Avatars are anti social

[PJBear Bitey]

13 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

I didn't become a different person when I first changed avatars, but the way people responded to me changed drastically. People are much more likely to approach and talk to tiny avatars, in a way they don't with realistic human avatars. Generally people talking to me use my avatar as a conversation opener, making it easier to start a conversation. They also clearly have expectations that I'll be friendly and that I'm not after sex, so I seem safe to talk to in a way that realistic human avatars might not be.

This shouldn't really be a surprise. All avatars are choices, so people respond to those choices.

Yes, I've notied this as well. Well, when I'm in something other than human, I mean. Not specifically tiny. I can and do transform into tiny avatars on occasion, but most of the time I'll transform into my bear (which isn't tiny).  People tend to initiate converations more when I'm something other than human.

[PJBear Bitey]

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Look at RL. People on their phones in restaurants, at birthday parties, in theme parks, in supermarkets, in theaters, in church, at school you name it. Everywhere, even at the toilet.
It seems more and more people prefer indirect conversations above the face to face ones.
A growing number of people is even afraid to have a normal phone conversation (voice) these days.

Please stop looking at me while I'm on the toilet. That's rude.

7 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

One definitely needs cute bunny ears to attract neat builds and stuff like that.  😂

The bunny ears in my profile picture? heh. First time I came here I saw that spot blank. So I took a picture in SL and added it here. I was somewhere that gave out that hat, I think. Never before, and never later did I wear that hat or bunny ears. So . . . I'm misrepresenting myself, I am.

[PJBear Bitey]

Here's me dancing at a club (I'm the bear): 

[daniavalon]

much prefer public chat

I feel like it can be safe and casual vs someone going straight for the sexting

I only will know if i want to chat after a group really.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Risks include being ignored, judged, made fun of, rejected..

Oh. You mean a typical day in my life. 

[Bree Giffen]

I think it's up to each of us to start a conversation with others in general chat. Look at other avatars and try to guess what they are about or read their profiles. If you have something in common you can talk about that or if not you could ask them to inform you about their interests. I've tried several times to simply start conversations where there is none. I start out with some quips like, 'This place is really quiet. If it gets any livelier a funeral might break out!' which is from Rodney Dangerfield. A really general question to nobody in particular like, 'Hey all. How's everyone doing tonight? Or today, wherever you are in the world'. If somebody start chatting with you in general, you could keep it open for others to join by asking things like, 'I wonder what anyone else thinks about this?

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

When I was a cub, we didn't have any fancy MMOOS, Discard, or TwatzUp.

We had AOL Chatrooms, and we LIKED it! (Before that, we had BITNET.)

MSIM, Yahell, ICQ and a few others I've forgotten the names of that catered to First Nations. 🤫

[Hymn Celestia]

18 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

A common criticism ..

• Visit a social location, dozens of carefully dressed avatars standing around in silence.
• Why are these people not all having an entertaining conversation that one might listen in on, and perhaps join in?
• Put all the same people together in group chat or discord and that conversation will happen and continue to happen.

This behavior is replicated on other platforms and MMOs.

In WoW for example, local chat is dead. Trade chat (a region wide chat where toons/avatars are not in close proximity) is very active. Guild chat (like our group chat) is also active. Dungeon chat is dead aside from purposeful information (don't go that way, wait for me a moment, etc).

Minecraft, people will randomly chat when miles apart .. but not when together without purpose.

 

People will chose not to engage with avatars in the same local vicinity unless all are personally known or they have no other choice. If conversation is forced to local, it will be brief and to the point. Local social among strangers can happen when centered around one or two instigators, the moment they leave, it ends.

Avatars are anti social.

Speaking for myself only (but perhaps others have the same experience) I would argue that avatars are evolutionary; that they perhaps do not begin as anti-social (simply because avatars need other avatars' help to be able to do things; like figure out the AO, or figure out why this skin looks different on me than on the picture and discuss the "shape" phenomenon etc...) but that perhaps the next phase of second-living involves an ever-lessening degree of social interaction in local.  One needs it less and less to achieve the daily goals.

And so as the avatar evolves, becomes more and more sophisticated in appearance and movement, because of all the time and care spent fine-tuning it over the years, the avatar perhaps is less and less likely to engage with strangers in local chat as the avatar has likely made friends they communicate with in IMs, where one's attention is drawn the more friends one has made.  (One's attention can only be in so many places; and that is assuming there isn't any RL distraction beyond the screen.)

I know that my avatar has indeed become anti-social over the years; quite deliberately in fact, as an evolutionary process based on key learnings and remembered experiences.  It's not that  "social is bad," just that I know where Lyric's fun resides and it resides in the familiar goodness she's curated over many years of trial and error.  Sociability has served her well in the past and now she reaps the benefits of it. 

So, I posit: Avatars Evolve.  And maybe there is a next phase after the anti-sociability still to come, I don't know.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I think it's up to each of us to start a conversation with others in general chat.

There is some trepidation involved, like highschool students on the edge of the dancefoor, no one wants to talk first (knowing full well that one person deciding to dance alone is likely a psychopath).

Avatars make it real, so real world instincts and behaviors apply.

VRChat has a little less of an issue in that most of the avatars aren't realistic, they are known copyrighted characters with whom others have an established bond, anime for days, critters, lobsters, literal junk .. and the only real medium is voice. This madness does also limit the appeal though. My own son, who is the target demographic with the gear, finds it chaotic and stressful.

[Coffee Pancake]

6 minutes ago, Lyric Demina said:

So, I posit: Avatars Evolve.  And maybe there is a next phase after the anti-sociability still to come, I don't know.

I have noticed that, there is a tendency towards self isolation, if not alone, with a reduced social circle. Either that works out, or the person leaves and does other things for a while / for ever.

[Theresa Tennyson]

18 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

People will chose not to engage with avatars in the same local vicinity unless all are personally known or they have no other choice. If conversation is forced to local, it will be brief and to the point. Local social among strangers can happen when centered around one or two instigators, the moment they leave, it ends.

Avatars are anti social.

You can say exactly the same thing about "humans." In my experience, most people don't interact with strangers they happen to be in the same place with - say, in a store or on public transportation. Somebody might occasionally throw out a one-liner or random comment, which may get a reply, but that's the exception. A very few times you'll run into people who will start a random conversation with you - the person next to you on a bus, for instance - but a lot of people would find those conversations to be "creepy."

[Love Zhaoying]

I did some thinking about this, and came to a few personal conclusions regarding my OWN tendency to "talk" in order to "be social" or not in a group setting:

 Context is everything:

- I may be comfortable chatting in local at a club, but not necessarily if the key performer / DJ is someone I know well.  I don't want to "step on their toes".  

Solution: ASK the DJ/performer (or Host) if I don't see a lot of chat, if it is fine with them to chat in local.  They are the "boss" in this scenario, they are my "friend", so they are the one to ask.

"Like" vs. "Unlike Groups" make a difference:

- As a "Neko Furry", I straddle both the "Furry" and "Hoomon" worlds.  Some people judge me for that in EITHER context.

Solution: If I KNOW that the Furry group doesn't want to deal with me as a Neko, I may change to a "Feral" avatar before being too chatty. This doesn't work for a "Hoomon" group, I'm not going to go "full Human" (take off my Neko parts).

"Like" vs. "Unlike Individuals" make a difference:

- This addresses (in a way), what Coffee brought up earlier about some different "types" of avatars "being more social".  I think the root here is, depending on YOU and how YOU view "your" group vs. "other" groups, and your own previous experience being sociable with people in "other" groups, will determine if you feel comfortable being sociable with people in those "other" groups.

Example:  If you go to a place and see a Tiny, and that Tiny is friendly, you may come to a conclusion that "Tinies are sociable".  Then if you go to a place with a lot of Tinies, and see them talking, this may reinforce your conclusions and allow you to approach them.

HOWEVER:  If when you approach Tinies they rebuff you because you are not part of THEIR group, then that will predispose you to not approach Tinies the same way again.

Solution: DON'T make assumptions based on individual interactions, because individuals don't really represent groups no matter what their avatar "is".  However, if you come to a conclusion for example, that "Tinies are sociable" and it works for you, then go for it!

I personally do not subscribe to the theory that "more cartoonish avatars are more social".  Plenty of Furries are antisocial and/or stuck up. Your Mileage May Vary.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

A very few times you'll run into people who will start a random conversation with you - the person next to you on a bus, for instance - but a lot of people would find those conversations to be "creepy."

Yep, I'm that person. 😁  But, I also don't talk in public for everyone, on the bus, in the store or wherever to hear.   I speak so the person beside me can hear (IM in SL).  I've also been known to speak up in group chat now and then.  That's similar to what goes on here in the forums.  

I started in 2009.  Even back then people would walk into a busy place without much local chat and comment on everyone being bots.  Nothing has changed, IMO.  People engage with others in a way that's most comfortable for them.  

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

But, I also don't talk in public for everyone, on the bus, in the store or wherever to hear. 

Oh God - flashbacks to my mom!! She would talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime. 

I try not to, but will probably turn out like her.  (I am less lately than I was a few years ago.)

[AmeliaJ08]

SL does sometimes seem particularly hostile to local chat, I remember when I was pretty new being scorned by a few people because I was talking to somebody in local and how I was breaking some unspoken rule about keeping it clear and how she didn't want to listen to my conversation with somebody etc...

I understand people can be annoying in local, I don't think holding a conversation to be necessarily annoying though and it does vary by location of course. I use it as intended and in more social locations it is often encouraged since it is welcoming and invites others to the conversation, in many locations this is completely appropriate.

 

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oh God - flashbacks to my mom!! She would talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime. 

I try not to, but will probably turn out like her.  (I am less lately than I was a few years ago.)

It used to mortify me when I was younger and my parents did it.  Yes, we often turn into them.  She's a wonderful woman so I'm honored if people think I am like her.

My parents would also start dancing (think jitterbug-ish) if a song they liked came on in the store.  Imagine my horror!

I've never asked my son if he was embarrassed when he was younger and I talked to random people BUT...he now does the same thing!  🤣

Edited June 27, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It used to mortify me when I was younger and my parents did it.  Yes, we often turn into them.  She's a wonderful woman so I'm honored if people think I am like her.

My parents would also start dancing (think jitterbug-ish) if a song they liked came on in the store.  Imagine my horror!

I've never asked my son if he was embarrassed when he was younger and I talked to random people BUT...he now does the same thing!  🤣

What made it more horrifying was, after I had moved out and went to college any time I visited and she talked to strangers, she was telling them something about ME! (As if they cared, etc.) Such is a mother's pride and love.

On the other hand, at the grocery the checkout person and/or bagger always ask about my dogs.  At least they ask (it's not like I mention my dogs out of the blue.)

[Ayashe Ninetails]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oh God - flashbacks to my mom!! She would talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime. 

I do this. Depends on circumstances, of course, but I've had 2+ hour convos with phone customer service reps, shop owners (especially on vacation - I like getting the local history), customers, club bouncers, DJs, receptionists, co-workers, etc.

Used to wander into my boss' office like "I'm bored, let's chat!" and sit down. He'd entertain it for a half hour or so before sending me back to my desk so the upper management wouldn't yell at him. 😂 Come to think of it, I've done that at a few different places...

Starting up a convo in SL isn't too much different for me, though these days, I shop with much more purpose, so I rarely feel the pull to stand around in a store yapping my face off.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

I think it's up to each of us to start a conversation with others in general chat. Look at other avatars and try to guess what they are about or read their profiles. If you have something in common you can talk about that or if not you could ask them to inform you about their interests. I've tried several times to simply start conversations where there is none. I start out with some quips like, 'This place is really quiet. If it gets any livelier a funeral might break out!' which is from Rodney Dangerfield. A really general question to nobody in particular like, 'Hey all. How's everyone doing tonight? Or today, wherever you are in the world'. If somebody start chatting with you in general, you could keep it open for others to join by asking things like, 'I wonder what anyone else thinks about this?

I agree with this and even use a particular slogan to prompt me: "Let it begin with me", but there does come a time that it just becomes a little tiring to always be the one trying to initiate a conversation. Just would be nice if not so much prompting is needed and others would also take up some initiative to promote some sociability inworld.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

56 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

My parents would also start dancing (think jitterbug-ish) if a song they liked came on in the store.

I think I love your parents.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

59 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

My parents would also start dancing (think jitterbug-ish) if a song they liked came on in the store.

I think I love your parents.

They did such an awesome job, too!

[Love Zhaoying]

42 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

yapping my face off

Only SLIGHTLY disturbing imagery!

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think I love your parents.

It was even more amusing as dad was 6'2" and mom is 5'2" but dang, they could dance!

[Maitimo]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Solution: ASK the DJ/performer (or Host) if I don't see a lot of chat, if it is fine with them to chat in local.  They are the "boss" in this scenario, they are my "friend", so they are the one to ask.

 

I love local chat in clubs; if I'm hosting or DJing, you can bet I'll be encouraging it, and if at any time it goes a bit quiet I'll throw in a comment about the tune I'm playing, or about almost anything else, just to try and spark a conversation. It usually works. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

38 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

I love local chat in clubs; if I'm hosting or DJing, you can bet I'll be encouraging it, and if at any time it goes a bit quiet I'll throw in a comment about the tune I'm playing, or about almost anything else, just to try and spark a conversation. It usually works. 

I pretty rarely see hosts or hostesses at clubs these days. I do run across them occasionally, but most often the DJ is performing this function herself now, it seems?

I think people underestimate the importance of this kind of intervention. I've certainly run across my share of pretty incompetent hosts, who did little more than greet new arrivals, or would just periodically inject spammy gestures into local (which had, I think, the opposite effect intended). A really good host / hostess sparks conversations, makes returning visitors feel remembered and valued, and new visitors really welcome.

A DJ friend of mine goes out of his way to build a community from those who come to his sets, occasionally at the expense of his attention to the music! He is very vocal in chat, and dances with as many unpartnered women as he can, especially newcomers, so that they don't feel left out. I'm not a huge fan, always, of his choice of tunes, but his sets are pre-eminently social experiences, and he's built up a reasonably large group of hardcore "followers" as a result.