name and an orange cloud was standing next to me. If they're not using bots - they're using something equally useful. If they are using bots, they are violating the ToS and you didn't report it. It's definitely against the ToS for an in-world bot to buy land, but it's not easy for anybody to know that's what's going on. It's easy (easier, actually) to use the web search to find land for sale, and it refreshes a bit more quickly than the identical in-world search routed through the viewer, so whether a human is refreshing their browser manually or there's a program doing it, it's certainly possible the land's availability could result in a very rapid response by a non-bot buyer. On the other hand, however, this was reportedly a 480 m² parcel which, being under 512 m², seems to be unlisted in web search nor in viewers that use that interface, which is pretty much everybody except Firestorm. As I've said before, this is one place where the Lab really should break that interface so the search server simply will not return for-sale listings for parcels smaller than a uniform minimum, which I'd suggest should match the 144 m² minimum size for listing a parcel in normal (non sale) Search, rather than the 512 m² minimum currently used in the web search, which matches the minimum parcel size for Events. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Nova Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 When SL hit the headlines a lot of Corporate suits jumped in thinking that they could make a killing - they were wrong. Unless you have marketable skills that are in demand it is nigh on impossible to make money in SL. However SL is not about making money - it's about entertainment and having fun. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 8 hours ago, JUSTUS Palianta said: I think the OP is looking at SL from only one perspective, in many ways SL is better than 10 years ago, like decorations and avatar customization. it is better in all and everything. One exception .. we lost the long outages and oops maintenance failed .. but i'm not really missing those 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: It's definitely against the ToS for an in-world bot to buy land, but it's not easy for anybody to know that's what's going on. It's easy (easier, actually) to use the web search to find land for sale, and it refreshes a bit more quickly than the identical in-world search routed through the viewer, so whether a human is refreshing their browser manually or there's a program doing it, it's certainly possible the land's availability could result in a very rapid response by a non-bot buyer. On the other hand, however, this was reportedly a 480 m² parcel which, being under 512 m², seems to be unlisted in web search nor in viewers that use that interface, which is pretty much everybody except Firestorm. As I've said before, this is one place where the Lab really should break that interface so the search server simply will not return for-sale listings for parcels smaller than a uniform minimum, which I'd suggest should match the 144 m² minimum size for listing a parcel in normal (non sale) Search, rather than the 512 m² minimum currently used in the web search, which matches the minimum parcel size for Events. 512 is the minimum parcel size LL was willing to sell in the past (First Land!). That's probably why LL hasn't changed it and doesn't plan on changing it. Edited September 10, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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