How long to most clubs in SL stick around.

[Hallelujah Bellingshausen]

So I have a club that I started back in March of 2022. I'm already tired of it and it isn't where i want it to be. How long does it take to really truly grow a club? Would it just be better if I shut it down and cut my losses? or keep trying?

[Jules Catlyn]

It depends on the kind of club. I know a club that has been around since 2012 but most clubs dont make it past a year

[Sid Nagy]

Most clubs are money pits. Most owners pay the bills (partly) themselves and are happy with the months that they (almost) break even or even see a little plus.
It is more about role playing to own a club than a valid business model.  It's about having fun with what you're doing.
Otherwise, best ditch it IMHO.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Sid Nagy
typo

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Hallelujah Bellingshausen said:

So I have a club that I started back in March of 2022. I'm already tired of it and it isn't where i want it to be. How long does it take to really truly grow a club? Would it just be better if I shut it down and cut my losses? or keep trying?

if your club doesn't stand out in it's kind .. forget it.
To many of the same.

[vanettda Lassard]

5 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Most clubs are money pits. Most owners pay the bills (partly) themselves and are happy with the months that they (almost) break even or even se a little plus.
It is more about role playing to own a club than a valid business model.  It's about having fun with what you're doing.
Otherwise, best ditch it IMHO.

QFT. I’ve owned a few in world stores. It’s truly about volume. I liked owning the store, and playing with different marketing, and building the perfect building, and the ka-Ching sound when somebody purchases something. But the overhead was large and I broke even some months and fell short a lot of others. My solution was to dump my in-world store and use marketplace. Suddenly profits were up and the pressure was off. I imagine the pressure is the same with a club. Surviving on donations, and tips, and (?) to cover overhead is hard to impossible. If you are having fun while doing it and can afford supplementing your love with cash infusions—cool beans! But otherwise, unless you stumble upon something truly unique it’s a money pit.

I retreated to marketplace, but these forums are a type of club—without the DJs, dancing, scripted groping and ambiance. Maybe everything you are looking for is right here😜

Also, reflecting on what Sid said… Creating a RL business model that clearly outlines the purpose of your venture, costs, marketing/advertising/PR with expected short-term/long-term returns is critical if you want to make a profit. If you build it they will come! Is not a business model. 

if you are tired of it — that’s your answer. Close shop, regroup, outline your successes, talk to successful shop owners, learn from your mistakes and maybe try again. Second life is all about starting over. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by vanettda Lassard

[diamond Marchant]

There is another type of club that, for lack of a better term, I would call  "community based" that might last longer than the traditional club you are asking about. For example, the Leeward Cruising Club (established 2009) is still hosting twice weekly DJed dance parties. The key is that there is no one club location, rather each gathering is at a location provided by one of the (over 2000) members and follows a community activity (e.g. sailing). No one person is responsible for club expenses and organizers can take breaks when necessary.

Edited September 8, 2022 by diamond Marchant

[Sid Nagy]

If you can interest some friends to donate some tier to the clubs land group, that can help a lot too.

[Ceka Cianci]

It's hard to say without any information on what kind of club it is.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

I owned a club in world for a couple years but it was on property I already had and wanted a hang out for performers I know.  Was not in to make a ton of Lindens.

The place still exists.  A friend in the amateur radio club offered to take it over when I decided to cut my SL time way down. Way Way down!

[Crim Mip]

Most new clubs last under 2 months. They are usually the same. Too large for the number they will reasonably attract. Can't choose between dance or strip club. Those both need different builds and putting in dance poles in a dance club is almost a sure sign it won't be around long. Clubs don't make their owner's money. If you aren't prepared to operate at a loss, don't even bother. Quality DJs will ask for a minimum payment to spin. Most of us are well over the opening night where it's the owner, the host (a friend of theirs), and a couple obvious friends of theirs. I've been burned enough times that I demand 2k offset by tips to even show up. I've only been taken up on that offer once and the club was gone the next month.

[Lysistrata Szapira]

If you're asking about music clubs (not live music), there are some clubs that have been around as long as I've been in SL (14 years) and more that have been around at least 10 years.

Ohana Rock Club

Wet Willie's

Blackheart's

Big Daddy's

Fogbound Blues

You've got to have good music, DJs who aren't egomaniacs, and hosts who are good at encouraging active conversation in local.   I give extra points to clubs where constant gesturbating is frowned upon.  Don't rely on "Best In..." contests to bring in people (that encourages an alt fest).  I consider it like the bar in "Cheers."   I like a place where people (not just the staff) know my name and greet me when I come in.    No club can be staffed 24/7, so have the place staffed at high traffic times in SL for whatever part of the world you're in or wherever your preferred clientele is.   I suspect that it took much longer than a few months for these clubs to build their reputation.

[animats]

2 hours ago, Crim Mip said:

Most new clubs last under 2 months.

That's what I see in Kama City on Zindra There are four strip clubs within 250 meters. When each opened, it was busy, but in two months, activity went down to near zero. I've seen others pop up and disappear when the rental box ran out.

[Lewis Luminos]

21 hours ago, Hallelujah Bellingshausen said:

So I have a club that I started back in March of 2022. I'm already tired of it and it isn't where i want it to be. How long does it take to really truly grow a club? Would it just be better if I shut it down and cut my losses? or keep trying?

Most new clubs only last a few months. Only a handful make it long term. Places like Frank's, Muddy,s the 80s Club, Junkyard Blues and so on. They are still around because they were here in like, 2008 or earlier.  To really survive like that, you have to be first, and it's already too late for that.  That said, it is possible, if you're willing to absorb the costs yourself.

A big part of the reason for failure is burnout. Trying to do too many events, employ too many staff, all of whom realise after a few weeks that RL is more important and they can no longer commit to the amount of time required.  And for the owner, they can't commit to the money either.  Another common mistake is building too big. You don't need half a region for a club. Your club and your customers will fit easily into a 4096 or even a 2048m parcel. 

The main reason though, is beacuse the owner expects to be able to earn enough to pay their expenses. That's not going to happen, unless your expenses are somehow zero.

My club lasted nearly 9 years and here's why:

• The music was almost unique. I speciallised in Swing-era jazz and played almost nothing else. There aren't many clubs speciallising in that genre and I was the only one with events during the 2-4pm timeslot.  We started as part of a 1940s roleplay region, and went independent when the RP closed down.
• I employed only DJs. No hosts, no managers, nothing else. I did all of that myself. Less drama, less expense.  (If I knew how to DJ, I'd have done that myself too - ironically I've now learned how to do it ).  
• Related to the above - I only had one event per week. That reduces expenses and reduces the chance of burnout.
• My overheads were very small, just the tier on a 2048m parcel and pay for the DJs. Even so, I didn't break even most weeks. I kept going because it was something I was willing to pay out-of-pocket for because I loved doing it so much. 
• We had a LOT of very good dances, and updated them regularly. Customers won't return to clubs with a poor selection of dances, especially couples dances. You really need to invest a lot of money in those. 
• The atmosphere in the club was lively and chatty - myself and my DJs kept conversation going, gestures were banned. customers get involved in the conversation, they make friends, and they keep coming back.

But all good things come to an end and I eventually closed because of dwindling audience. I started Club Noir in 2011 when the Swing revival was still popular in RL. But no-one is interested in the genre any more. Nearly all the Swing clubs in SL have gone and even the best swing DJs are struggling to get anyone to attend a set.  Yes I could have changed genre or broadened my range but I didn't want to, partly because Noir was Madison's "baby" and partly because all the other genres are already being done by someone else. 

I didn't mind losing a bit of money every week when the events were busy and the atmosphere was fun. When it got down to 1 or 2 customers per event. it wasn't fun any more, and it wasn't fair on my DJs.

So my advice to anyone wanting to start a new club;

• Go in with the expectation of making zero money. If you aren't doing it solely because you love it, don't do it.
• Start on a 2048m parcel of General-rated mainland. It's cheap, you'll likely be surrounded by nothing but abandoned land, and the ongoing costs are low. You can always expand later, if resources allow.
• Be your own host/DJ/manager etc. Don't employ ANY other staff in the beginning.  Don't hold more events per week than you can confortably handle by yourself. Again, you can expand your staff and event frequency as resources allow, if the demand is there.
• Have events at less popular times. The 6pm-10pm timeslots are already overloaded but earlier slots, say 10am to 4pm, are not.
• Buy good quality new dances right from the start and get an Intan or a TIS. Its a big investment but worth it.
• Put your events in the official listings. It's just about the only way of letting the whole of SL that your events are even happening at all.

So your question is, should you keep trying, or cut and run?  Well, you've already said that you're tired of it.  So I would say cut and run. The only thing you can gain from running a club is enjoyment; if you aren't getting that, it's not worth it.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Lewis Luminos

[Conifer Dada]

It's not unusual for clubs to disappear and then reappear at a different location, sometimes months or even years later. 

[Jaylinbridges]

Our Blues club will celebrate it's 14th Anniversary on New Year's day. Same management and location for 14 years and never closed down for remodeling!  Nothing special about our hands-off management. We are just lucky to have some good DJ's and hosts.  We have never used any of the gimmicks of the other clubs.  No contests, no poles, no sploders, no dancers - just a dirty old tile floor that hasn't been cleaned in 14 years.   It's about getting staff that has some loyalty, and having long term friends.  We do attract an older crowd, who seem to have more of an attention span than a mosquito of the younger "kids".. 

Our DJ's all play for tips only.  35 on the dance floor now and the DJ is over 2500 $L at half time.

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Jaylinbridges

[Crim Mip]

One of the biggest mistakes builders of new clubs make is too large a dance floor. You do that and even if you have say 10-15 regulars (pretty good numbers for a new club) the place will feel empty. People will stop coming. Secondly dance poles. Unless you are running a strip club (which means hiring dancers who actually know how to put on a show as well as a DJ that knows how to MC a show, don't. What usually happens is bottom feeders who just want some free lindens will camp on them for tips with no interaction offered at all. It also takes away from the tips the DJ should be getting. You don't need hosts until the club gets so many people the DJ and you, the owner can't greet guests. This means you don't need tip jars for hosts.

Finally, you aren't going to make money. If you even end up breaking even you'll be doing well. Any actually good DJ is going to want a guaranteed amount per show to bother with a new club. I ask for 2000 offset by any tips. I can do that because I make more than that at my existing gigs and see no reason to give my time for less.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

It's like popular blogs and YouTube channels: continuity and constantly bringing out new content on the long run is key.

On 9/7/2022 at 12:49 PM, Hallelujah Bellingshausen said:

I'm already tired of it [...] How long does it take to really truly grow a club?

How long? Probably long after you've worn yourself completely out.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[StarlanderGoods]

So, why do you have a club? What did you envision when you created it ?

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

On 9/7/2022 at 1:14 PM, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

I owned a club in world for a couple years but it was on property I already had and wanted a hang out for performers I know.  Was not in to make a ton of Lindens.

The place still exists.  A friend in the amateur radio club offered to take it over when I decided to cut my SL time way down. Way Way down!

Update: My friend has since closed the club. She sent me a NC saying she don't like the direction SL is going and scaling back.

[animats]

The club scene is going to be interesting when puppeteering gets going.

Performers who want an audience will probably have to be rigged for tracking, or look boring.