Linden Labs asking for Feedback

[Bagnu]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On the other hand, one of the disadvantages of it is that it's based off-platform, and generally I don't like or trust that kind of thing.

Also, setting it up is a MAJOR pain.

Yes. A very MAJOR pain!!!

[Bagnu]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

What I am thinking of is like a preview window in an MMORPG.  You would have a 3d view of your avatar that you can move with your cursor to view it at different angles.  With such a preview you could manually add your mesh avatar and save it as the default, and then add items to preview them on your character.  

With this setup, demos are no longer needed to preview the gear because it will be displayed automatically in the preview window.  Think of it as a mannequin of sorts in a separate window that you can dress up as you please, it is entirely 3d, and you can move it to see it from different vantage points.  If they really wanted to splurge, they would also let you preview animations, which would be great as then we would have a better idea if the animation works well in general, or even the outfit you want to use it with.

With additional work on the server side, scripts could be used in items that are for sale, or even be hard coded into the viewer and linked to from the marketplace to give you a preview of the item when you click on them.  Much like a SLURL works, but from the marketplace it would open the preview window from within the viewer.

There is a store inworld where you stand on a pose stand, and it previews what piece of clothing will look like on you. and you can rotate yourself. Being naked is required though for it to work.I can't remember the name of the place though.

[Istelathis]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

There is a store inworld where you stand on a pose stand, and it previews what piece of clothing will look like on you. and you can rotate yourself. Being naked is required though for it to work.I can't remember the name of the place though.

I think that is pretty cool, I wonder if they use AVsitter.  I believe you can attach objects through their system, although I have never used that feature.  To set it up with multiple outfits must have taken them forever though, I think Arielle had provided a link for it earlier in the thread and I might check it out later on. 

[Bagnu]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

I think that is pretty cool, I wonder if they use AVsitter.  I believe you can attach objects through their system, although I have never used that feature.  To set it up with multiple outfits must have taken them forever though, I think Arielle had provided a link for it earlier in the thread and I might check it out later on. 

It IS really cool. It's only for women's clothing though. I can't go online tonight, but I should have it LM'd. If not I can ask my partner. She bought a dress there.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm unclear why this is superior to simply taking home a demo?

Simple example: when I try on a new dress -- which is frequently with clubbing in mind -- I like to run the demo through a few dances to see if or how it "breaks" when subjected to dance moves. There are things I haven't bought simply because they looked good while standing still, but fell apart while dancing.

Because currently the demo needs 3 clicks to buy, another 2-3 to unpack, wear then delete. Then go search for the full version and go through the buying/unpacking/wear process again. I consider it much more expedient to use a system that allows me to try and buy without wearing out my mouse from all the clicking. While trying out the system at the aforementioned store, I was able to try out other poses so likely dances too.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Because currently the demo needs 3 clicks to buy, another 2-3 to unpack, wear then delete. Then go search for the full version and go through the buying/unpacking/wear process again. I consider it much more expedient to use a system that allows me to try and buy without wearing out my mouse from all the clicking. While trying out the system at the aforementioned store, I was able to try out other poses so likely dances too.

IF such a system allowed me to play with mix-and-matching outfits and body parts, AND enabled me to test it out with animations, I'd probably be ok with it.

Honestly, I don't find the current system very onerous though. To me, this seems a bit like a solution in search of a problem.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

IF such a system allowed me to play with mix-and-matching outfits and body parts, AND enabled me to test it out with animations, I'd probably be ok with it.

Honestly, I don't find the current system very onerous though. To me, this seems a bit like a solution in search of a problem.

I think you'd have to try something like IMVU to get a good feel for the difference. It is hard to appreciate it if the S/L system is the only one that someone is familiar with. The stress level difference between them is actually palpable.

[Istelathis]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Honestly, I don't find the current system very onerous though.

It is doable, but when browsing the marketplace and trying to find that one accessory to match the look you are trying to achieve it becomes a bit of a chore.  Having to purchase the demo from the marketplace, wait for it to arrive, search for it in my inventory, drag it out on to the ground, open it, then put on the item and then repeat until I find what I am looking for.  

It would be so much easier to just click on a link on the marketplace, while your avatar is anywhere, even at the club if you wanted, and have a separate window open up on the client side that no one else could see and viola  You have your avatar duplicated on display, a perfect match that you can maneuver with your mouse and almost like magic the item attaches itself.  While your avatar remains unchanged, no fiddling with your inventory while browsing and no messy clean up after.  Imagine how many pairs of shoes we could go through without all of the hassle.  For stores, just click on the item and your preview window pops up and it automatically attaches itself to the attach point, if you don't like it just close the preview window and be done with no hassle. 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Istelathis

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I think you'd have to try something like IMVU to get a good feel for the difference. It is hard to appreciate it if the S/L system is the only one that someone is familiar with. The stress level difference between them is actually palpable.

Ah. Ok, I'm beginning to see where you are going with this -- a bit, anyway.

I think a valid argument can be made that a system native to the platform that worked like this would be a boon, especially were it to be applied to avatar customization generally, AND especially for new residents.

But I'd still want enough flexibility in it to ensure that I was able to check out new items thoroughly. I'm not going to buy a fatpack unless I can be certain the item works in all the ways I want or need it to work.

[Arielle Popstar]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Ah. Ok, I'm beginning to see where you are going with this -- a bit, anyway.

I think a valid argument can be made that a system native to the platform that worked like this would be a boon, especially were it to be applied to avatar customization generally, AND especially for new residents.

But I'd still want enough flexibility in it to ensure that I was able to check out new items thoroughly. I'm not going to buy a fatpack unless I can be certain the item works in all the ways I want or need it to work.

Well the IMVU system was developed over years of viewer updates that were specifically aimed at making life easier for the resident shopper. I wouldn't say it was native to the platform but developed slowly by a Company that had the resident shopper in mind which has not been the Lab's forte.

IMVU Shop Mode where if you look you can see the various links to Categories, search,  fave, try, buy, and with a mouse rollover on the icon, can click to be taken to the marketplace advert. There is also the ability to add different scenes, clothes, animations etc. and even the ability to invite a friend to shop with.

 

Nothing there that Secondlife couldn't duplicate if they ever decided to prioritize the shopping experience.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

Some one pointed out "off platform"  that would mean LL needs to custom make their own for data metrics and other factors,  while it's easier to pay a company to collect all that information and give it to SL at the end of the day,  a custom in house solution you might use once or twice in 20 years,  is not going to be very useful and there are bigger items to do with SL and the webend of SL.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

34 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Nothing there that Secondlife couldn't duplicate if they ever decided to prioritize the shopping experience.

I think it would demonstrate a rather skewed sense of priorities, tbh, to focus attention on an elaborate system for making the shopping experience slicker and more streamlined, instead of dealing with the mess that is "system" for avatar customization. Fixing the latter would address the former, at least in some measure.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I think you'd have to try something like IMVU to get a good feel for the difference. It is hard to appreciate it if the S/L system is the only one that someone is familiar with. The stress level difference between them is actually palpable.

I found it to be the opposite. IMVU drove me nuts yet SL is easy enough since I get to organize things my way so I can find what I'm looking for quickly and easily.

There really is no one good way to do it.

I just wish creators would include images that are copy/no trans. I like to keep a copy of the image of the outfit in the folder with the outfit so I can refresh my memory on what it looks like without having to try it on. Too many creators are still doing the no copy thing on their images. I don't care if it's no mod as long as I can use it as a reference and not have to worry about inventory loss due to some issue on LL's end. Yes, it has happened and no I couldn't get another copy of the image.

[TheVeryFirst]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm unclear why this is superior to simply taking home a demo?

Simple example: when I try on a new dress -- which is frequently with clubbing in mind -- I like to run the demo through a few dances to see if or how it "breaks" when subjected to dance moves. There are things I haven't bought simply because they looked good while standing still, but fell apart while dancing.

 

Just a simple Like isn’t good enough for this one.

If I can’t take home a demo there is no chance of a sale.

I also dance to test fit of clothing, really works well for testing the fit.

 

[Mollymews]

9 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

To this:

 

 

just thinking about how this might be done in an eaay-ish way

what Linden, or a TPV might be able to do is to have a clientside repository/folder on our own hard drive for Inventory thumbnails

when we put a thumbnail image named say "GLYPH: KG Monique Light Blond Hair" in the repository then it shows on the Inventory listing in place of the folder icon/glyph

then when we hover over the icon, it pops up a larger image if also in the repository, named say "IMAGE: KG Monique Light Blond Hair"

is quite a lot of image editing software that can reduce an image down to say 64x64 size to make glyphs from images for our own use

and being clientside then we don't have to upload the images to the SL server

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mollymews
typs

[Bagnu]

The name of the store where you can try on the clothes in a pose stand  is "Deviant Behaviour"

[cunomar]

12 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

If you have an issue with the way the Block feature functions, that is on you - beginning and end of story.

There is nothing unusual about it being one sided - at all.

Then remove the option to block , encourage the user to lash out rather than keep the peace .

On rare occasion when someone takes a dislike to me in RL i will accept it with a shrug . But if I'm forced to acknowledge it you can bet your bottom dollar they will avoid me like the plague in future .

This moron kept pestering me for 2 years and it only stopped when i let it be known i was gonna pay cyber detectives to get me a rl name and address . Which shut it up for a while . Until they decided to change tactics with alts attempting to befriend me . Rolls eyes .

[Coffee Pancake]

There is no way we could have a drop in pictorial replacement for inventory.

 

**^BRAND^** - Product Name 

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name 24 color fatpack HUD

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name README

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 1 (body1)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 2 (body1)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 1 (body2)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 2 (body2)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 1 (body3)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 2 (body3)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 1 (body3b)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 1 (body3c)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name Item part 1 (body3d)

  -- **^BRAND^** - Product Name BOX OF EXTRAS FOR BODY2

 

We have one folder with hud elements, multiple clothing parts for multiple bodies, some with multiple variations and a box of extra stuff.

Condense that hot mess into a single folder hidden by a image and then what?

What happens when you try to wear the picture.

 

IMVU assets are packaged very differently to SL ones, that entire platform is a lot simpler.

 

Any pictorial system that depends on the user sorting it out is pointless as it provides none of the desired simplicity to people who actually need it.

 

---

 

What we need is object tagging. A system of tagging each and every inventory object (always modifiable by the user regardless of object perms so we can manually retro fit it to our older stuff if we care to), including UI to bulk tag objects.

Two new fields for every single asset type

A list of text tags -  #bodytype #dress #blue #nsfw

An inventory texture that can be displayed when you mouse over an object, or used to create an IMVU like simple inventory.

 

Creators can then pre set these when putting an object for sale, we can retro fit to everything we like under the sun.

Text tags have uses way beyond making a simple inventory. The system should poll an LL database when typing tags and offer suggestions ordered by popularity, this will help keep us all tagging similar things with similar tags.

 

@Alexa Lindenasked this on Twitter middle of last year

Another Linden (who has since deleted his tweets) said he was doing this manually by putting #tags in folder names. When I suggested we have proper tags and object metadata (on twitter of all places) they suggested the I file a JIRA.

We bring things up at TPV developer meetings and get told no, its hard, we cant do that or that would be nice.

Accepted JIRA feature requests just get punted into the long grass and never seen again.

#hashtags have been in widespread use since 2007, can we get some, pretty please.

[Feyblood]

I'd love a better system for finding sims and locations beyond the destination guide. 

Hashtags might be a good option for making it easier to filter. I'd prefer to see a proper tagging system as opposed to sim descriptions ending in a jumble of words. 

Perhaps a menu in the region settings that lets you fill out tags as well as additional dropdowns to help with filtering sims. Been a bit since I owned a region but as I recall there's only one category you can set. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Here's a (sort of) silly improvement or addition that I'd find useful.

Some way to more precisely position your avatar in-world.

Using the standard controls (and if there are others that I'm missing, please tell me!) to rotate, turn, or move your avi left, right, forward or back, are all remarkably imprecise. It's like trying to move someone onto a small "X" on the floor by giving them a running shove.

Precise movement controls would make it much easier to line up for animations (such as couples dance HUDs and "hug" animations), and sooo much simpler to set up photographs. And I can't tell you how often I've tried to stand at the edge of something like a wall, and found myself faaaaaaaaalling . . .

It's just so frustrating now.

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Here's a (sort of) silly improvement or addition that I'd find useful.

Some way to more precisely position your avatar in-world.

Using the standard controls (and if there are others that I'm missing, please tell me!) to rotate, turn, or move your avi left, right, forward or back, are all remarkably imprecise. It's like trying to move someone onto a small "X" on the floor by giving them a running shove.

Precise movement controls would make it much easier to line up for animations (such as couples dance HUDs and "hug" animations), and sooo much simpler to set up photographs. And I can't tell you how often I've tried to stand at the edge of something like a wall, and found myself faaaaaaaaalling . . .

It's just so frustrating now.

Part of the problem is that you move your avatar with a keyboard command, but the actual movement takes place in the region's servers. Even with minimal lag, that means that it takes a fraction of a second for your tap on the keyboard to result in an in-world movement. Making matters more confusing, your avatar appears to move immediately on your screen, even before the servers have done anything. And then there's always lag on top of everything. As a result, as you correct and counter-correct your position, your avatar does a stupid little dance trying to figure out where to go next.  It's like two indecisive people trying to pass each other on a sidewalk.

The bigger part of the problem, of course, is that a tiny tap on your arrow keys (or WASD) probably does move your av farther than you expect it to. I'm sure LL could shorten that distance, but then they'd have people complaining about their avs moving like they are slogging through molasses. I don't think there's an easy win.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Rolig Loon said:

Part of the problem is that you move your avatar with a keyboard command, but the actual movement takes place in the region's servers. Even with minimal lag, that means that it takes a fraction of a second for your tap on the keyboard to result in an in-world movement. Making matters more confusing, your avatar appears to move immediately on your screen, even before the servers have done anything. And then there's always lag on top of everything. As a result, as you correct and counter-correct your position, your avatar does a stupid little dance trying to figure out where to go next.  It's like two indecisive people trying to pass each other on a sidewalk.

The bigger part of the problem, of course, is that a tiny tap on your arrow keys (or WASD) probably does move your av farther than you expect it to. I'm sure LL could shorten that distance, but then they'd have people complaining about their avs moving like they are slogging through molasses. I don't think there's an easy win.

This all makes sense.

But surely, as an admittedly extreme solution, one could sort of turn one's avatar into an editable object, and position it with the kind of precision that we are able to move prims and mesh around?

Avatars are not "normal" objects, of course, so maybe that would require vasts amounts of coding.

[Istelathis]

@Scylla RhiadraI would really love it if we had a simple slider that adjusted our speed in world, I do have HUDS to slow down my speed and they work to an extent, but not for turning and also they goof up my movement when trying to climb stairs.  Expanding on that, when I use those same HUDS to speed up my movement, such as when I am wearing vehicles like a Bicycle they tend to push me left or right if I move along to quickly.  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

I would really love it if we had a simple slider that adjusted our speed in world

THIS THIS THIS!!!!

O Hear Our Supplications, Linden Gods!

I offer as sacrifice any forum poster you please! (But would like to float a few suggestions in that regard.)

[Rolig Loon]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Avatars are not "normal" objects, of course, so maybe that would require vasts amounts of coding.

You got that right.   That's why I made myself a handy positioning tool (basically a transparent prim with a script and a bunch of poses in it) that I can sit on to become an editable object.  Then I can move the prim around with the edit tool as much as I like, and I can chose a favorite pose when I want a carefully crafted photo.  (That's really a rare occasion, frankly.  I don't take a ton of photos like some people.  😎 )