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Open letter to Linden Lab: Enforcing policies?

Sid Nagy

By Sid Nagy,
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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Wouldn't it be better that Linden Lab provide a timer that determin how long you can be afk. 

NO.

My land is not in Search and I am paying the tier on my land, thus if I want to sit in my home from sun up until sun down, doing absolutely nothing, I should be allowed to.

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Patch Linden
Patch Linden

Hello everyone! This post, like others has been locked for going so far off the rails of the topic that I think was originally intended to be discussed, and the outward accusatory, defamatory ton

Sid Nagy
Sid Nagy

We all saw over the last few days how strict LL finds the fine print in their forums policies, to lock the for them uncomfortable threads. Fine, a company has policies and they follow them up. Good.

Casper Warden
Casper Warden

Hey, I thought I'd chime in here. As someone who operates bots which conduct grid surveys to assist with the function of our products and services, my opinion is that - regardless of the LL terms

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Scylla Rhiadra

Scylla Rhiadra

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

To LL, please don't shut down yet another thread on this issue. Clearly people have their feathers ruffled on this. I think you should communicate instead of repeatedly shutting this down, and no, pointing to a vague answer a linden employee made on one of the closed threads clearly isn't cutting it. You are a company that encourages people to come together and communicate, so try it yourself maybe? ;) 

The Bot policy page Sid linked to was last updated on 30 January 2014. I thought that was something you may want to know.

THIS.

There have been, what, four threads that directly or through not-very-subtle indirection touched upon the particular provocation for this discussion now? And it's a conversation certainly going on elsewhere -- to my knowledge, on Twitter, on Discord, and in-world.

Clearly, as you say, "feathers" have been "ruffled." Some actual answers, rather than bland assurances that don't even address the questions we're asking, would be both appreciated, and do much defuse a growing controversy that is probably (hopefully?) unnecessary.

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Sid Nagy

Sid Nagy

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

The Bot policy page Sid linked to was last updated on 30 January 2014. I thought that was something you may want to know.

There is a fair chance LL doesn't even know anymore that they have a bot policy at all.
The people who created them are most likely long gone to another job or retired.

But: a company should enforce all of their own policies especially when they enforce some of them very strict.
And SL could really do without some types of bot activity IMHO, like data gathering with no other reason than  "because it can be done" and gaming traffic.

Edited by Sid Nagy
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CaithLynnSayes

CaithLynnSayes

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sid Nagy said:

There is a fair chance LL doesn't even know anymore that they have a bot policy at all.
The people who created them are most likely long gone to another job or retired.

But: a company should enforce their own policies especially when they enforce some of them (too) strict.
And SL could really do without some types of bot activity IMHO, like data gathering because it can be done and gaming traffic.

Careful Sid, they really enforce the "do not criticize LL" policy ;)

django-unchained-criticize.gif.1d54c4f7adb7d30cf5b51bbb8238fcff.gif

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Sid Nagy

Sid Nagy

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Dat maakt me eigenlijk helemaal niks uit op dit moment, Caith. :)

I got my message through.
Second Life is worth it, to be a bit persistent and on the edge every now and then.

This platform is worth fighting for to get it even better than it is right now.

 

Edited by Sid Nagy
Then / than ..... pfffff
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EliseAnne85

EliseAnne85

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

NO.

My land is not in Search and I am paying the tier on my land, thus if I want to sit in my home from sun up until sun down, doing absolutely nothing, I should be allowed to.

I agree with you and may have jumped the gun by agreeing with her idea too soon about logging out others after a certain time of being what "idle"?  It is not a good idea to log out residents from their land except for region restarts of course, with region restarts we have no choice.  Actually, we don't have to log out but we have to leave or log out.

This is not really the problem though nor what the thread is about.

However, when the first thread was locked by a Linden, it was suggested to enable 2fa by said Linden.  It's important to take precautions and I won't be involved voluntarily in that website nor clicking any of their links.    

Edited by EliseAnne85
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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Sadly, office hours and in world meetings are not really time friendly for people on my side of the pond most of the time.

They aren't to friendly to those on us on SL's side of the pond either.  

Pretty sure my boss is not going to think it would be alright if I just pop off to SL in the middle of the day so that I can attend some inworld meeting.

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CaithLynnSayes

CaithLynnSayes

Posted
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3 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I agree with you and may have jumped the gun by agreeing with her idea too soon about logging out others after a certain time of being what "idle"?  It is not a good idea to log out residents from their land except for region restarts of course, with region restarts we have no choice.  

This is not really the problem though nor what the thread is about.

However, when the first thread was locked by a Linden, it was suggested to enable 2fa by said Linden.  It's important to take precautions and I won't be involved voluntarily in that website nor clicking any of their links.    

Nothing stops a bot from logging itself back in when it knows it went offline... Just saying.

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Lyric Demina

Lyric Demina

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

 the well being of SL itself and the residents that use it to live their Second life privately, quietly, without being tricked, gamed or spied upon and publicly displayed even outside the SL and LL environment, with no other argument than "because it can be done".

I second this (and a lot of other stuff but this very truly specifically).

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Dorientje Woller

Dorientje Woller

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Dat maakt me eigenlijk helemaal niks uit op dit moment, Caith. :)

I got my message through.
Second Life is worth it, to be a bit persistent and on the edge every now and then.

This platform is worth fighting for to get it even better than it is right now.

 

Aaacks, another Dutch speaking person :)

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Kathlen Onyx

Kathlen Onyx

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Sadly probably soon.  I am curious why all the bot threads lately.... I wonder if it's something best handled lodging tickets to the help desk?

My guess is that because we no longer can talk about politics, religion or anything unrelated to SL that some people, that love to debate and argue, have taken to now giving LL what they asked for .

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CaithLynnSayes

CaithLynnSayes

Posted
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34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

four threads that directly or through not-very-subtle indirection touched upon the particular provocation for this discussion now?

Oh yeah. I totally missed Paul's thread on it. I'll have to catch up on it.

So yeah, LL, don't close this fourth one. I'ts not going to make you look good.

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Orwar

Orwar

Posted
Posted

   Avatars used to generate traffic also don't need to be bots, I can run 3 viewers with 3 avies just fine when I'm doing photos or working on my place. I could probably have 20 viewers running with avatars standing in my home if I really wanted to, and then a few more from the other computers in my house - I'd be surprised if I couldn't fill a region without needing any bot whatsoever - and technically since they aren't bots they aren't 'bots that are gaming traffic'!

   Bots tend to be instructed to do stuff, which would exempt them from any timer based methods of depopulating the grid. So that entire idea kind of just .. Doesn't hold up at all to even a brief moment of consideration! 

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Silent Mistwalker

Silent Mistwalker

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Avatars used to generate traffic also don't need to be bots, I can run 3 viewers with 3 avies just fine when I'm doing photos or working on my place. I could probably have 20 viewers running with avatars standing in my home if I really wanted to, and then a few more from the other computers in my house - I'd be surprised if I couldn't fill a region without needing any bot whatsoever - and technically since they aren't bots they aren't 'bots that are gaming traffic'!

   Bots tend to be instructed to do stuff, which would exempt them from any timer based methods of depopulating the grid. So that entire idea kind of just .. Doesn't hold up at all to even a brief moment of consideration! 

Correct. But not what is being discussed from what I see. The problem is accounts are being used as if they were bots but have not been registered with LL as scripted agents aka bots. In other words, the issue is with "unregistered bots". 

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