Person requesting a refund at a shop & hop event

[Camellia Crisp]

I'm attending a Second Life Shop & Hop event, and there are a few people who ask for a refund because of a purchase mistake. They say they bought it by mistake every time as a gift. However, it is clear at the time of purchase whether it is a gift or not, 0 Linden dollars or not. When we buy a product, the system asks us if we will pay that money. They are aware of it and are paying for it. Has anyone encountered such a case? Also, how do you deal with such a situation?  

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Camellia Crisp said:

I'm attending a Second Life Shop & Hop event, and there are a few people who ask for a refund because of a purchase mistake. They say they bought it by mistake every time as a gift. However, it is clear at the time of purchase whether it is a gift or not, 0 Linden dollars or not. When we buy a product, the system asks us if we will pay that money. They are aware of it and are paying for it. Has anyone encountered such a case? Also, how do you deal with such a situation?  

Since gifting any item requires one to input the recipients name, I don't see how it could be a mistake.

[Phil Deakins]

I have no idea what a Shop and Hop event is but, if the item is no-copy, and the customer returns it, give a refund. Otherwise DON'T give a refund. If the person can't return it, it'll be a scam - trying to get something for nothing. Ever since SL began and users sold stuff, people have been tying to pull 'fast ones' like that - often successfully.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Phil Deakins

[Camellia Crisp]

The event is a big event of "SL19B" held every year by SL. Free gifts are offered at each booth at the Shop & Hop event. My product is a copyable, modifiable, non-transferable item.

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Camellia Crisp said:

The event is a big event of "SL19B" held every year by SL. Free gifts are offered at each booth at the Shop & Hop event. My product is a copyable, modifiable, non-transferable item.

So, your initial question was in regards to the Gift you have available at the event or an actual product you have for sale?

[Phil Deakins]

Then don't refund for it. If they can't give it back, you'd be giving it as a freebie. People will try anything.

[Claireschen Hesten]

23 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I have no idea what a Shop and Hop event is

It's the LL run shopping event over numerous regions like Golden, Snowflake, Frosted & Hollyhock. They tie them in with SLB, Halloween, Christmas and Valentines. An unintended purchase can happen if you are trying to check the price and a pet, child, muscle spasm, not paying attention causes you to click buy instead of cancel. Unless the product is no copy or a double purchase the customer should suck their mistake and get on with their day. If they can get away with scamming you out of money they'll try it with other merchants

[Modulated]

The best way to go is all sales final and refund accidental double purchases WITH proof. It's the least headachey.

[Kathlen Onyx]

8 minutes ago, Camellia Crisp said:

The event is a big event of "SL19B" held every year by SL. Free gifts are offered at each booth at the Shop & Hop event. My product is a copyable, modifiable, non-transferable item.

Just say no.

The only time I've ever asked for a refund was when I first started in SL. I had put 10 items in my MP cart and bought them, all from the same seller, and somehow had repeated the same purchases about 5 minutes later. Since she could see I had just bought all of the items she very nicely gave me a refund.  It was still my fault though  so if she hadn't given a refund, well...lesson learned not to click back on my browser.

 

[Camellia Crisp]

If they are double purchase, I will of course refund. But they are not double purchases.  Every time I attend an event, there are people like this, so I wanted to know how to deal with them.

[Camellia Crisp]

Everyone's opinions were very helpful. Thank you sincerely.

[Sparkle Bunny]

Accidentally buying something because you mistook it for the gift is easily done if you're just racing round picking up the freebies. I did it once at a previous Shop and Hop, where a full-price item was in a box at the front of the stall and the gift tucked away somewhere else, but I wouldn't have dreamt of demanding a refund. Even if that stallholder was trying to pull a fast one, it was up to me to pay attention to what I was clicking on.

[Rowan Amore]

At your display, the back wall which has the Free Gift didn't rez as quickly as the rest of the booth.  Are people mistaking the SL birthday bear you have for sale as the Gift?  That's what I clicked on first thinking it was THE gift.  Just curious.

[Blush Bravin]

2 hours ago, Camellia Crisp said:

I'm attending a Second Life Shop & Hop event, and there are a few people who ask for a refund because of a purchase mistake. They say they bought it by mistake every time as a gift. However, it is clear at the time of purchase whether it is a gift or not, 0 Linden dollars or not. When we buy a product, the system asks us if we will pay that money. They are aware of it and are paying for it. Has anyone encountered such a case? Also, how do you deal with such a situation?  

I'm not certain if you are saying they purchased a product thinking that is was a gift or if they were trying to gift a product of yours to someone else. It's been a few years since I participated in the shop and hop but I do remember there being issues, due to lag, when a very few of my customers were trying to gift a product of mine to a friend of theirs. In those circumstances, I treated each incident separately. If it was a known customer of mine who had a long history with my shop I simply sent the product to the person they were trying to send a gift to; however, if the person had no prior relationship with my store then I told them I was sorry for the situation but that all sales are final unless a duplicate purchase. I never had a situation occur where a person accidentally bought something thinking it was a free gift. I always kept my offered gift a good distance from any of my vendors.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

25 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I never had a situation occur where a person accidentally bought something thinking it was a free gift. I always kept my offered gift a good distance from any of my vendors.

I've done that! But then, I'm an idiot. I think it also was in the context of vendors set out in a confusing manner. Another thing that has occasionally happened is where a partial refund was (I thought) supposed to be sent (for group membership, or whatever), and it didn't apply to the item I bought.

As Claire and Sparkle noted, it certainly is possible to buy something by accident. I have, although I've never requested a refund for it. Two issues with the CasparVend system I've had are 1) the "pay" popup not loading properly after I've specified the gift recipient (the popup will specify the item, but not include an actual pay button), and 2) the system timing out because of lag, RL interruptions, or whatever -- you've only got 45 seconds, I think, to pay. I think that if, for whatever reason, you pay after the 45 seconds, you end up buying it for yourself instead. On a number of occasions, I've restarted the process because something glitched, or lagged, or intervened in the process.

I'm not of Phil's view that everyone who messes up is scam artist, but given the nature of the system, the "copy" perms of most items, and the (relatively) small sums that are usually involved, I think it's fair not to offer refunds except in obvious cases of duplicate buying (which, again, can happen: I've done it and I couldn't even tell you how). Or, you can take the "generous" route, and assume that they are not scamming you, but made an innocent mistake.

I don't remember this issue ever arising for me when I ran a bookstore, but I think that was before CasparVend, and it hasn't arisen either with the pics I now sell -- but if it did, I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt and refund. I'd rather be "scammed" out of a dollar or so, than assume someone is "scamming" me. And if it is an innocent mistake -- as I said, they happen, as I can bear witness -- you have earned some goodwill from a once and (hopefully) future customer. So it might actually be good business sense to refund.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Chic Aeon]

Here is a bit of history over the history of Shop and Hops.

* There have apparently been some cases in the PAST where the servers really were acting wonky because of all the lag.  Reports currently that I have heard is that the lag isn't so much in effect now.

* There have been cases of sellers putting out items in "gift boxes" that WERE confusing (purposefully or not I can't say).

* There have definitely been cases of buyers trying to scam the creators asking for a refund on non transfer items -- and often in a very rude manner.  

 

Most of the sellers NOW (and even back a couple of years ago) have tried to make it VERY clear what is a gift with big gift signs etc. 

 

In all cases over time except server glitches which I hope are gone now  (including the time THIS YEAR that "I" bought something thinking it was a gift and not in a hurry at all) the error is on the part of the buyer.  I have even had folks in the past write and complain that they didn't wait for the sign to rez and "thought" it was a gift. NOT my responsibility as a seller. Yes, to my responsibility as a buyer.  

 

In the first three days of this SL19B Shop and Hop I gave away over a thousand gifts and sold a bunch of stuff. Almost all items were right click and buy including the gift which was clearly marked.  I did NOT however name the gift as "gift" so that folks can't area search and buy from a distance. Honestly they should at least come to the front of your both or cam it . 

 

 I can only remember giving out a "refund" once and that was to a new gal who really did seem to be having issues and there WAS a server error (which in theory LL should have responded to and fixed  and hopefully they did).  To HER I gave a refund in goods and she picked out the equivalent of things that she DID want rather than get lindens back.  I don't use vendors or gift cards so this was time consuming for me but I thought it was fair. 

 

So far this year I have had no requests for refunds.

 

Edit:  It wasn't really clear to me in the OP what the exact nature of the issue was. IF this was a vendor issue wouldn't there be a record of the problem on-line or a message given back to the person trying to buy? When I have used vendors this week I have been given clear error messages from the vendor when something wasn't working correctly -- this NOT at Shop and Hop, just in a store.   It seems like the seller would have access to this info (again I don't use vendor systems so may be wrong there). 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[LittleMe Jewell]

Buyers need to pay attention to what they are doing and not expect Merchants to save them.

The Buy and Pay popup windows clearly say how much is to be paid.  Buyers need to actually read things instead of just clicking.

I know that I have made the mistake of paying for something that I thought was a gift because I was clicking on things too quickly.  I learned my lesson and never asked a Merchant to refund me due to my own carelessness.

IMO -  no refunds in those cases.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Are people mistaking the SL birthday bear you have for sale as the Gift?

This sounds very likely. Because, honestly, if you came upon the item shown below, wouldn't you expect it to be a gift?

It's probably completely innocent by all involved. The Lindens have pretty much conditioned us to expect bears to be gifts anyway, and this one is wearing a party hat, drinking champagne, and has a big gold "SL19B" label overhead. On the other hand, the sample bear itself is not click-to-buy, but rather it comes in a box like all the other paid-for products in the store, so that should be a hint to Linden bear collectors.

(FWIW, my honest opinion is that this item was what should have been the gift for this store, but I know nothing about marketing.)

[Persephone Emerald]

It is your choice as a merchant to refund or not. Generally I don't think you should refund for a No Transfer item, and if you do because they say they bought the wrong item by mistake, give them the item they wanted (assuming it's the same price and they're polite). Don't give money back. When you tell them you can't refund their purchase also say this nicely, such as "I'm sorry. I can't refund purchases of No Transfer items." Even if you think they might be scamming you, don't say that to them. Complaining and accusing people of stuff only makes the person who does it look bad.

Imo, this item does look like a gift. I would not choose to pay for it since it would serve no purpose for me once SL19B is over.

[Camellia Crisp]

I commercialized this SL19B bear as a limited edition product only during the event. Free gifts are on the back wall.  I would like to tell that person, "This is a non-transferable product and cannot be refunded."  Once again, thank you for all your comments.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Given the view of the store, with the Gift vendors and the Bear as shown, I would not refund -- shopper error.

Edited June 20, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell

[Chic Aeon]

Well I had to smile as about two hours after my post (above) I got a complaint and a not very friendly message from someone saying that the item "took" their money AND their "friends" .  Even a gacha machine and the newer renditions similar put the value up there and ask -- even a tip jar asks.   The sims look pretty calm now with 19 in my sim.  I told "them" that if they believed it was a LL server error that they needed to contact support. If they didn't get the cabinet that they bought I would send a replacement.  

 

No refund from me.   People need to understand that if they are having REAL lag issues they should just wait until the sims are very calm. There is almost a month to shop.  (insert sigh here). 

 

EDIT:  I remember a couple of years ago when what certainly SEEMED like a "con" was rampant.  Many sellers ended up putting their gift in a HUGE box with floating text RIGHT out front in the center by the mall entrance. Often also with a gift sign.   I had one very complex pose prop that had presents in it. It clearly stated it was a pose prop. There were many signs.  I finally renamed the item to "this is a pose prop not a gift" or something like that. In my mind people were using area search and simply touching or buying anything that said "gift".   I think my item was "gift wrapping time" or something similar.   There were plenty of very unhappy sellers that round and some never came back.   

 

Edit again:  I just looked and the person complaining had a one month old account with no info or picture. And they were buying a fairly sophisticated piece of furniture?    HMMMMMMM  LOL

Edited June 20, 2022 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

Edit again:  I just looked and the person complaining had a one month old account with no info or picture. And they were buying a fairly sophisticated piece of furniture?    HMMMMMMM  LOL

Maybe it's their naughty- time alt?

[Bree Giffen]

When I go shopping at events like the shop n hop I make sure to have only a few linden dollars. This prevents any accidental purchases which I have done in the past. I’ve managed to get through all twenty regions with my alt. 
 

I’ve come to the conclusion that the steampunk theme is not a good design for stores unless it is actually selling steam punk products. The bronze, copper, wood and leather industrial, complicated anachronistic design does not make me want to shop at all. 

[Phil Deakins]

13 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm not of Phil's view that everyone who messes up is scam artist

That's not my view at all, and nothing I've said would indicate it. Some people do try to pull fast ones, though, if they see a possibility.

I used to sell beds for L$1000 each. One day I placed one for sale at L$10 by mistake. I only noticed when I saw that a guy had bought 6 of them. My mistake so no problem. The next day he came into the store, saying that he'd bought the bed but now preferred a sofa, and asked me if I would swap it. He pretended that he'd paid the L$1000 for the bed. A possible opportunity, and his thieving nature shone though. He didn't get the swap, of course.

On another occasion, I was in a friend's store when someone claimed to have bought an item but didn't receive it. That used to happen occasionally. My friend thought it was curious that the group of people that the customer was with proceeded to have the same problem. Or so they said. They were trying to get something for nothing by lying.

My view is that there are always people who will try to take advantage, so, if an item is no-copy but can be returned, refund for it on return of the item, whether or not the purchase was a mistake. But don't refund for it if the buyer ends up with the item for free. If the buyer made a mistake, it's their problem, and s/he can live with it, and learn to be more careful in the future.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Phil Deakins