Ted McGregor Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, ChinRey said: Maybe they were bored? Or maybe they got drunk at their local pub one night and made a stupid bet? Or maybe it's part of some ancient mating ritual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: 2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said: Why would they come all the way from their planetary system just to scare some people on this globe with some flashing lights and then go home again? https://www.space.com/35676-einstein-spooky-action-starlight-quantum-entanglement.html I think Sid's question is fairly independent of any potential method by which aliens might visit or communicate. If they have such methods, they're clearly well ahead of our understanding of physics and mastery of technology and curious enough to investigate. Reports that these UFOs are shadowing a few special humans (military pilots) , while not being seen by the nearly eight billion remaining humans, suggests a degree of interest in human activity that simply makes no sense given the astronomical imbalance in technological prowess. It's a lot easier to imagine that a few special humans could wind each other up with improbable ideas. My father started his military career in the submarine service. In the late 30's, he found himself on a submarine with a screwy first officer who harbored a desire to "roll the boat". Dad pointed out that the batteries had vented caps, were held in place by gravity, and would spill their sulfuric acid into the boat while upside down. The first officer replied that they'd simply need to work up enough speed to make the roll fast enough for centripetal force to overcome gravity. It's a funny story now, but that first officer was serious and planned to execute the maneuver once he got a command of his own. When sufficient evidence was presented to the captain, the first officer was relieved of command and shipped stateside. This would not be the only nutcase Dad encountered during his 13 years in the Navy. He encountered fewer of them in civilian life, though he did father one. ETA: Entanglement at macro scale... https://scitechdaily.com/quantum-entanglement-of-15-trillion-atoms-at-450-kelvin-with-surprising-results/ Edited May 27, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, BiliEyelash said: Imagine a group of humans selected for such a journey, and then imagine their descendants though multiple generations, over hundreds or even thousands of years remaining focused and committed to the mission. Normal human traits like greed, selfishness, lust, and the like, never rearing thier ugly heads to mess everything up. Maybe the aliens are different, but all those ugly traits have been selected by evolution because they have helped to insure survival, and allowed for advancement. Nature is nature. The aliens are not going to be much different, and they will kill each other before they get very far across the Universe. If you had read the whole article, you'd know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardy Lay Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said: Why would they come all the way from their planetary system just to scare some people on this globe with some flashing lights and then go home again? Why assume they went home afterward? In fact, why assume they have to leave their home to tease us with something we do not comprehend as we might tease a cat with a beam of light? Our physics might not be their physics. Edited May 27, 2021 by Ardy Lay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BiliEyelash said: Imagine a group of humans selected for such a journey, and then imagine their descendants though multiple generations, over hundreds or even thousands of years remaining focused and committed to the mission. Normal human traits like greed, selfishness, lust, and the like, never rearing thier ugly heads to mess everything up. Maybe the aliens are different, but all those ugly traits have been selected by evolution because they have helped to insure survival, and allowed for advancement. Nature is nature. The aliens are not going to be much different, and they will kill each other before they get very far across the Universe. You are imagining a civilization that undertakes such a voyage seemingly unaware of pitfalls we already comprehend. Why would you think they're knowledgeable enough to master interstellar space travel, but too ignorant of their own behavior to succeed? I call this "sci-fi thinking", where all the scenarios are the imaginings of humans. I think any alien civilization capable of amazing us with their technical prowess will also amaze us with their civility. It's hard to imagine they could avoid self destruction if they hadn't mastered themselves. ETA: This all presumes that our intelligence is recognized as such by the aliens. If we appear as bacteria to them, all bets are off. ;-). Edited May 27, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiliEyelash Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 53 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: That's assuming all life everywhere is like us. Big assumption. However, as Carl Sagan argued, it is very difficult to be certain whether a statement that applies to all life on Earth will turn out to apply to all life throughout the universe Considering that the same elements exist everywhere, and the same laws of physics do as well, it is not that unreasonable to assume evolution would work the same everywhere as well. Of course Sagan is in the business of selling books, and the message that there are wonderful worlds out there sells a lot more books than they are out there and as messed up as we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BiliEyelash said: Considering that the same elements exist everywhere, and the same laws of physics do as well, it is not that unreasonable to assume evolution would work the same everywhere as well. Of course Sagan is in the business of selling books, and the message that there are wonderful worlds out there sells a lot more books than they are out there and as messed up as we are. Consider that even from a biological perspective that life as we know and mostly understand it, has some "unnatural" aspects to it, starting with this thing called death. Why did life evolve in a way wherein we get old and eventually die? Wouldn't or shouldn't evolution have selected those whose cells continually regenerate to live forever? That capacity does exist. A life form such as that between being immortal and a capacity for epigenetics could theoretically evolve to where we are now physically and intellectually in a lot shorter time than what it has taken us. Edited May 27, 2021 by Arielle Popstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) We should have all been born water bears. Edit: Edited May 27, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Imagine where we'll be in a thousand years. Pushing up the daisies! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: Pushing up the daisies! Not me! I'll be raining down on all of humanity, just like Mom and Dad, who's ashes set sail in a weather balloon last Halloween. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 31 minutes ago, BiliEyelash said: Considering that the same elements exist everywhere, and the same laws of physics do as well, it is not that unreasonable to assume evolution would work the same everywhere as well. Of course Sagan is in the business of selling books, and the message that there are wonderful worlds out there sells a lot more books than they are out there and as messed up as we are. But that is still an assumption based on what we know which in reality is very little. Discoveries have been made that until discovered, we said couldn't exist and shouldn't exist. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/top-ten-places-where-life-shouldnt-exist-but-does-144112310/ Everything on earth is carbon based. We assume everything everywhere must be also. Why? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry Just because we don't see it HERE, doesn't mean it can't exist elsewhere. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: That capacity does exist. At least not that we are aware of. Out there, who knows. Edited May 27, 2021 by Rowan Amore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Consider that even from a biological perspective that life as we know and mostly understand it, has some "unnatural" aspects to it, starting with this thing called death. Why did life evolve in a way wherein we get old and eventually die? Wouldn't or shouldn't evolution have selected those whose cells continually regenerate to live forever? That capacity does exist. A life form such as that between being immortal and a capacity for epigenetics could theoretically evolve to where we are now physically and intellectually in a lot shorter time than what it has taken us. What's the energy source for your imagined immortals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: What's the energy source for your imagined immortals? Food, water and air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 37 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: We should have all been born water bears. They do look like good huggers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: What's the energy source for your imagined immortals? Ivermectin (I'm sorry, but I just could not resist) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Food, water and air. And the food is immortal? ETA: I forgot to ask: Why do you imagine your immortals have genes? Where do they come from? Edited May 27, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: And the food is immortal? ETA: I forgot to ask: Why do you imagine your immortals have genes? Where do they come from? Angel food cake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: And the food is immortal? ETA: I forgot to ask: Why do you imagine your immortals have genes? Where do they come from? Why don't you point out why we start dying since from the time we are born, the body and mind age and mature until we reach our prime. What breaks down after that point that cells are no longer regenerated properly? Why after billions of years of evolution, does that continue for all life forms when it is the number one aspect that would determine the fittest. The more years we live, the more descendants one could produce. ps. Didn't you say in another thread that cells in a culture were potentially immortal? Edited May 27, 2021 by Arielle Popstar Blame the aging keyboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 50 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Not me! I'll be raining down on all of humanity, just like Mom and Dad, who's ashes set sail in a weather balloon last Halloween. Ashes = Daisy food! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Why don't you point out why we start dying since from the time we are born, the body and mind age and mature until we reach our prime. What breaks down after that point that cells are no longer regenerated properly? Why after billions of years of evolution, does that continue for all life forms when it is the number one aspect that would determine the fittest. The more years we live, the more descendants one could produce. ps. Didn't you say in another thread that cells in a culture were potentially immortal? So are you thinking it is 'the Fall' that caused death, and that before that humans were in a paradise without death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: ps. Didn't you say in another thread that cells in a culture were potentially immortal? Especially cancer cells. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Immortal_Life_of_Henrietta_Lacks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 Just now, Luna Bliss said: So are you thinking it is 'the Fall' that caused death, and that before that humans were in a paradise without death? No, there was the Tree of Life one needed to eat from too. But we aren't discussing it from a biblical perspective but a natural one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Why don't you point out why we start dying since from the time we are born Maybe we'll never know why there is death, if there is a reason. Death just seems to be a part of life and so I trust it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krystina Ferraris Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 I need infinite length telomeres or at least telomeres that don’t wear down 👌 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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