Please sort out your stuff

[KeikoNishioka]

There is little to no excuse, i pay 20 odd AUD for my monthly sub for 1, voice is broken, website broken, Mp broken, Cant browse the MP! i understand you guys being busy and such but like.. wtf? Demand more money for ***** results and lesser service... way to cause the come down... 

[Rowan Amore]

40 minutes ago, KeikoNishioka said:

Demand more money

Who demanded that?  There's no need to pay for a premium account.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, KeikoNishioka said:

There is little to no excuse, i pay 20 odd AUD for my monthly sub for 1, voice is broken, website broken, Mp broken, Cant browse the MP! i understand you guys being busy and such but like.. wtf? Demand more money for ***** results and lesser service... way to cause the come down... 

Theresa Tennyson calls up the Marketplace. It's working fine.

Well, look at that...

 

Oh, and the fact that you're complaining about the website being broken on the website may be an argument against your point.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Theresa Tennyson

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, KeikoNishioka said:

There is little to no excuse, i pay 20 odd AUD for my monthly sub for 1, voice is broken, website broken, Mp broken, Cant browse the MP! i understand you guys being busy and such but like.. wtf? Demand more money for ***** results and lesser service... way to cause the come down... 

If you can give an idea of what is going on we might be able to help out.. Is it slow browsing or searching for something and not getting the results you are trying to find?

If something is broken, maybe tell us how it is broken for you and we might have some suggestions.. Because sometimes it could be simple adjustments that we might have experienced and found a way, that might help you out.

[Lindal Kidd]

Oh...I thought you were talking about my inventory.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, KeikoNishioka said:

There is little to no excuse, i pay 20 odd AUD for my monthly sub for 1, voice is broken, website broken, Mp broken, Cant browse the MP! i understand you guys being busy and such but like.. wtf? Demand more money for ***** results and lesser service... way to cause the come down... 

I've had no issues with any of the web pages or the MP.   Sounds like a personal issue.

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, KeikoNishioka said:

Demand more money for ***** results and lesser service... way to cause the come down... 

Idk.. if i go to a restaurant and don't like the food that i have been served, won't eat there again or give tips.

Likewise perhaps you should consider to stop paying and join the vast majority of us who have Basic accounts.

We enjoy SL exactly the same way you do. (i know.. you get to have a few more broken group slots and prioritized teleporting if a region is full.)

[Rolig Loon]

2 hours ago, KeikoNishioka said:

i understand you guys being busy and such but like.. wtf?

If you think you're ranting to Linden Lab, try again. Lindens rarely come here and they almost never reply to our posts.  This is a resident to resident forum, so you're moaning to the wrong crowd.

[KeikoNishioka]

I did actually think i was complaining to linden so im sorry. (Not sarcasm) 

Edited November 23, 2022 by KeikoNishioka

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, KeikoNishioka said:

I did actually think i was complaining to linden so im sorry. (Not sarcasm) 

A support ticket is about the only way to complain to them about a problem.

[KeikoNishioka]

I dont know how to express my frustration about a company towards a poor worker though? Like its the company i sometimes have an issue with =/ or their management or service or idk? Who ever makes things make a 10 + year old "Program" have issues cause "We are overloaded" Like.... uh huh.. every other week? I dont know i love SL but im just annoyed, i dident know i was venting to the community so im sorry.

[Cougar Sangria]

I've been here almost 13 years.  I have been a cloud 3 times.  Count that 3 times!  My inventory did not load completely 1 time.  I rarely use voice, but when I have the issue has always been my problem, not LL.  I have had maybe 2 times that MP did not work for me.  Website broken?   Only a handful of times have I not been able to log in.  Never have I had LL demand I pay more money, as it has always been my choice if I want to upgrade.  I'd say for 13 years that is a pretty good track record.  No complaints here.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Cougar Sangria
punctuation

[bigmoe Whitfield]

you would of had a cow in the early day's of SL.  

[animats]

It's helpful to see complaints from new users. As a rule of thumb in marketing, for each customer who complains, there are ten customers you lost.

• Note that the user is in Australia, a few hundred milliseconds from the servers. SL doesn't work too well with all that extra lag.
• Voice was broken recently, and there's another fix for it in the current simulator release.
• No idea what the problem was with Marketplace.

People from LL do read these forums. Now and then we get responses.

[Rolig Loon]

18 minutes ago, KeikoNishioka said:

i dident know i was venting to the community so im sorry.

That's OK. We all get frustrated from time to time.  That's why we have a long-standing thread in this part of the forums for Pet Peeves.  It does sound as if you are having more than the normal run of problems, though.  From a distance, many of them sound like problems that may actually be on your end rather than in Linden Lab servers, since most of us don't appear to be having any trouble with them.  I'd suggest taking a few triage steps to see if they make a difference.  

Reboot your modem and router by unplugging them for a minute or two and then replugging and restarting everything. Avoid using a wireless connection if you can. If you can't, put your computer close to the router (not on the other side of a wall).  Consider talking with your ISP to be sure your Internet connection is up to par.  SL is more demanding than activities like watching YouTube videos or playing on-line games, so if you are losing packets of information or have a long ping time, you may get connection issues and have problems teleporting.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

35 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's OK. We all get frustrated from time to time.  That's why we have a long-standing thread in this part of the forums for Pet Peeves.  It does sound as if you are having more than the normal run of problems, though.  From a distance, many of them sound like problems that may actually be on your end rather than in Linden Lab servers, since most of us don't appear to be having any trouble with them.  I'd suggest taking a few triage steps to see if they make a difference.  

Reboot your modem and router by unplugging them for a minute or two and then replugging and restarting everything. Avoid using a wireless connection if you can. If you can't, put your computer close to the router (not on the other side of a wall).  Consider talking with your ISP to be sure your Internet connection is up to par.  SL is more demanding than activities like watching YouTube videos or playing on-line games, so if you are losing packets of information or have a long ping time, you may get connection issues and have problems teleporting.

This ^^^^^ is why Rolig is the Queen of the Forums for me.

Thank you.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's OK. We all get frustrated from time to time.  That's why we have a long-standing thread in this part of the forums for Pet Peeves.  It does sound as if you are having more than the normal run of problems, though.  From a distance, many of them sound like problems that may actually be on your end rather than in Linden Lab servers, since most of us don't appear to be having any trouble with them.  I'd suggest taking a few triage steps to see if they make a difference.  

Reboot your modem and router by unplugging them for a minute or two and then replugging and restarting everything. Avoid using a wireless connection if you can. If you can't, put your computer close to the router (not on the other side of a wall).  Consider talking with your ISP to be sure your Internet connection is up to par.  SL is more demanding than activities like watching YouTube videos or playing on-line games, so if you are losing packets of information or have a long ping time, you may get connection issues and have problems teleporting.

I recently got an upgrade to my cable modem/router.  We'd had ours for over 5 years and were experiencing a few connections issues with the Netflix.  They never suggested upgrading but when they did, our speed has basically tripled.  I've always run SL wirelessly although I recently got a line set up if I choose to use it.  Since the upgrade, my wireless speeds are the same as my wired speeds.

Moral of the story?  Don't wait for your service provider to tell you something should be updated.  Call and have them bring their latest equipment.  Same price, MUCH better service/speed.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Rowan Amore

[Nick0678]

2 hours ago, KeikoNishioka said:

I dont know how to express my frustration about a company towards a poor worker though? Like its the company i sometimes have an issue with =/ or their management or service or idk? Who ever makes things make a 10 + year old "Program" have issues cause "We are overloaded" Like.... uh huh.. every other week? I dont know i love SL but im just annoyed, i dident know i was venting to the community so im sorry.

Since you are not Basic member you can also talk to Online Support (if that still exists, i don't know haven't been premium since 2014)

[Blaise Glendevon]

7 hours ago, KeikoNishioka said:

There is little to no excuse, i pay 20 odd AUD for my monthly sub for 1, voice is broken, website broken, Mp broken, Cant browse the MP! i understand you guys being busy and such but like.. wtf? Demand more money for ***** results and lesser service... way to cause the come down... 

What viewer are you using? I had to swap back to the SL Viewer for when I want to voice, Firestorm is borked.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon

[Rockridge Constantine]

I have been happy with my SL experience (member since 2008)  Sure it has its ups and down, but I tend to roll with it.  No one ever forces me to stay.  If things are not working as expected then there are proper ways to contact LL about an issue.  Plus, your experience may also depend on the viewer you are using for SL.  Not all work the same.  If you're frustrated then just log out and give it a break.

[PheebyKatz]

I was having horrific problems, like I hadn't experienced since I was new, and with all of my diagnostic and forensic experience (which is a lot, trust me) I couldn't sort it out. I did research and found that even LL had no answers when people experienced the problems I was having, and could only offer some helpful hints to enable one to even see an avatar and move around.

The only answer that turned out to have actual knowledge behind it was one Rolig gave someone several years ago, and it was absolutely correct. My entire problem was that someone hadn't paid the internet bill, and our ISP was throttling the kind of traffic that makes Second Life and my roomates' ability to stream themselves while gaming possible, rather than simply cutting us off. We pay extra for a massive connection, so they did us that "courtesy" rather than shutting it down entirely, and rather than saying anything like "hey, you guys forgot to pay us."

The result of all of this was that I had working internet but broken SL. Naturally, I assumed, like anyone else would, that it was SL that was broken. At least my SL was broken, or I thought so, anyway.

While trying to find answers to my problems, I read through a lot of screaming rants at LL. And the entire problem was between user and router or user and ISP. There are some things they can fix and some things they can't, and in my experience they really do try their best to fix things when they actually screw up. The only way to really give everyone a more satisfactory experience would be to completely rebuild everything from scratch, but then everything in the whole grid would probably have to be replaced. And it's all the Resident's own creations.

I think more people would complain about that than they do currently about SL being a butt. Sure, SL is a butt, but it's our butt.

Edited November 24, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[KeikoNishioka]

Im using firestorm as for the voice issue it only popped up i think 2 or 3 days ago but as of today is working again so im unsure =/ Again, Im sorry for my forum post, i was frustrated and dident know i was taking it out on the community, Im sorry guys and ladies 

[Rolig Loon]

Just in case you haven't already found it, here's Firestorm's own advice for how to handle common voice issues >>> https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_voice .  I have no use for Voice myself, so I can't offer you advice from personal experience, but the Firestorm information should cover most of the things you need to test.  Good luck with it, Keiko.

[PheebyKatz]

I've used Firestorm for over 6 years now and have never gotten voice to work. If you get it fixed, please let us know here, so I can decide if it's worth it to try it all over again for the umpteenth time, lol.

[animats]

15 hours ago, PheebyKatz said:

I was having horrific problems, like I hadn't experienced since I was new, and with all of my diagnostic and forensic experience (which is a lot, trust me) I couldn't sort it out. ... our ISP was throttling the kind of traffic .... There are some things they can fix and some things they can't,

Yes. I had a similar experience when an AT&T/Sonic upstream router was corrupting packets. The effect in SL was far more region crossing failures. Most of SL still worked.

The viewer and simulator could do more to help diagnose network problems.

(Technical detail follows.)

When initially connecting, trouble often appears at "requesting region capabilities". Login is an ordinary HTTPS web request on standard port 443, as far as the network is concerned. The login server has a standard TLS certificate, from DigiCert. If you can browse the web, and the SL login server is up, that step should work.

The second step is where things tend to first go wrong. That's "requesting region capabilities". That's the first time the viewer tries to talk to a sim server. That connection is somewhat nonstandard. First, it's HTTP/HTTPS, but not on a commonly used port. The login server tells the viewer what port to use. The number wlll be in the 12000 range. This is done because there are multiple sim servers running on the same computer in the data center, so there's one IP address but multiple inbound ports. This means routers and firewalls have to "make a hole" for that port. Most can; some break. Second, SL is still using an obsolete self-signed root TLS certificate on the servers. Viewers understand this, but there may be security boxes that don't like it.

So what can the viewer do? If "requesting region capabilities" fails, the viewer could run some diagnostic tests:

1. Open a plain TCP connection to ports 80 and 443 on the sim server. Don't send anything, just open and close. See if that works.
2. Open a plain TCP connection to the login-specified port on the sim server. Again, don't send anything, just open and close. See if that works.
3. Open an HTTPS connection to port 443 on the sim server. See what it says. (Normal response is "503 forbidden".)
4. Open an ordinary HTTP connection to the login-specified port on the sim server. (Normal response is "Did you try to friend an object?")

This will tell you a lot. If 1) succeeds, the sim server computer is up. If it fails, the host computer containing that sim is probably down. Logging in to some place else might work. It would be useful if the system offered an option for that. Login specifies "home", "last", or a region name. It would be useful to add "safe", to send you to some working safe hub, which is normal behavior if the login server knows the region is down. But if the region is down and the login server doesn't know that yet, you're stuck at "requesting region capabilities". If connecting to a region fails, you should be re-logged automatically and re-routed to a safe hub, with the usual warning that your destination region is down.

If 1) succeeds but 2) fails, there's a good chance that something in the middle of the network is interfering with the connection. This is often a firewall or DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) problem. It's worth telling the user this. A nice approach would be if there was an HTTPS query you could make to the server computer on port 80 asking "Hello, host server. Is the region that is at port 12345 really up?" If it says yes, but you can't get to port 12345, that's a strong indication that something in the middle of the network is giving you grief. Then the viewer can tell the user to read "Using Second Life with a firewall or closed network" Which could use an update, because it discusses obsolete security products and has multiple dead links. There probably should be a discussion of how to use a VPN (virtual private network, although that, today, is a misnomer) to get through messed up networks. Since using a VPN adds latency, that has its own problems. It may help to choose a VPN located either near you or near Amazon us-west-2, where SL lives.

If 1) and 2) succeed, but 3) fails, there's probably something in the path that's snooping on TLS security handshakes and doesn't like SL's obsolete TLS root cert. Or just doesn't like SL. This is most likely to happen with a corporate firewall of the type which installs a backdoor on your computer so they can intercept your encrypted traffic. Or from countries with national internet censorship firewalls.

If 1), 2), and 3) succeed, but 4) fails, also suspect a firewall.

Some automated diagnosis like this would help new users who currently just get hung during login.

That's just the login-time problem. There's another set of problems associated with the UDP messages and with packet loss. But this is a start.

Edited November 24, 2022 by animats