SL VR

[Evah Baxton]

I can't stand VR. But I bought the HP whatever, and I am wondering if there is some way to see what SL has to offer?

[shireena1]

Lol, just download the official viewer and log in. SL does'nt use VR.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Evah Baxton said:

I bought the HP whatever

You sunk money into something and don't remember what it is called?

Sounds like me with alt coins, heh.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Lucia Nightfire

[Bree Giffen]

Try getting into the Steam VR client with your headset. If you can get into that you can launch the Firestorm VR client. 

[Pixie Kobichenko]

11 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Try getting into the Steam VR client with your headset. If you can get into that you can launch the Firestorm VR client. 

I wouldn’t be able to try to begin w because I get dizzy easily- but/& since I could never try, how would SL VR differ from mouse-look (which makes me dizzy)?

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I wouldn’t be able to try to begin w because I get dizzy easily- but/& since I could never try, how would SL VR differ from mouse-look (which makes me dizzy)?

I imagine VR would make  you vomit!

[Pixie Kobichenko]

17 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I imagine VR would make  you vomit!

Oh it’s even worse.  It’s like the price is right wheel in my head when it gets going.  Complete with hot flashes, rash & nausea.  Have not been able to lay at all for any length of time on my right side since 1999.  I know what mouselook does, I’m just curious how VR would differ.  .  

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

1 minute ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I’m just curious how VR would differ

Both VR and Mouselook have the same camera view, as you're looking out at the world through your eyes instead of looking at yourself from above, but VR tricks your brain into believing you're really there. No way to describe that really because it's something you sense.

You could try it at like a Best Buy. If you're easily dizzy I suspect you would experience nausea.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

6 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

Both VR and Mouselook have the same camera view, as you're looking out at the world through your eyes instead of looking at yourself from above, but VR tricks your brain into believing you're really there. No way to describe that really because it's something you sense.

You could try it at like a Best Buy. If you're easily dizzy I suspect you would experience nausea.

Thanks for the response.  No I know it would be instant.  I can’t even move the screen much in SL.  Pixie can dance & move, but screen must be still.  No video games.  “Found footage” movies like Blair witch project are a no go, too.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

3 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

“Found footage” movies like Blair witch project are a no go, too.

Some series are filmed that way too and are jarring to watch. I don't feel nausea from them but begin to feel so irritated from the scenes switching back and forth so abruptly that I decide to stop watching.

[Madelaine McMasters]

41 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Oh it’s even worse.  It’s like the price is right wheel in my head when it gets going.  Complete with hot flashes, rash & nausea.  Have not been able to lay at all for any length of time on my right side since 1999.  I know what mouselook does, I’m just curious how VR would differ.  .  

I rarely read about the biggest challenge of VR, which is that headsets don't create gravitational/inertial stimulus to match the visual/aural simulations. Do you know if your vertigo issues are inner-ear related? The stimulus provided by our inner-ears and mechanosensory systems (touch, joint position and load, etc) are integral to comfortable proprioception. Your buttocks (when sitting) and feet (when standing) are integral to anchoring your frame of reference. If what we see doesn't match what we feel, we get uncomfortable. If you raise your right arm in RL and don't see that reflected in your VR visuals, you'll become disoriented.

In mouselook, the majority of your visual field is probably still the real world around your computer. This anchors your proprioception and keeps you from becoming disoriented. Nevertheless, you still feel discomfort. A VR headset would mask all of that comforting feedback, leaving you with increased sensory dissonance.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters
Added link to proprioception description.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

20 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I can’t even move the screen much in SL.

The screen doesn't automatically move a lot in VR, not in all games anyway.  You can sit perfectly still and do something like fire an arrow at targets, so there is more control than some imagine. When you see people film their VR experience on YouTube they're often simply moving their head a lot to change their view, but you don't have to do that.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

10 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If what we see doesn't match what we feel, we get uncomfortable. If you raise your right arm in RL and don't see that reflected in your VR visuals, you'll become disoriented.

Maybe that's why it feels so stressful to me, and I have to take breaks. Somehow my brain is fighting against something that's just not right!  I've heard you can adjust to it, but I've never experimented to see if that would be true for me.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I rarely read about the biggest challenge of VR, which is that headsets don't create gravitational/inertial stimulus to match the visual/aural simulations. Do you know if your vertigo issues are inner-ear related? The stimulus provided by our inner-ears and mechanosensory systems (touch, joint position and load, etc) are integral to comfortable proprioception. Your buttocks (when sitting) and feet (when standing) are integral to anchoring your frame of reference. If what we see doesn't match what we feel, we get uncomfortable. If you raise your right arm in RL and don't see that reflected in your VR visuals, you'll become disoriented.

In mouselook, the majority of your visual field is probably still the real world around your computer. This anchors your proprioception and keeps you from becoming disoriented. Nevertheless, you still feel discomfort. A VR headset would mask all of that comforting feedback, leaving you with increased sensory dissonance.

It’s been diagnosed as Ménière’s disease (it’s not a disease).  Weather affects it (storms in particular so spring & summer are 😩) as does position (can’t lay on my right, have to get into bed from one side knees first) & can not turn my head to the right very far.  Certain types of video camera taping, carnival rides, reading books.  I have tinnitus & hearing loss as well.  It just started one day in 1999.  

[Istelathis]

I don't know if it is just a placebo effect for me, but sea-bands usually take care of any dizziness or nausea I am experiencing while playing older sprite based games such as DooM.  I've read of similar experiences by others where they proved to help with the motion sickness from video games.  Strangely, and fortunately for me, VR doesn't induce that motion sickness, those older games though, that are pixilated and easy to get lost in, can have me sweating a storm and feeling like I am going to toss my cookies at times.

 

If you are unfamiliar with them, they are just like a bracelet with a little plastic rounded piece that is supposed to hit a nerve that prevents motion sickness.  It could all be hoopla, but if it is the placebo effect is enough to cure many people of their ailments. 

 

 

I also find a fan to help, I'm not sure how well it would do with big goggles over part of your face though.  

Edited July 4, 2022 by Istelathis

[Paul Hexem]

24 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I rarely read about the biggest challenge of VR, which is that headsets don't create gravitational/inertial stimulus to match the visual/aural simulations. Do you know if your vertigo issues are inner-ear related? The stimulus provided by our inner-ears and mechanosensory systems (touch, joint position and load, etc) are integral to comfortable proprioception. Your buttocks (when sitting) and feet (when standing) are integral to anchoring your frame of reference. If what we see doesn't match what we feel, we get uncomfortable. If you raise your right arm in RL and don't see that reflected in your VR visuals, you'll become disoriented.

In mouselook, the majority of your visual field is probably still the real world around your computer. This anchors your proprioception and keeps you from becoming disoriented. Nevertheless, you still feel discomfort. A VR headset would mask all of that comforting feedback, leaving you with increased sensory dissonance.

I wonder if the amount of time spent in FPS games plays a role in it. Maybe allow you to adapt easier.

Some FPS players spend thousands or tens of thousands of hours moving around in "mouselook" mode, running, jumping, flying, etc.

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I don't know if it is just a placebo effect for me, but sea-bands usually take care of any dizziness or nausea I am experiencing

These work for me too -- for any video spinning stuff and on cruise ships.  Not sure how they work, but they do.  I actually need to remember to take it with me the next time I go to any place like Disney World that has those rides that make you think you are moving -- they might help with my nausea there also.

[Madelaine McMasters]

17 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I wonder if the amount of time spent in FPS games plays a role in it. Maybe allow you to adapt easier.

Some FPS players spend thousands or tens of thousands of hours moving around in "mouselook" mode, running, jumping, flying, etc.

Years ago, I read about the case of a young man in California (IIRC) who experienced flashback hallucinations after spending thousands of hours playing a VR game using a headset (this must have been in the days of wireframe animations, as this was more than twenty years ago). VR can be indistinguishable from a drug induced hallucination, and there's a theory that such hallucinations cause the brain to feverishly rewire in an attempt to make sense of things. Done to extremes, both VR and hallucinogens can result in so much rewiring that the brain can jump tracks onto that wiring, producing flashback hallucinations in the absence of either drugs or VR.

This particular fellow was having coordination problems, presumed to result from his ability to move through objects in the virtual world. The real world was far less accepting of such attempts. This raises potential concern that the development of tolerance to VR might result in some intolerance of RL.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters

[Pixie Kobichenko]

22 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I don't know if it is just a placebo effect for me, but sea-bands usually take care of any dizziness or nausea I am experiencing while playing older sprite based games such as DooM.  I've read of similar experiences by others where they proved to help with the motion sickness from video games.  Strangely, and fortunately for me, VR doesn't induce that motion sickness, those older games though, that are pixilated and easy to get lost in, can have me sweating a storm and feeling like I am going to toss my cookies at times.

 

If you are unfamiliar with them, they are just like a bracelet with a little plastic rounded piece that is supposed to hit a nerve that prevents motion sickness.  It could all be hoopla, but if it is the placebo effect is enough to cure many people of their ailments. 

 

 

I also find a fan to help, I'm not sure how well it would do with big goggles over part of your face though.  

I’ve been recommended lots of things over 2 & a half decades.  Nothing really helps other than avoiding known triggers. Thank you tho 😃 

[Bree Giffen]

7 hours ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I wouldn’t be able to try to begin w because I get dizzy easily- but/& since I could never try, how would SL VR differ from mouse-look (which makes me dizzy)?

You don't have to go into first person view in SL. You can just use regular third person view. It feels a lot like playing with dolls. Instead of feeling like you are looking down from a rooftop it feels like you are looking down at a miniature world. I think it's because your eye distance increases in VR where it doesn't in real life or on a monitor. 

[Lindal Kidd]

This isn't meant to address Pixie's problem, but as a more general discussion of sensation in VR.

As someone earlier said, you can't really know what it is like until you actually try it. You put the goggles on, and suddenly the physical world you were in a moment before almost entirely leaves your perception. You find yourself in, or almost in, a completely different world. Turn your head to the left, you see more of what's on your left.  Keep turning and you can look at what was behind you. Look up, and see the sky overhead. Not only are you surrounded by 360 degrees of artificial world, you hear it too, thanks to ear buds/headphones/near-ear speakers.

You're holding controllers in your hands, but you barely think about them. You raise your right hand, and a right hand comes into view. Depending on the controller, you can flex your fingers and point at things. Picking them up takes a little practice though.

For me, the most disorienting thing was when the real world intruded itself. Reach out toward something you are seeing in VR, and your hand collides with your real world desk. Or try fumbling around for a keyboard or mouse that no longer exists in your perceived reality. Or your loving Significant Other quietly walks up behind you and puts his hand on your shoulder. I think my shriek made him deaf on one side. Or maybe that was when I swung round and got him in the ear with the controller.

I think a lot of the nausea/disorientation could be got rid of by MORE realism. For example, some dedicated flight sim and racing sim drivers have motion chairs with up to 6 degrees of freedom. The chair moves and shakes in response to what's happening in the simulator, so the user not only sees and hears VR, but feels the corresponding motions and accelerations.

[Evah Baxton]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:15 PM, Bree Giffen said:

Try getting into the Steam VR client with your headset. If you can get into that you can launch the Firestorm VR client. 

https://gsgrid.de/firestorm-vr-mod/

Startup and UI are rough, but I love this. Works through Steam VR.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 7/4/2022 at 5:17 AM, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I wouldn’t be able to try to begin w because I get dizzy easily- but/& since I could never try, how would SL VR differ from mouse-look (which makes me dizzy)?

Pixie, if you have ever been to a 3D movie in a theater, it is sort of like that. A big difference is with a VR headset you move your head to look at things.

I find SL VR to be very mush like being inside the SL world as I literally move my head to look in different directions. Mouse-look feels like I am looking through a window. I do not move my head. I move the window/camera. My head remains mostly still as I look at a changing screen.

It seems the two biggest contributors to VR and 3D move problems are the lack of actual depth in what you see and the disconnect between visual motion and inner ear motion detection. Part of our depth perception comes from our eyes focusing and refocusing. With VR and 3D movies what we are looking at is a flat screen at a fixed distance from out eyes. There is no depth so our eyes have to quickly adapt to not refocusing as we shift attention from a foreground item to a background item in the image. Like looking at a photo on paper or our computer screen.

Our neurological processes are trained over time. When we do something that upsets the process, or training, we have problems, like motion sickness, until we can retain those processes. Physical, pathological issues can complicate or prevent retraining.

On 7/3/2022 at 6:15 PM, Bree Giffen said:

Try getting into the Steam VR client with your headset. If you can get into that you can launch the Firestorm VR client. 

Is Steam's Firestorm version up to date?

3 hours ago, Evah Baxton said:

https://gsgrid.de/firestorm-vr-mod/

Startup and UI are rough, but I love this. Works through Steam VR.

The VR interface was never completed. Sounds like it hasn't gotten any better since I last tried it.

[Arielle Popstar]

3 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

 

Is Steam's Firestorm version up to date?

 

You'll find the latest as a link from here: Firestorm 6.5.6 + P373R VR Mod: This build includes P373R’s VR Mod 6.3.3 changes merged into the Firestorm 6.5.6.66221 release branch. Link