New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Finite]

7 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

So you can create multiple marketplace listings at the same time if its already uploaded?

If it's the same item or packaged items it can be listed as 1 listing with either limited or unlimited amounts. You only have to do it once per say outfit. You can also use that listing as a template for other listings to stream line things. I think this is what you're asking. If not my apologies.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Finite

[LittleMe Jewell]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Whereas at the very least I see this:

 A:  We are sorry that we are not able to further extend the policy deadline.  However, we have been able to extend the enforcement of the policy change an additional 30 days.  To be clear, starting on September 1 we expect gacha as a sales mechanism to cease. However we will start with warnings, and any enforcement of the policy as it would be applied on an account will not begin until after September 30.

There are still several great questions which we are working to answer with our legal team.  We will update with additional information as soon as possible.

Yes - they are going to be nice and not immediately ban your account for leaving your gachas out after Sept 1.  

And I already acknowledged that they are working out the particulars of what other items might also be impacted.

However, the basic issue of Gacha is "said and done" --- it WILL be banned effective Sept 1.

[Arwyn Quandry]

1 hour ago, Velcon Ethaniel said:

It's not lying to the customer. They know exactly what  they are getting - a female quail, or a male quail, in my example.

"It's not lying to the customer. They know exactly what they're getting - a color of the shirt shown on the machine."

[Chris Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Finite said:

If it's the same item or packaged items it can be listed as 1 listing with either limited or unlimited amounts. You only have to do it once per say outfit.

But for different gachas, it can't be done? Like, if they are uploading fatpacks, it can't be done as a batch. They have to do it individually.

[Finite]

Just now, Chris Nova said:

But for different gachas, it can't be done? Like, if they are uploading fatpacks, it can't be done as a batch. They have to do it individually.

No it cannot be batched all at once even if they're the same price. At least I haven't figured out a way to do it.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

4 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

So you can create multiple marketplace listings at the same time if its already uploaded?

 

You can make every item in your inventory that you want to available to the marketplace for listing with a single drag and drop. Particularly if its in your inventory already packaged for sale.

Creating those listings is a matter of writing them, but you're doing that on the website. For related items in a gacha set you create one and copy it, and then paste it into the next listing doing a global search/replace -99% of the text is the same- you would then just do a global search/replace for /green/(mocha|teal|russet|orange|eyeBleedingPsychedelic|whatever)/ or for /skirt/(shirt|jacket|leggings|/jewelry)/ etc.

Trust me, as a guy that used to manage a store inventory of over a hundred items, the current way of doing it is WAY faster and easier than how we USED to have to and even the old way wasn't too hard.

[CelestineDemetria]

2 hours ago, Velcon Ethaniel said:

a. Why do 7seas fish now have to be no xfer? They have ALWAYS been transfer. If someone gets a fish from 7seas and gifts it / gives it away, that receiver or buyer knows *Exactly* what they are buying, so why this change / rule?

I do not understand why 7seas fish have to be no transfer when selling and trading them doesn't violate gaming laws and isn't gambling. The buyer knows exactly what they are getting.

 

I am going to be so upset at you guys if you force the creators of 7seas to make all of their fish no-xfer. It ruins the game for me and basically everyone else.  I understand no Gachas - but at what point is too far?

 

b. How is this going to affect vendors that give out random breedables. For instance: I have a vendor that sells quail eggs...but the quail eggs are all 100% different. The vendor simply states "Female Quail $1L " and no other details. Is this vendor still going to be allowed since I am simply selling them a quail, and they know this, even though the quails color will be random?

As someone who breeds breedables, there is literally no way I can put out every breedable of every color into their own separate vendor - especially considering there are millions of colors.

Hey, I would @Patch Linden this Question. Just so in the Long Line of this Thread Maybe he or someone else of authority with the actual LL will answer it.

Have a great one.

Only trying to be helpful and get your Question looked at by powers at be.

Edited August 4, 2021 by CelestineDemetria

[Finite]

38 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You don't even have to do that. The simplest thing would be to change the script in the gacha machine to sell the exact same items directly instead of randomly. Most gacha sets seem to only briefly popular; selling older items directly, even at the pull price, may well be more profitable than keeping them as gachas.

They would also need to go in and change the perms of each to C/NT. This could be easy or difficult depending on how well organized their inventory is xD.

[Chris Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

 

You can make every item in your inventory that you want to available to the marketplace for listing with a single drag and drop. Particularly if its in your inventory already packaged for sale.

Creating those listings is a matter of writing them, but you're doing that on the website. For related items in a gacha set you create one and copy it, and then paste it into the next listing doing a global search/replace -99% of the text is the same- you would then just do a global search/replace for /green/(mocha|teal|russet|orange|eyeBleedingPsychedelic|whatever)/ or for /skirt/(shirt|jacket|leggings|/jewelry)/ etc.

Trust me, as a guy that used to manage a store inventory of over a hundred items, the current way of doing it is WAY faster and easier than how we USED to have to and even the old way wasn't too hard.

Thats actually quite interesting. But theres no way to batch list them on the actual marketplace, correct?

[LittleMe Jewell]

Please take the off-topic conversation of uploading listings to the MP elsewhere.

 

Though it probably wouldn't matter if this thread was locked at this point.  

[Velcon Ethaniel]

2 minutes ago, CelestineDemetria said:

Hey, I would @Patch Linden this Question. Just so in the Long Line of this Thread Maybe he or someone else of authority with the actual LL will answer it.

Have a great one.

Only trying to be helpful and get your Question looked at by powers at be.

Thank you. The breedables in question that I'm talking about are ones that are RGB based - old school ones, like hunny bunny, alt life turtle, and XS quail. There are literally 10 million different color possibilities so it's not really feasible to make a vendor for each individual quail.

[Finite]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Please take the off-topic conversation of uploading listings to the MP elsewhere.

 

Though it probably wouldn't matter if this thread was locked at this point.  

It's related to how gacha vendors will convert to non-gacha. I don't see how it's irrelevant. In fact its the most relevant discussion going on for quite a few pages now.

[LittleMe Jewell]

@Patch Linden- One thing that came up in another conversation:  The updated blog post says the following about fishing:

Q:  Will popular games like 7seas be impacted by this policy change?

A:  No, because the purchase of bait to go “fishing” is a purchase being made of a known item, and also the fish you catch while playing the game are non-transferable.  To be clear, if they are not currently, they must be going forward.

Many places add non-fish prizes, like outfits and decor items and such.  I'm assuming that anything you catch must be no-transfer, but the above Answer should probably be clarified, since someone mentioned in another conversation that your comment only applied to Fish and not other prizes.

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Velcon Ethaniel said:

Thank you. The breedables in question that I'm talking about are ones that are RGB based - old school ones, like hunny bunny, alt life turtle, and XS quail. There are literally 10 million different color possibilities so it's not really feasible to make a vendor for each individual quail.

But they could be made modify and then could be tinted any shade you liked .. make them glow in the dark if you like.

[Mollymews]

47 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

This doesn't stop duplication methods of no-copy content, especially with objects not rezzed/attached in a script enabled region to allow negotiations with a home server upon new/next owner.

There are some deterrents that can be done, but there are still risks to end-users that take possession of duplicated content depending on if someone already "registered" the content ahead of them.

yes it becomes problematic when we want to include a history of transfers of an item.  That there isn't a history doesn't preclude that the item can be proofed as an original work by the creator/artist

in this sense it would be the same as any other No-Modify+No-Copy+Transfer object, which have been the typical permissions settings for gacha items

the reseller market for No-Copy+Transfer has always been with us. Gacha helped to popularise this market. The question now is how can No-Copy+Transfer be packaged for sale, other than thru 'random' so that the reseller market can be maintained, if that is what the creator is wanting to do. And this is what the person I responded to was wondering about

 

 

[CelestineDemetria]

7 minutes ago, Velcon Ethaniel said:

Thank you. The breedables in question that I'm talking about are ones that are RGB based - old school ones, like hunny bunny, alt life turtle, and XS quail. There are literally 10 million different color possibilities so it's not really feasible to make a vendor for each individual quail.

I totally get it. 

That would be some nightmare listings. LOL. Prolly be here till ya Great Great Great grandkids trying to list that.

🙂

Clarity on "Description at sales point", with something like that Is definitely needed by the Powers at Be and Their Counsel.

Edited August 4, 2021 by CelestineDemetria

[Velcon Ethaniel]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

But they could be made modify and then could be tinted any shade you liked .. make them glow in the dark if you like.

No they can't... Not unless you are the creator of said breedable which none of us  in this thread are, that also has nothing to do with my question or concern.

[Sid Nagy]

10 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

But for different gachas, it can't be done? Like, if they are uploading fatpacks, it can't be done as a batch. They have to do it individually.

You always will have to change names, descriptions and pictures manually even when you could work with batches.
So working with batches is only limited possible IMHO.
It takes 5-10 minutes per new listing, at least that is my experience

[MoiraKathleen]

6 minutes ago, Finite said:

They would also need to go in and change the perms of each to C/NT. This could be easy or difficult depending on how well organized their inventory is xD.

They would not necessarily have to change the perms - they could list them with their existing perms if they wanted to.  Just because an item is no longer being sold in a gacha machine does not mean it has to be sold C/NT.  I could see reasons for keeping the original perms and for changing them.  

[Sid Nagy]

13 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Please take the off-topic conversation of uploading listings to the MP elsewhere.

 

Though it probably wouldn't matter if this thread was locked at this point.  

C'mon LittleMe, time for a cuppa maybe?

We are discussing how much work the poor gacha merchants have to do in the new situation, it is at least halfway on topic.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Finite]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

You always will have to change names, descriptions and pictures manually even when you could work with batches.
So working with batches is only limited possible IMHO.
It takes 5-10 minutes per new listing, at least that is my experience

Thank you! Someone as slow as I am. There is a way to stream line similar items using the SKU thing at the top once you've established a template. I assume most who are proficient in the MP have a bunch of templates they use.

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 minutes ago, Finite said:

They would also need to go in and change the perms of each to C/NT. This could be easy or difficult depending on how well organized their inventory is xD.

Why?

[Da5id Weatherwax]

15 minutes ago, Finite said:

They would also need to go in and change the perms of each to C/NT. This could be easy or difficult depending on how well organized their inventory is xD.

No they wouldn't.

If they want to sell them as NC/T they can. Back when I ran a business I would set a relatively low NC/T price for an item and sell a C/NT version for 3x the price. the NC/T versions were non-upgradeable unless you transferred the original undamaged item back to me with your upgrade request and I blocked them from redelivery using the vendor system I was running at the time. Anything with copy perm was redeliverable, upgradeable and you could rez as many as you like but it was only yours, you couldn't pass it on or resell it.

 

 

(edited to add: all my items were mod perm but they were all heavily scripted and the rule was "if you break it modifying it, you own all the pieces")

Edited August 4, 2021 by Da5id Weatherwax

[Finite]

6 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

No they wouldn't.

If they want to sell them as NC/T they can. Back when I ran a business I would set a relatively low NC/T price for an item and sell a C/NT version for 3x the price. the NC/T versions were non-upgradeable unless you transferred the original undamaged item back to me with your upgrade request and I blocked them from redelivery using the vendor system I was running at the time. Anything with copy perm was redeliverable, upgradeable and you could rez as many as you like but it was only yours, you couldn't pass it on or resell it.

(edited to add: all my items were mod perm but they were all heavily scripted and the rule was "if you break it modifying it, you own all the pieces")

Oh okay yes, I was assuming they would convert to traditional type sales. I'm not sure I would be as interested in NC/T items if there wasn't some sort of uniqueness applied to them like say limited availability or quantity.

PS I enjoy breaking things. It's basically how I learned to build in SL.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Finite

[Faly Breen]

ok i feel like the rules for this begin to jump from left to right and that even LL doesnt know how to handle it.

 

I mean, lets go to the latest edit and the FAQ they added at the blogpost:

"Q:  Will popular games like 7seas be impacted by this policy change?

A:  No, because the purchase of bait to go “fishing” is a purchase being made of a known item, and also the fish you catch while playing the game are non-transferable.  To be clear, if they are not currently, they must be going forward."

 

- you only know that you buy the bait, what you will "fish" or get is random nor is it set you actually GET something if anything.

- the fishes are transferable. even if they are not, i doubt this would be a reason to bann it out of SL.

- Even more: 7seas works on a rarety system. if you only use the regular rod, you cant cast for the more rare fishes, ever - making the bait a "must buy" item to actually "collect" all fishes, making the bait look kinda like a lootbox system in which the "key" is the bait, basicly.

 

With that in mind, basicly what gacha creators have to do is doing it like 7seas "somewhat": create "tokens".

Someone buys a token which he will get for 100% of course so the person will not "buy" a random item. with said token, the person goes to a machine and uses the token to get a random item, basicly like a gacha just with its own currency. I mean Prizeboxes for 7seas are already a thing and people could put their prizes on the fishing list as well, with the rarety system so set that its only able to get those items on the higher rarety catches...

 

See what i did there LL? its the same like 7seas than~

Edited August 4, 2021 by Faly Breen