Why does it matter?

[Maryanne Solo]

Here's a RL example of civilised society in action. (for those who have little experience of same *cough cough).
Years ago a close GF of mine in the tropics was endlessly hounded to do bar work at a local outlaw motorcycle clubhouse event serving drinks to the patrons, (about 1000), in a bikini. 
After about two years of hassling she finally named an absolutely ludicrously high fee for which she would attend the bar, one time only.
They called her bluff and didn't even bat an eyelid at the price. "Yeah! Sure! Want the cash before or after the event?"
(In our innocence we didn't realise it was all dirty money, they didn't care about price lol duuuh).
The date arrived and off we go, bands smashing out hard rock, motorcycles doing burnouts everywhere, the sorts of stage performances I had never seen before. (games of ping pong with the crowd are lame by these standards lol).
Not unexpectedly the dress code for the bar workers was thin white bikinis because lo and behold, after everyone was "primed" out come the water pistols with water/baby oil in them. -> Bbye white bikini. 😬😵
I stayed at the bar, (her "security" lol) and she & the other barkeeps spent the entire evening laughing and joking with everyone and they received nothing but the most polite, respectful and appreciative compliments and endless thanks, which certainly were very precise in their detail but the guys even managed to slur those out quite respectfully.
Even after the event, the club members themselves paid endless compliments but none degrading or derogatory and no threats whatsoever.
I find it quite odd that genuine criminals, murderers and outright supposed azzwholes can conduct themselves so respectfully with such restraint when exposed to what essentially is shiny, slippery, jiggly, nudity as opposed to the real depraved whackos hiding in the shadows. 

[Arielle Popstar]

24 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

"Relevance, your honor!"

Seriously for this to be relevant to her being assaulted you would have to argue that a woman in a dark alley at night wearing a bikini is more deserving of being assaulted and therefore has less rights than a woman wearing a raincoat at a grocery store in broad daylight, and that's just not how rights work.

Fat lot of good rights will do someone if they have already been raped or worse. It is like bolting the gate after the horse has run off. Instead of relying on rights so much, it would be better to have some foresight and wisdom to realize that there are times and places for bikini's and a dark alley at midnight is not one of them.

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You're all why I am here. (Conservatively dressed, of course, so that no one gets the wrong idea.)

I've seen your Flickr pages, dahling...you will never convince anyone that you aren't sexy as all get out.

[Maryanne Solo]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

 to realize that there are times and places for bikini's and a dark alley at midnight is not one of them.

My example prior to your post is a perfectly legitimate occurrence in the tropics.
In this case your poor simple offender would have been annihilated in approximately 10 seconds flat. No court required.

[MonkNine]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:36 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

 

He said in voice, "Why don't you want to use voice. I bet it's because you're really a guy."

 

That's what I assume. 

[Rolig Loon]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

it would be better to have some foresight and wisdom to realize that there are times and places for bikini's and a dark alley at midnight is not one of them.

Yeah, that's not using your head. I would have slapped my daughter upside the head if she had done anything dumb like that. Still, that's beside the point. Lack of common sense can be risky but it doesn't excuse abuse.  

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If you were a juror in the case, would you not want to know the circumstances of why she was there dressed like that at that time?

 

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

it would be better to have some foresight and wisdom to realize that there are times and places for bikini's and a dark alley at midnight is not one of them.

Your original question asks people to put themselves in the place of a juror, and the argument you're making wouldn't even make it to a jury because opposing council would rip it to shreds so utterly that it would make the holes I'm currently poking in it look like I'm tickling it gently!  

I'm not going to debate the advisability of wearing bikinis in dark alleys or anywhere else, I've already been quite clear about my opinion on when people should expect to be assaulted or attacked, and that's never!

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, MonkNine said:

That's what I assume. 

Most people in SL don't generally ask other avatars to go to voice when they just see them walking on a street or in a store. My question was about why do some guys do this? Women don't as a rule ask for d ick pics either, but many guys are happy to offer them like some kind of weird business card to any female avatar who is friendly toward them. 

Your assumption is faulty. Maybe you should re-read some of the post here made by women SL users, so you can change it.

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I'm not going to debate the advisability of wearing bikinis in dark alleys or anywhere else, I've already been quite clear about my opinion on when people should expect to be assaulted or attacked, and that's never!

This was exactly my point. Of course I'd never advise anyone to actually go out to a dark alley wearing a bikini at midnight because well criminals will be criminals but I also wouldn't advocate that a nun go out in a dark alley either.  If either one of these people were sexually assaulted what they were wearing would have no bearing on whether or not the act was considered r*pe or not. One r*pe is not better than another. They are all equal.

[MonkNine]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Didn't comment on all the others, just this one example of the bikini, alley, midnight. If you were a juror in the case, would you not want to know the circumstances of why she was there dressed like that at that time?

Why would anybody wear a bikini anywhere at anytime? Really it's not decent anytime. But then I'm a monk. 

[Dyna Mole]

This is a really energetic discussion, but it's drifted way off topic. The OP was about unwanted sexual comments in SL, not about RL sexual abuse. Conversation started wandering a few pages ago, but it's not too late to wander back.

[Codex Alpha]

9 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This was exactly my point. Of course I'd never advise anyone to actually go out to a dark alley wearing a bikini at midnight because well criminals will be criminals but I also wouldn't advocate that a nun go out in a dark alley either.  If either one of these people were sexually assaulted what they were wearing would have no bearing on whether or not the act was considered r*pe or not. One r*pe is not better than another. They are all equal.

Great, now back to the point.

OP posted;

On 4/16/2022 at 12:36 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

I realize people are visual creatures and are thus more likely to feel sexually attracted to a sexy-looking avatar, but if I say I'm not interested in SL sex, that doesn't change just because my avatar is wearing a short skirt and showing some cleavage. Even if I tell them I'm old enough to be their mother in RL, some guys still seem to think of me as my 30-something sexy-looking avatar.

Even she realizes this is a truth, but many here are refusing to maybe consider doing something that will minimize unwanted attention based on how you dress.

This same concept has been discussed in real life. Dress sexy and you will get more attention from guys.

What's so confusing about this?

Don't want that attention? Then change your profile, change your avatar, have a version that is conservative or w/e you gotta do.

 

Anything is better than listening to the cries of victimhood on the forums everyday for problems that can easily be solved.

Edited April 20, 2022 by entity0x

[Silent Mistwalker]

29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Fat lot of good rights will do someone if they have already been raped or worse. It is like bolting the gate after the horse has run off. Instead of relying on rights so much, it would be better to have some foresight and wisdom to realize that there are times and places for bikini's and a dark alley at midnight is not one of them.

I have been raped. You don't know what you are talking about. I did absolutely nothing to deserve being raped other than exist.

Seriously, stop. 

[MonkNine]

9 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

My question was about why do some guys do this?

Because there are so many rl men on female avatars! 

[Maryanne Solo]

1 minute ago, entity0x said:

Anything is better than listening to the cries of victimhood on the forums everyday for problems that can easily be solved.

 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

6 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This was exactly my point. Of course I'd never advise anyone to actually go out to a dark alley wearing a bikini at midnight because well criminals will be criminals but I also wouldn't advocate that a nun go out in a dark alley either.

Of course, there are some very disturbed and dangerous people in the world and sadly everyone needs to be careful not to put themselves in danger, but I think we can all agree that when an individual is unfortunate enough to be the victim of one of those people, we should place the blame firmly on their assailant and not start asking how much of the blame they should share for someone elses actions.

Anyway, I don't know how this thread got from walking around the Victorian Linden Homes to being in a dark alley at night in a bikini, but I think it's definitely creeping into the realms of off-topic and would probably benefit from a course correction.

[Solo Alpha]

5 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

This is a really energetic discussion, but it's drifted way off topic. The OP was about unwanted sexual comments in SL, not about RL sexual abuse. Conversation started wandering a few pages ago, but it's not too late to wander back.

IBTL ... because you will have to lock it soon enough. They cannot control themselves. 

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, entity0x said:

Great, now back to the point.

OP posted;

Even she realizes this is a truth, but many here are refusing to maybe consider doing something that will minimize unwanted attention based on how you dress.

This same concept has been discussed in real life. Dress sexy and you will get more attention from guys.

What's so confusing about this?

Don't want that attention? Then change your profile, change your avatar, have a version that is conservative or w/e you gotta do.

 

Anything is better than listening to the cries of victimhood on the forums everyday for problems that can easily be solved.

You don't get it.  It doesn't matter how a woman dresses in SL.  She will attract sleazy unwanted attention.  What more can one do?  Until MEN change their attitude about women in SL, I can wear a burlap sack and still get the " hey bb, want some sexy time?"

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Rowan Amore

[Ayashe Ninetails]

5 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Most people in SL don't generally ask other avatars to go to voice when they just see them walking on a street or in a store. My question was about why do some guys do this?

I gotta wonder why guys who do that think they're even worth the effort to chat with on voice in the first place. What's he got that any other guy can't match? Given his opening line, there are so many better options out there. Someone putting forth the bare minimum "Hey there, how's it going?" is already three steps ahead.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, MonkNine said:

Because there are so many rl men on female avatars! 

I saw you agree with this @entity0x.  Perhaps it's all you men in female avatars dressing sexy that give other men the idea we ALL want to be hit on?

[Persephone Emerald]

I'm gonna go look for a steak avatar, since some guys seem convinced all the female avatars are just pieces of meat. 

On second thought, given my current icon, perhaps it should be a pork chop.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Gopi Passiflora]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I saw you agree with this @entity0x.  Perhaps it's all you men in female avatars dressing sexy that give other men the idea we ALL want to be hit on?

But I'm a guy in a woman avi and while I dress kinda sexy I don't wanna be hit on....

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

But I'm a guy in a woman avi and while I dress kinda sexy I don't wanna be hit on....

That's the point. Neither do most of the women.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

But I'm a guy in a woman avi and while I dress kinda sexy I don't wanna be hit on....

My apologizes.  I didn't mean to include all males in female avatars.  Just the ones running around in sexy clothes HOPING to get hit on.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'm gonna go look for a steak avatar, since some guys seem convinced all the female avatars are just pieces of meat. 

On second thought, given my current icon, perhaps it should be a pork chop.

You can always come to me if you want an avatar makeover guaranteed to make your IM window as silent as a library.