New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Da5id Weatherwax]

3 minutes ago, Finite said:

Oh okay yes, I was assuming they would convert to traditional type sales. I'm not sure I would be as interested in NC/T items if there wasn't some sort of uniqueness applied to them like say limited availability or quantity.

It was a way for customers on a budget to get hold of a fully functional item. If all they wanted was one or two in their homes, they could get that cheaper than buying the copy-perm version, but accepting the risk of loss if the grid munged it.

[Finite]

2 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

It was a way for customers on a budget to get hold of a fully functional item. If all they wanted was one or two in their homes, they could get that cheaper than buying the copy-perm version, but accepting the risk of loss if the grid munged it.

Definitely a good model. I for one have advocated paying more for mod perms in the past. However buildings and homes I kind of expect to be mod/copy.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Finite

[Faly Breen]

and to add my simple question again @Patch Linden

How does this effect simple vendors with collecting cards? I already contacted LL support but they told me "Customer Support does not have any information other than the information that is posted to the blog & in official replies that may be posted to the linked discussion thread. " - which was the link into this post and the blog post everyone saw by now.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

I guess, @Finite and others, the bottom line is that there always have been - and always will be - ways to model your business and sales strategy that do not depend on tickling the "gambling thrill" button on your customers. If you want to cater to customers on a budget there are myriad ways to do that with the legit ways of marketing your items in SL, while still providing a tangible benefit to folks willing and able to pay a premium price. As an SL merchant, nobody really needs to tilt the odds in their favor on a gambling game to make a profit, Not if their products are actually any good. Even cheap mediocre ones WILL attract buyers and over time will make money over their development costs. Not being able to tap the well of gacha profits isn't going to put anyone out of business in SL unless they either CHOOSE to cease trading or simply haven't the nouse to adapt... and if either of those is the case there's dozens of other residents will say "Huh? This is gone? I wanted that.. how can I make it?" and become creators in their own right, in the new market.

Even if LL decided to (and could) erase every gacha from the grid in the next rolling restart, this would still be true.

[Romy Writer]

1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

I get that but having to do that over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, etc etc etc.....thats what i am saying. Its time consuming because there is no batch upload when you have hundreds of gachas. Thats been my whole original point.

 

Which I am guessing is how most customers who have bought gacha's and have put the billion's of extra's up for sale on MP, feel. I have no pity for that lol

I have enjoyed paying gacha many many times, but I am not sad, mostly feeling indifferent, to see them go.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Romy Writer

[Mollymews]

9 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

and to add my simple question again @Patch Linden

How does this effect simple vendors with collecting cards? I already contacted LL support but they told me "Customer Support does not have any information other than the information that is posted to the blog & in official replies that may be posted to the linked discussion thread. " - which was the link into this post and the blog post everyone saw by now.

it was answered already in the original post

we can sell collectibles, we just have to ensure that the buyer knows what exactly the collectible is before they pay for it

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

20 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

it was answered already in the original post

we can sell collectibles, we just have to ensure that the buyer knows what exactly the collectible is before they pay for it

 

once bought a gacha resell off the marketplace. said what it was "19 piece house set in blue" sweet 19 pieces,  furnish the house time,  wrong... I got a coffee table,  so the title was misleading and I reported it.   that needs to be not allowed at all.

[Silas Merlin]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Someone else brought up the fact that for some of the Gacha events, creators had to agree to never sell the items as regular store items - and I mentioned all of that also, early in this thread.   

However, given that the original creators will no longer be allowed to sell the items as Gachas, I think that invalidates any specific or perceived agreement about not selling them as non-Gachas.  

Thus, I say "Go for it" and the heck with anyone that reams you about it.

It is not "some of the gacha events", it is the intrinsic characteristic of a gacha item, the understanding that it will never be made available for sale directly by the creator in Second Life.

The new policy does not suddenly make it alright to break that rule.
It would make the millions(?) of gacha items out there worthless.

The only way that I can continue to sell my gacha items after the end of this month is if a new system to make the items difficult to get is approved by Linden Lab.


EDIT : added "in Second Life" to the first paragraph.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Silas Merlin

[Da5id Weatherwax]

1 minute ago, Silas Merlin said:

The only way that I can continue to sell my gacha items after the end of this month is if a new system to make the items difficult to get is approved by Linden Lab.

oink, flap...

[Mollymews]

9 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

once bought a gacha resell off the marketplace. said what it was "19 piece house set in blue" sweet 19 pieces,  furnish the house time,  wrong... I got a coffee table,  so the title was misleading and I reported it.   that needs to be not allowed at all.

it falls under the Not As Advertised marketplace rule which you applied by reporting it

stuff that is Not As Advertised isn't particular to gacha

[Rosa Hexem]

1 hour ago, Faly Breen said:

ok i feel like the rules for this begin to jump from left to right and that even LL doesnt know how to handle it.

 

I mean, lets go to the latest edit and the FAQ they added at the blogpost:

"Q:  Will popular games like 7seas be impacted by this policy change?

A:  No, because the purchase of bait to go “fishing” is a purchase being made of a known item, and also the fish you catch while playing the game are non-transferable.  To be clear, if they are not currently, they must be going forward."

 

- you only know that you buy the bait, what you will "fish" or get is random nor is it set you actually GET something if anything.

- the fishes are transferable. even if they are not, i doubt this would be a reason to bann it out of SL.

- Even more: 7seas works on a rarety system. if you only use the regular rod, you cant cast for the more rare fishes, ever - making the bait a "must buy" item to actually "collect" all fishes, making the bait look kinda like a lootbox system in which the "key" is the bait, basicly.

 

With that in mind, basicly what gacha creators have to do is doing it like 7seas "somewhat": create "tokens".

Someone buys a token which he will get for 100% of course so the person will not "buy" a random item. with said token, the person goes to a machine and uses the token to get a random item, basicly like a gacha just with its own currency. I mean Prizeboxes for 7seas are already a thing and people could put their prizes on the fishing list as well, with the rarety system so set that its only able to get those items on the higher rarety catches...

 

See what i did there LL? its the same like 7seas than~

I made a similar hypothetical earlier back in the thread, though this one raises other new interesting points about how 7seas reflects on gacha-like systems. While this can be used to critique the uneven application of these anti-gacha rules on SL, it might really just be the dna for the thing that replaces gacha. if 7seas or some breedable systems are a model for acceptable, permissable pay-for-a-chance systems then maybe that's what people should start basing new vendor ideas around.

[Rathgrith027]

15 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

It is not "some of the gacha events", it is the intrinsic characteristic of a gacha item, the understanding that it will never be made available for sale directly by the creator in Second Life.

The new policy does not suddenly make it alright to break that rule.
It would make the millions(?) of gacha items out there worthless.

The only way that I can continue to sell my gacha items after the end of this month is if a new system to make the items difficult to get is approved by Linden Lab.


EDIT : added "in Second Life" to the first paragraph.

If creating your art relies on some sort of rarity that isn't covered by limited releases, than I and others don't know what to tell you.

[ARD1994]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

#1 - LL actually does put limits on how many L$ you can buy in a month and in a 24-hour period.  Go check this page on your account info:  https://accounts.secondlife.com/lindex/economic_limits

#2 - You are possibly correct in that LL doesn't care about your addictions - though you might also be wrong.  However, that does NOT matter because they are doing this for LEGAL reasons, not because someone might or might not be addicted to Gachas.

This is the limit that you can buy from them fronte the lindex exchange but if u Want to buy normally there is not limit....and second the LEGAL reason is that Lootboxes are illegal since years and they wake up right now? 

Edited August 5, 2021 by ARD1994

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

It is not "some of the gacha events", it is the intrinsic characteristic of a gacha item, the understanding that it will never be made available for sale directly by the creator in Second Life.

The new policy does not suddenly make it alright to break that rule.
It would make the millions(?) of gacha items out there worthless.

The only way that I can continue to sell my gacha items after the end of this month is if a new system to make the items difficult to get is approved by Linden Lab.


EDIT : added "in Second Life" to the first paragraph

I think it would be nice.to hear from one of these events to know how they stand on continuing to not allow you to sell your own products now that they can't be sold as gachas.  I, for one, would look down on any event that held any creator to the no sale clause as the new rule seems to make it null and void.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, ARD1994 said:

This is the limit that you can buy from them fronte the lindex exchange but if u Want to buy normally there is not limit

Where else would you buy them?

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I think it would be nice.to hear from one of these events to know how they stand on continuing to not allow you to sell your own products now that they can't be sold as gachas.  I, for one, would look down on any event that held any creator to the no sale clause as the new rule seems to make it null and void.

Personally, I would never have agreed to any rule that dictates when, where and/or how I can sell my products. That is an emphatic NO!

Edited August 5, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Da5id Weatherwax]

1 minute ago, ARD1994 said:

This is the limit that you can buy from them fronte the lindex exchange but if u Want to buy normally there is not limit

You are aware that buying $L with real money from anywhere BUT the lindex exchange is a TOS violation, right? LL banned 3rd-party exchanges and their use ages ago... so "normally" is exactly where @LittleMe Jewell is talking about.

[ARD1994]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Where else would you buy them?

When u want to buy linden u have 2 options the first is to buy normally but you will have less lindens and the second one is from the exchange where u can buy lindens (Like for selling) at different quote and Maybe u have to wait a bit and the limits are just for the second option

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

Personally, I would never have agree to any rule that dictates when, where and/or how I can sell my products. That is an emphatic NO!

Me neither but apparently they did do.it and creators agreed.  But, with the new.rules.in place, that would essential tell the creators.they could NEVER sell their own product again, ever.  NO ONE would expect an event to hold a creator to.that clause.  Unless they never wanted to have another event.  People would be outraged.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, ARD1994 said:

When u want to buy linden u have 2 options the first is to buy normally but you will have less lindens and the second one is from the exchange where u can buy lindens (Like for selling) at different quote and Maybe u have to wait a bit and the limits are just for the second option

There is still a limit to how much you can purchase.  The term Limit Buy does.not mean a limit on how.much you can spend per day.

[Rathgrith027]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Personally, I would never have agree to any rule that dictates when, where and/or how I can sell my products. That is an emphatic NO!

Although I'm not a creator (Though the idea of pursuing blender for SL purposes has been tempting..) I do agree that I and anyone in their right mind should never agree to indefinite exclusivity deals for events. I don't care if you're Crystal Heart Festival or The Arcade, I won't have it.

[Rathgrith027]

6 minutes ago, ARD1994 said:

When u want to buy linden u have 2 options the first is to buy normally but you will have less lindens and the second one is from the exchange where u can buy lindens (Like for selling) at different quote and Maybe u have to wait a bit and the limits are just for the second option

Limit and Market buys are both restricted by Linden Lab under the maximum transaction amount system. You cannot place either a Limit (Where you buy at a requested L$-to-USD value) or Market Buy (When you buy at what Linden Lab's economics team has defined as what they believe the L$ is worth, based on market data) when the order exceeds what your account is allowed to purchase. Any more requires you to either wait until either the daily or monthly limit is reset (whichever is not totally expended), or place a bulk order with Linden Lab.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Rathgrith027

[JoJo Aurelia]

Like many, I had a love hate relationship to Gachas. At a Gacha event, no, fine, but some creators used gachas at every event.  I rarely played those...usually look up on MP what the resells was going for. 

I also had them in my stores years ago.  I, like many, looked forward to the array of interesting things being resold. Irregardless of gambling, there is a swath of residents who'll lose their income.  Resale is huge, with many resell sites and a category on Market Place. 

I remember when sploder was taken away too. I loved Sploder, it was great fun at a club... 

I'm so very sorry to resellers, creators and residents who enjoyed gachas. Such a shame.

[JoJo Aurelia]

1 hour ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

I guess, @Finite and others, the bottom line is that there always have been - and always will be - ways to model your business and sales strategy that do not depend on tickling the "gambling thrill" button on your customers. If you want to cater to customers on a budget there are myriad ways to do that with the legit ways of marketing your items in SL, while still providing a tangible benefit to folks willing and able to pay a premium price. As an SL merchant, nobody really needs to tilt the odds in their favor on a gambling game to make a profit, Not if their products are actually any good. Even cheap mediocre ones WILL attract buyers and over time will make money over their development costs. Not being able to tap the well of gacha profits isn't going to put anyone out of business in SL unless they either CHOOSE to cease trading or simply haven't the nouse to adapt... and if either of those is the case there's dozens of other residents will say "Huh? This is gone? I wanted that.. how can I make it?" and become creators in their own right, in the new market.

Even if LL decided to (and could) erase every gacha from the grid in the next rolling restart, this would still be true.

I don't think anyone is tricked. So, are the gaming centers closing next?

Edited August 5, 2021 by JoJo Aurelia
Mispelled

[Silas Merlin]

16 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I think it would be nice.to hear from one of these events to know how they stand on continuing to not allow you to sell your own products now that they can't be sold as gachas.  I, for one, would look down on any event that held any creator to the no sale clause as the new rule seems to make it null and void.

It is not the events. there is noone to enforce a rule, it is just what a gacha is.