Linden Lab vs. The Residents

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Charalyne Blackwood said:

I wasn't aware LL had a beef with...

Took me too long, forgot their name!

Good one!

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am a bit surprised to hear that CDS, New Babbage, and Caledon have lost people to Belli though, as the main attraction of these places is a particular character, aesthetic, or (in the case of CDS) ideology that is certainly not to be found in the new Linden Homes.

As far as I know, this is not the case, at least as far as CDS is concerned. People come and go over the years, but I'm not aware of any who have left specifically in order to move to Bellisseria. (I do know that some of us have homes in both!)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

As far as I know, this is not the case, at least as far as CDS is concerned. People come and go over the years, but I'm not aware of any who have left specifically in order to move to Bellisseria. (I do know that some of us have homes in both!)

Thanks Sylvia. I wondered, and was going to ask Rosie Gray about it, as my understanding last time I spoke to her was that CDS was pretty healthy.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thanks Sylvia. I wondered, and was going to ask Rosie Gray about it, as my understanding last time I spoke to her was that CDS was pretty healthy.

Veering totally off topic, but that's cool that you know Rosie. She's one of my best pals there. 🥰

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Veering totally off topic, but that's cool that you know Rosie. She's one of my best pals there. 🥰

Staying off topic, but I love Rosie. She's smart, articulate, and lovely. I think it is reciprocally cool that you know her!

[Sasy Scarborough]

I think that the main hurt to commerce with Belli would be no one needs to buy the builds... so those that sold houses and skyboxes etc catering to the first home market would have perhaps seen a drop in sales. However those selling home decor etc definitely took a huge upward move.

Many that were already premium and never used their free land allotment because the previous Linden Homes were not fun, just had that tier unused, so now they use it and many became premium once they found out that they could have a nice home, prim allowance not being taken up by the build and live in brand new communities full of active accounts was just too good to pass up.

Marketplace is a funny comment, I have seen a few and people seem to have selective memory on those times. For a start none of the big name stores of the times even listed their items at all, we were not xstreet purchasers anywhere close to the volume done now, I would probably shop on xstreet once a month if at all, because I would often find an item on its pages then go to the store to see what else they had because store owners were horrible at keeping up to date. OnRez was the platform that changed a lot of it, because they had so many nicer functions (one of which was Manager role) because of that I listed for at least 6 different stores back then so that they were up to date, and people liked the OnRez viewer and the support and the online options, so when they packed up and moved on, everyone moved over to marketplace. You still find many stores that do not keep up with updating their items, and there are a lot of things that could be fixed there, but most of them are user based and customers inability to understand that leaving a bad review is not how to obtain customer service if something is wrong. Everything LL have done to Marketplace has been an improvement, again there are a few things that need sorting out, but they have announced plans on that recently, so yay.

The buying and selling of lindens from outside of LL was just bad, while it was easier, faster and for some countries the only option, it was potentially rife with the ability to launder money, and LL shutting that down was probably what kept SL alive. A lot of things over the years that made dramatic changes were LAW not LL's doing, the Bank Crisis and I lost thousands because of that (my own fault) was due to the Casinos having to close, the Gacha stuff, the potential for people passing money to those that may do RL harm etc...all legal.

Now LL looking to find a way to make the relationship between customer and seller more streamlined with one system is not a bad thing...E2v closed, Hippo closed, others that started one purchase have gone subscription or percentage etc, because things are not free, this is business, you want a product to make your business better, then it is a business expense, just as land is, just as upload fees and so on are. Do I want to pay for each sale, not really, but I pay tier for my store and I pay a percentage on MP, so really would it make any difference, in RL you have to pay for electricity, rent, water, rates, promotion etc and on top of all that what you sell is one for one unlike SL and and everything being unlimited. 

But you have a choice, you have the option to just use the built in tools that LL already provides, set to buy and you are done, keep records of your transactions by saving them to a document of some kind every month and then if a customer does need a redelivery you can look it up, because honestly how often do you have to actually do that, if you sell your items in packages most customers have the pack in their inventory to unpack again anyway. It is mostly content that updates that ever needs to be delivered again, or if someone has been away for a long time etc.

You have choices, LL have just given us another one, and that they have made improvements in leaps and bounds in the past 6+ years more so than any other time in SL history is something that most are very grateful for.

 

[cunomar]

Create something that works well then it is in everyones interest that LL adopts your legacy because even when the Queen dies the world keeps turning and life goes on .

Fair and even policy would see the creator rewarded and those who sell their creation to LL are .

As for property/homes rental the concept is older than than any bible and the wealthiest always win in that game .

I will never create anything inworld but as i see it a legacy that LL wish to adopt should be the ultimate goal for creators and LL should promote this as the ultimate compliment and a surefire way towards financial reward .

100k cash prize to whover creates newbie avatars that don't look like zombie dweebs would be a great place to start 😁

Edited September 15, 2022 by cunomar

[Lindal Kidd]

13 hours ago, Casper Warden said:

For the record,  LL reached out to me asking about things that could be improved with the second life service to help with our services and business in general. It wasn't immediately a discussion about acquisition. But we (eventually) mutually reached that conclusion.  

CasperTech wasn't in trouble or at risk, but I am certainly looking forward to being able to invest more time into development.

Much love to all ❤️ 

Thank you for chiming in on the various threads discussing this, Casper. And I'll take this opportunity to thank you for inventing and supporting these wonderful products. I do hope that they will serve SL as well in LL's hands as they have in yours (though obviously, considering I started this thread, I have reservations about that.)

[ChinRey]

19 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Was there a loss of estates in the immediate aftermath of the creation of Belli?

I'm quite sure there was but to be fair, I don't have any actual data about it. Maybe somebody else does?

[Butch Daddy]

I  dont get why some of the land owners didn't adapt when the linden homes got released. 

the original homes were SO bad and so crowded that anything even remotely better could have skunked those 512 plots. 

mainland is in a lot of places a horrible hotbed of neighbors from hell unless you own a very large chunk of land on the edge of a sim you are stuck with ugly buildings, rude people, and full bright garbage. 

someone who owns their own full island could spend some time theming out the island with larger parcels than what linden labs offers, with themed houses and common areas along with the things that users want, like no instant bans from land at flight levels, but better controls for the land owners at ground level with spacing between parcels so that you and your neighbor are not all up in each others business. 

heck, they could even set up limited/restricted commercial areas in the middle of the region, like a street with a bowling alley, or coffee shop, where users pay L$1 for a coffee, or L$5 for a game of bowling.  something that matches the theme they are trying for on the region. 

linden homes are easy because someone else did all of the work at the start.  it makes it very easy to just walk in an get a house with little to no thought. but the homes are not the end all be all.  

someone else could do that same initial work but offer better options, or better controls, or bigger parcels, or more prims for renters and they have a good chance of competing.

years and years and years ago there was a landscape creator who had a couple of islands for their "store" and it felt like you were walking in a massive garden with paths and everything all professionally designed out, but most of the individual items were also for sale, so you could click on it and buy it, or there were other areas set up like a small area with multiple items laid out in rows, etc, like you would find in your local garden center, were you could buy items.  

there are always going to be people who want the easy without thought, but just look around at all of the comments on the homes threads and there are a lot of people who think the homes are nice but want more, so where are the people who are willing to offer the better options?

if a land business failed when the homes were released it was because they were not offering what people wanted, so the people went somewhere else.  the way to resolve that isn't to kill the competition to protect those whose business model isn't what people want, but to find a way to change so that the people come back because what is being offered is better than what was there before. 

it seems to me that linden labs offered something that the users wanted that would encourage more users to get a premium account but the linden homes are free for premiums.

there is nothing stopping anyone from offering the same or better options for those who are not premium.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Butch Daddy said:

there is nothing stopping anyone from offering the same or better options for those who are not premium.

Apart from the massive advantage LL have in customer reach, marketing, officialdom, rule bending and the rest.

We can occupy and thrive in the spaces they don't operate or fail to hit the mark.

We can not compete with LL when they get it right, even if we can do better.

[Butch Daddy]

12 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Apart from the massive advantage LL have in customer reach, marketing, officialdom, rule bending and the rest.

We can occupy and thrive in the spaces they don't operate or fail to hit the mark.

We can not compete with LL when they get it right, even if we can do better.

my point is, they didn't get it right. they got it easy, at least with the homes.

the only people who can get the homes are those willing to pay linden labs for a premium account. 

there is also stuff that is lacking on the homes that someone who can afford to own islands could spend time theming them out, offering them for users who are not premium along with better options like slightly larger parcels, with more prims, and better security control, and they would not lose.

they would be offering something that linden labs CAN NOT and WILL NOT offer the users, the chance to own a decent home on a themed region without having a premium account. 

if they were also able to offer the slightly larger parcels, more prims, and better security controls, then not only would those island owners have an offering for non premiums, who can not get a linden home, they may also be able to attract some of the premiums who want the better options that they complain that linden labs doesn't offer on the homes. 

 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

17 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I don't think I will finish reading the thread for one reason. I keep seeing people claiming that CasperTech is a new business. IT IS NOT NEW. CasperTech has been around for more than a DECADE!

PLEASE get your facts correct.

True!

Casper has been around since the beginning of time! I think Wilma Flinstone used their system back in the old days!

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

True!

Casper has been around since the beginning of time! I think Wilma Flinstone used their system back in the old days!

CasperTech has been around for 13 years. lol

[Lindal Kidd]

4 hours ago, Butch Daddy said:

the original homes were SO bad and so crowded that anything even remotely better could have skunked those 512 plots. 

Yes. That's exactly the point I made in my advertising for my rentals at the Masocado Resort when LL first introduced the Linden Homes. And in fact, the original Linden Homes didn't adversely affect my little rental business.

The Bellisseria Linden Homes, though, were another matter. I couldn't compete with them, and saw my vacancy rate go up and up every month.

The Marketplace is another example worth looking at. XStreet and OnRez were fine supplements to in-world stores. But when LL took them over and created the Marketplace, it completely changed the equation for shop owners. Much like online stores like Amazon have caused the decline and fall of many brick and mortar stores, the Marketplace caused a great many popular in-world stores to close. Some of those creators continued to sell their goods on the MP, others did not and simply left SL. Either way, the loss of so many in-world stores have had an impact on the grid: fewer private regions, and lots more vacant Mainland.

[Sid Nagy]

I never quite understood the move from LL to make the marketplace so important that the shopping malls almost completely vanished from SL.
Because the land business is LL's bread and butter.

[Casper Warden]

3 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

I think Wilma Flinstone used their system back in the old days!

Willmaaaaaaa!

[Casper Warden]

26 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I never quite understood the move from LL to make the marketplace so important that the shopping malls almost completely vanished from SL.

It made finding and buying stuff easier for residents. Which is good for our businesses.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Casper Warden said:

It made finding and buying stuff easier for residents. Which is good for our businesses.

I am with you there, the whole xstreet thing was annoying. You had to rez out a box, unpack the box inside. Just to grab the contents. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

38 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Yes. That's exactly the point I made in my advertising for my rentals at the Masocado Resort when LL first introduced the Linden Homes. And in fact, the original Linden Homes didn't adversely affect my little rental business.

The Bellisseria Linden Homes, though, were another matter. I couldn't compete with them, and saw my vacancy rate go up and up every month.

The Marketplace is another example worth looking at. XStreet and OnRez were fine supplements to in-world stores. But when LL took them over and created the Marketplace, it completely changed the equation for shop owners. Much like online stores like Amazon have caused the decline and fall of many brick and mortar stores, the Marketplace caused a great many popular in-world stores to close. Some of those creators continued to sell their goods on the MP, others did not and simply left SL. Either way, the loss of so many in-world stores have had an impact on the grid: fewer private regions, and lots more vacant Mainland.

And how is this even bad? Like should all stores be on mainland or something? I don't get you. MP gives more visibility and the creators who have inworld stores are doing pretty well. I mean malls are great and all, but we don't really need 1000s of malls on SL. I like how it is now, the boutique store feel. 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Like should all stores be on mainland or something?

I think if LL came up with something just for retailers on mainland that would be really popular, like lindy homes but for stores .. and reclaim mainland to do it. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

I think if LL came up with something just for retailers on mainland that would be really popular, like lindy homes but for stores .. and reclaim mainland to do it. 

But doing that would enrage people who have homes on Mainland. I mean if I have a home there and LL came through and said we are reclaiming your land. I would be a little irate about it. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

9 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But doing that would enrage people who have homes on Mainland. I mean if I have a home there and LL came through and said we are reclaiming your land. I would be a little irate about it. 

Maybe take all the abandoned land and turn it into a shopping continent instead of reclaiming all of mainland. I think that would be better. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

12 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I think if LL came up with something just for retailers on mainland that would be really popular, like lindy homes but for stores .. and reclaim mainland to do it. 

Maybe take all the abandoned land and turn it into a shopping continent instead of reclaiming all of mainland. I think that would be better. 

(I trying to quote you not myself lol) 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

In theory, that's not a bad idea. It's trying to put it into practice that's very difficult.

LL is extremely reluctant to alter the map of the Mainland, and I think that's wise. But it leads to a patchwork of abandoned land. This happened on a smaller scale during the Great Migration, when LL prohibited all Adult content on the Mainland and forcibly relocated it to Zindra. This resulted in about 3% of the Mainland becoming suddenly empty.

Now, LL could have consolidated all the remaining occupied Mainland into a new, smaller area. But imagine the outcry! People who had bought "protected" parcels would suddenly lose their water or road access. Every single Mainland land owner would have to uproot themselves and start over on a new, and possibly less desirable, parcel.

Doing that with the current amount of Abandoned land would result in a lot more than 3% of the Mainland being lost or relocated to the new "Shopping" continent.