Blocking Ineffective

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Perhaps the blocking of one's avatar would not happen instantly.  So, perhaps it could be one has to file their abuse reports to the Lindens and wait for acceptance to disappear to those they have blocked.  Although this could be gamed too but the Lindens are God-mode surely they might know if one is truly being stalked and emotionally harassed and cyber-bullied or if they are faking it.  

Well, ok? Maybe?

I can't see this happening, unfortunately, because it would dump a fair amount of work onto LL's governance team (or whoever does this sort of thing these days) to respond with this kind of care to every block request -- even if it were limited only to those cases where the blocker also wants to be "invisible." LL has a hard enough time now dealing with ARs; this would be a non-trivial addition to their remit.

In a more perfect SL, of course, LL would respond more decisively to individual cases of harassment, stalking, bullying, griefing, etc., and apply more granular and nuanced "customized" solutions that seemed appropriate to each individual case.

It's pretty clear, however, that they don't have the resources to do anything like that; what's more, their philosophy, articulated quite openly by Rosedale, has always been to give individuals the tools to deal with such issues themselves where possible. That those tools are often woefully inadequate is why we don't take this approach in RL, and instead have police forces, a court system, etc. (which are also problematic, but that's just a reflection of how very complicated humans are).

Edited February 16, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
clarity

[Love Zhaoying]

If you feel the need to block too many people..then, perhaps there are other issues that we can try to help with.

Such as: 

- If you are blocking people that message you, always leave an "away" message on and only check messages when you feel like it. 

- If you are blocking people that keep coming back as Alts, etc. then follow the normal guidelines for "only friends can see me online", etc.  (Yes, people can still see you are online via the web. If they are stalking you that way, good luck.)

- If you are blocking people who were previously friends / known to you, it may be a good idea to frequent new places instead of those old places.  Those same people may visit those locations as alts..

Just some random ideas.

Myself, when people message me I immediately want to pretend I didn't see it, or log out - or something like that (smash my computer, go live in the woods on nuts and berries). There I was standing on my land, minding my own business, and someone had the sheer audacity to say, "hi". The very nerve!

 

 

[EliseAnne85]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, ok? Maybe?

I can't see this happening, unfortunately, because it would dump a fair amount of work onto LL's governance team (or whoever does this sort of thing these days) to respond with this kind of care to every block request -- even if it were limited only to those cases where the blocker also wants to be "invisible." LL has a hard enough time now dealing with ARs; this would be a non-trivial addition to their remit.

In a more perfect SL, of course, LL would respond more decisively to individual cases of harassment, stalking, bullying, griefing, etc., and apply more granular and nuanced "customized" solutions that seemed appropriate to each individual case.

It's pretty clear, however, that they don't have the resources to do anything like that; what's more, their philosophy, articulated quite openly by Rosedale, has always been to give individuals the tools to deal with such issues themselves where possible. That those tools are often woefully inadequate is why we don't take this approach in RL, and instead have police forces, a court system, etc. (which are also problematic, but that's just a reflection of how very complicated humans are).

Yes, after I wrote what I wrote it puts the onus on LL to accept or not accept and then that is not fair to do to LL *to decide* as it's still a resident to resident dispute.  However, I was thinking in the most extreme cases and thus perhaps an extreme case has to be filed with proof (however, what is proof has no clarity in my hypothesis).  However, if LL didn't accept that the person should be made invisible to xyz avatar that invites a whole other can of worms LL wouldn't want put upon themselves.  So, never mind my idea.  I don't think it offers any solution and could add problems.  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, EliseAnne85 said:

Yes, after I wrote what I wrote it puts the onus on LL to accept or not accept and then that is not fair to do to LL *to decide* as it's still a resident to resident dispute.  However, I was thinking in the most extreme cases and thus perhaps an extreme case has to be filed with proof (however, what is proof has no clarity in my hypothesis).  However, if LL didn't accept that the person should be made invisible to xyz avatar that invites a whole other can of worms LL wouldn't want put upon themselves.  So, never mind my idea.  I don't think it offers any solution and could add problems.  

Yeah. It's complicated!

If the situation is extreme enough to warrant special permission to "hide" from someone, then arguably it's extreme enough to warrant an actual suspension or ban of the harasser in any case. (Although god knows that seems rare enough these days.)

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So you are admitting that blocking both with the normal existing method plus a visual/presence block is not enough to prevent being harassed?

Huh? Nothing is "enough to prevent being harassed" if someone's motivated. But if someone thinks they're harassing you when they're actually talking to the hand without realizing it they'll have less motivation to escalate.

[Horus Salubrius]

Block / derender works fine for me, I can't see them or read their chat & they can't send me anything, so in effect they don't exist to me - however, they can still tip me via a tip jar, lol. 

SL seems very tame to me these days, not like the wild west it was back in the day when it was just expected that some griefing incident was gonna take place daily !  

[Love Zhaoying]

You mean, if you block someone in-world, they can still see you?

I forgot this basic fact.

Darn!

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Huh? Nothing is "enough to prevent being harassed" if someone's motivated. But if someone thinks they're harassing you when they're actually talking to the hand without realizing it they'll have less motivation to escalate.

Thing is as long as they can still see my Avatar they have great potential to harass me and even if I cannot see it, my friends and other people in the area could. That is why I personally wouldn't block an enemy. Not sure why some of you aren't getting the downsides of not having the ability to be invisible to a stalker/griefer.

[Love Zhaoying]

I'd be afraid they take pictures making bunny-ears behind me, or holding up silly signs that make it look like I agree with their philosophy, politics, or manner of living in general!

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

my friends and other people in the area could.

 

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

downsides of not having the ability to be invisible to a stalker/griefer.

For the same reason as your first remark.  Their friends can still see you so it's kind of pointless.  

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

 

For the same reason as your first remark.  Their friends can still see you so it's kind of pointless.  

You're assuming they have friends and are present though griefers/stalkers tend to be loners who wish they did have friends.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

tend to be loners who wish they did have friends.

..I resemble that remark.  That doesn't make me a griffer!

[Jennifer Boyle]

8 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

They already can visually by alpha'ing themselves out and in fact often do while griefing, so using that excuse as a justification is questionable.

But the avatar's name remains quite visible

[Ceka Cianci]

I just want this chorus to be force played when I block someone..

Because that's all I'm really looking to do is, Shaddapa their face..

 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I just want this chorus to be force played when I block someone..

Because that's all I'm really looking to do is, Shaddapa their face..

 

Itsa-not-so bad!

[Solar Legion]

Point blank for those that do not seem to understand: You not being able to see those you have blocked is the entire point of the feature. You have decided you do not wish to interact with/see them. This idea some have of such types (griefers and such) being "loners" is utterly false as well.

Having it go both ways is quite pointless on just the above (and all that has been mentioned in this thread) alone. Furthermore it does not extend to anyone around you so the potential ability to cause issues still exists in one form or another. Someone especially invested in causing you problems will circumvent the block and will take things further with each step, especially if they are aware of how it is affecting you.

Block, Mute, Derender/blacklist and move right on.

Short of canceling your own account or yourself having administrative access to head them off at the pass (good luck), there's nothing else you can do within Second Life itself to combat it.

Welcome to reality.

[Arielle Popstar]

27 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Block, Mute, Derender/blacklist and move right on.

Which to put it quite bluntly is a downright stupid idea as it does nothing to prevent continued griefing and stalking. Except now you can't even see or hear the perpetrator coming. Do I dare ask who came up with that as a viable solution?

[cunomar]

Not sure why this news headline comes to mind , any ideas ?

A serving police officer who was raped by David Carrick has said she didn't report it to the Met because her colleagues would have "laughed" and it would have been "the end of my career"

Instead she blocked , avoided , ran away for 20 years so many more could suffer the same .

 

[Solar Legion]

58 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Which to put it quite bluntly is a downright stupid idea as it does nothing to prevent continued griefing and stalking. Except now you can't even see or hear the perpetrator coming. Do I dare ask who came up with that as a viable solution?

That's nice. The viable solution is to do exactly as stated by myself and others in this thread. You are ot the system administrator, those are the tools you have, you have had it repeatedly explained to you.

Enough is enough.

23 minutes ago, cunomar said:

Not sure why this news headline comes to mind , any ideas ?

A serving police officer who was raped by David Carrick has said she didn't report it to the Met because her colleagues would have "laughed" and it would have been "the end of my career"

Instead she blocked , avoided , ran away for 20 years so many more could suffer the same .

 

It comes to mind because you're looking at real world stalking (among other things).

Congratulations - not the same thing, at all, period.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And with that, I'm not going to bother responding much to either, not in this thread. Find better "arguments" instead of regurgitating the same, tired bits over and over again.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Solar Legion

[cunomar]

Said the colleague

[Sukubia Scarmon]

42 minutes ago, cunomar said:

Not sure why this news headline comes to mind , any ideas ?

A serving police officer who was raped by David Carrick has said she didn't report it to the Met because her colleagues would have "laughed" and it would have been "the end of my career"

Instead she blocked , avoided , ran away for 20 years so many more could suffer the same .

 

That's victim blaming.
She's not responsible for the actions of others. That'd still be the actual rapists fault. Her concerns are pretty valid, given that in many parts of the world, the police force tends to be a rather close-knitt boys club where misogyny and sexual harassment runs rampant, and the offenders protecting each other. So yeah, it's very likely that there would have been no consequences for her rapist, but for her. It seems like she felt the need to protect herself from further harm, and I cannot blame her for that. Is it fair? Hell no, of course not. But it's certainly not her fault.

[Rat Luv]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'd be afraid they take pictures making bunny-ears behind me, or holding up silly signs that make it look like I agree with their philosophy, politics, or manner of living in general!

This is the one valid concern I would have   I remember once on Moose Beach, someone announced they were blocking a bunch of people, and one of the blocked ones floated above her and did a wee on her head   Local chat was rolling with 'lol's and people were teasing her on mic, and she was saying "What?" So...sometimes you're better off not blocking annoying people around you, IMO!

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Rat Luv

[Theresa Tennyson]

6 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

This is the one valid concern I would have   I remember once on Moose Beach, someone announced they were blocking a bunch of people, and one of the blocked ones floated above her and did a wee on her head   Local chat was rolling with 'lol's and people were teasing her on mic, and she was saying "What?" So...sometimes you're better off not blocking annoying people around you, IMO!

 

Or at least not telling them you're blocking them...

[cunomar]

1 hour ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

That's victim blaming.

No blame . Just pointing out that she , the victim , followed the only course of action she felt available to her because its a cruel world we live in .

Seems both ridiculous and ironic that here in the forum and in sl that the very same course of action is unanimously pushed as the best way forward .

If you block someone for being a minor nuisance then this whole question never arises . When your blocking to prevent someone teaching you to hate then this whole matter takes on a more profound  meaning .