Gesture spam and why is it a thing

[Sassy Kenin]

1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

Nor do I live in the Matrix. 😆

 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Just now, RowanMinx said:

Nor do I live in the Matrix. 😆

Are you completely and totally 100% perfectly without any doubt assured of that? You could be and just not know it. For there are lots of things humans think they know but don't really.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Even so called friends can be jerks at time and you shouldn't trust them so much that they wont be when the time is right for them to do so.

Even your best friends can and will betray you at some point when you least expect it and it suits them. But of course you will probably be one that just takes it on the chin and forgives them for it and makes nothing about it. Or you will oblivious too it until someone ever points it out and even then you still probably will discount what ever is said.

I don't choose to be around jerks, it just happens. When I can I keep away from them, but it doesn't stop me from realizing they are there and how they will act when they want.

My views may be alien to you, but they are none the less real and do happen more often then you realize or wish to think or believe. Most people are not nearly as considerate as you wish to think all the time. Just because you have a few around you that currently act or play as if they are, doesn't mean they are all the time.

people wear masks even friends, they will act one way around you and another to strangers. so even the most well behaved friend may be a total jerk to other people.

 

This strikes me as inutterably sad, Drakona. I'm sorry.

There's a section of Milton's Paradise Lost that is often quoted (and frequently misunderstood, because people forget that it is Satan, and not Milton himself, who speaks it):

                                                    Farewel happy Fields
          Where Joy for ever dwells: Hail horrours, hail
          Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
          Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
          A mind not to be chang'd by Place or Time.
          The mind is its own place, and in it self
          Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.

Satan believes he can make a "heaven" from hell -- the poem proves him wrong on that score. But he has certainly made a hell out of heaven, trapped as he is within the dark and despairing prison of his own mind and beset by fear, hatred, and jealousy.

I don't live in "heaven" by any means. But at least I'm wise enough not to construct a hell for myself by allowing my own fears to so utterly distort my understanding of others. Have I been hurt? Of course. But it's been my experience that most people are fundamentally good, and yearn for connection. And that is my strength.

I very much hope that you can find a way to escape this rather awful sounding world that you seem to have constructed for yourself.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Are you completely and totally 100% perfectly without any doubt assured of that? You could be and just not know it. For there are lots of things humans think they know but don't really.

Yes.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This strikes me as inutterably sad, Drakona. I'm sorry.

I very much hope that you can find a way to escape this rather awful sounding world that you seem to have constructed for yourself.

Maybe one day.. anything is possible.. i see a therapist for a lot of problems now.. sometimes it helps.. sometimes it doesn't.

[Sassy Kenin]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This strikes me as inutterably sad, Drakona. I'm sorry.

There's a section of Milton's Paradise Lost that is often quoted (and frequently misunderstood, because people forget that it is Satan, and not Milton himself, who speaks it):

                                                    Farewel happy Fields
          Where Joy for ever dwells: Hail horrours, hail
          Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
          Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
          A mind not to be chang'd by Place or Time.
          The mind is its own place, and in it self
          Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.

Satan believes he can make a "heaven" from hell -- the poem proves him wrong on that score. But he has certainly made a hell out of heaven, trapped as he is within the dark and despairing prison of his own mind and beset by fear, hatred, and jealousy.

I don't live in "heaven" by any means. But at least I'm wise enough not to construct a hell for myself by allowing my own fears to so utterly distort my understanding of others. Have I been hurt? Of course. But it's been my experience that most people are fundamentally good, and yearn for connection. And that is my strength.

I very much hope that you can find a way to escape this rather awful sounding world that you seem to have constructed for yourself.

Eckhart saw Hell too. He said: The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won’t let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they’re not punishing you, he said. They’re freeing your soul. So the way he sees it, if you’re frightened of dying and… and you’re holding on, you’ll see devils tearing your life away. But if you’ve made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

Meister Eckhart would not even admit that God was good. ...Eckhart's position was that anything that was good can become better, and whatever may become better may become best. God cannot be referred to as "good", "better", or best because He is above all things. If a man says that God is wise, the man is lying because anything that is wise can become wiser. Anything that a man might say about God is incorrect, even calling Him by the name of God. God is "superessential nothingness" and "transcendent Being" ... beyond all words and beyond all understanding. The best a man can do is remain silent, because anytime he prates on about God, he is committing the sin of lying. The true master knows that if he had a God he could understand, he would never hold Him to be God.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Sassy Kenin

[Luna Bliss]

22 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

I dont expect anything from anyone not even best friends I have learned not too. For yes I have had a few so called best friends in my past betray and hurt me because it suited them to do so. Be glad you dont live in my world...

Do you mean their own needs conflicted with yours and so you could not get what you needed from them, and so you felt hurt and betrayed? Or were they sadistic and actually wanted to hurt you?

It's the latter, the sadistic ones, who are emotionally immature and don't handle their pain well, that I personally avoid. You will invariably be harmed by them eventually, as when they are hurt by another (and hurt is usually a part of all relationships as nobody can meet our needs perfectly) it is perceived as 'against them' and they feel compelled to strike back, to exact revenge.

I imagine that people such as Scylla have a good sense of when someone is emotionally immature and would likely strike back when needs conflict in a friendship, and so creates for herself in her personal life a world where there is greater trust and more fulfilling relationships.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Do you mean their own needs conflicted with yours and so you could not get what you needed from them, and so you felt hurt and betrayed? Or were they sadistic and actually wanted to hurt you?

It's the latter, the sadistic ones, who are emotionally immature and don't handle their pain well, that I personally avoid. You will invariably be harmed by them eventually, as when they are hurt by another (and hurt is usually a part of all relationships as nobody can meet our needs perfectly) it is perceived as 'against them' and they feel compelled to strike back, to exact revenge.

I imagine that people such as Scylla have a good sense of when someone is emotionally immature and would likely strike back when needs conflict in a friendship, and so creates for herself a world where there is greater trust and more fulfilling relationships.

its not as easy as you think to tell when some people are going to hurt you or not. Some people are very good at hiding their motives and reasons for doing things until they actually do them. and they dont always have to be a sadist either. for not all sadists are evil and only seek to hurt anyone they come across. a true sadist only hurts those who want to be hurt in a consensual manner.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

11 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won’t let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they’re not punishing you, he said. They’re freeing your soul.

I kinda like those bits of me though. And without them, am I still "me"?

Eckhart's ideas generally echo those of the ancient Epicureans though: understand and accept that we live in a godless universe in which the greatest threat to happiness derives from our own fears and ignorance, and the way becomes clear to living a peaceful and happy life, without the threat of damnation hanging over our heads.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I imagine that people such as Scylla have a good sense of when someone is emotionally immature and would likely strike back when needs conflict in a friendship, and so creates for herself a world where there is greater trust and more fulfilling relationships.

You are probably giving me too much credit. I just recognize people who are acting like jerks, and avoid them. Sometimes it takes a while to see that in someone, but the jerk in someone will usually out itself, mostly before it's cause too much damage.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Do you mean their own needs conflicted with yours and so you could not get what you needed from them, and so you felt hurt and betrayed? Or were they sadistic and actually wanted to hurt you?

It's the latter, the sadistic ones, who are emotionally immature and don't handle their pain well, that I personally avoid. You will invariably be harmed by them eventually, as when they are hurt by another (and hurt is usually a part of all relationships as nobody can meet our needs perfectly) it is perceived as 'against them' and they feel compelled to strike back, to exact revenge.

I imagine that people such as Scylla have a good sense of when someone is emotionally immature and would likely strike back when needs conflict in a friendship, and so creates for herself a world where there is greater trust and more fulfilling relationships.

Expand  

its not as easy as you think to tell when some people are going to hurt you or not. Some people are very good at hiding their motives and reasons for doing things until they actually do them. and they dont always have to be a sadist either. for not all sadists are evil and only seek to hurt anyone they come across. a true sadist only hurts those who want to be hurt in a consensual manner.

I agree it's not always easy to tell, but there are clues. I think as time goes by our 'detector' becomes stronger, especially as we mature.

Those who hurt us might not actually be sadistic, but I find it easier to forgive when they really don't mean to hurt me.

I don't understand the BDSM reference you're making related to sadism.

One thing I can say for you, Drakon, is that although I've been upset because you've attempted to force your beliefs on others, I've never seen you be sadistic. So Kudos to you!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I find it easier to forgive when they really don't mean to hurt me

This. Most often, this is the case. There are sadists, of course -- but they are a pretty clear minority.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I imagine that people such as Scylla have a good sense of when someone is emotionally immature and would likely strike back when needs conflict in a friendship, and so creates for herself a world where there is greater trust and more fulfilling relationships.

You are probably giving me too much credit. I just recognize people who are acting like jerks, and avoid them. Sometimes it takes a while to see that in someone, but the jerk in someone will usually out itself, mostly before it's cause too much damage.

I understand. And I think those who have such a lack of trust in people most likely were young and could not get away and avoid the impacts, and issues remain at a more unconscious level.  Unfortunately, they are actually drawn to the jerks, often as a way to resolve the issue, yet all too often the result is feeling abused yet again.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unfortunately, they are actually drawn to the jerks, often as a way to resolve the issue, yet all too often the result is feeling abused yet again.

Well, this is a recognized pathology, isn't it? We certainly see it in operation in women who've been abused. The other side of it is that eroding someone's sense of self-worth can lead them to believe that they deserve the abuse they receive, and even seek it out.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I find it easier to forgive when they really don't mean to hurt me

This. Most often, this is the case. There are sadists, of course -- but they are a pretty clear minority.

Yes I think they are in the minority. The problem is that people who have been hurt deeply frequently believe others are hurting them intentionally and want to hurt them (are sadists) when so often that isn't the case.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unfortunately, they are actually drawn to the jerks, often as a way to resolve the issue, yet all too often the result is feeling abused yet again.

Well, this is a recognized pathology, isn't it? We certainly see it in operation in women who've been abused. The other side of it is that eroding someone's sense of self-worth can lead them to believe that they deserve the abuse they receive, and even seek it out.

Yes, it's sad, and I've seen it in SL a lot.

[Horus Salubrius]

So now I am wondering what Milton & Eckhart would think about gesture spamming ....?

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Horus Salubrius said:

So now I am wondering what Milton & Eckhart would think about gesture spamming ....?

Well...are the parties involved simply the good or evil people some try to paint humanity as.....or are we talking about immature vs mature people?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Horus Salubrius said:

So now I am wondering what Milton & Eckhart would think about gesture spamming ....?

Well, Paradise Lost in its final version has, I think, over 11,000 lines of blank verse. Samuel Johnson said of it that "no one ever wished it longer." I kinda agree.

So, would Milton be into spamming? Duh.

[Ajay McDowwll]

Oh wow.  This took a turn

Back to the topic of gestures, I'm entertained by them... within reason.  There are some songs where a certain gesture just fits, there are occasions where they work.  I am not a fan of ginormous ASCII art that shoves all local chat off into oblivion.  Those are the gestures I truly consider to be spammy.

There are also times and venues where gestures of just about any sort (or all) are utterly inappropriate.

I try to confine my gesturbating (such a word lol) to venues and occasions where it's welcome and considered entertaining, and confine myself to a polite "applause" gesture (if that) and otherwise type out my thoughts where gestures would not work.  Overall I prefer actual local chat rather than endless gestures, but for some of us, the judicious use of some gestures enhances rather than detracts from our venue experience.

Some clubs are cool with moderate gesture usage, either with sounds turned off or left on.  Others are pretty strict that the only gestures will be those used to promote the club and its surrounds.  It's a matter of knowing your audience, reading the room, and understanding the particular venue's feelings regarding the matter.  I think SL is vast enough that everyone's particular tastes in this regard can be met.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 10/13/2020 at 1:08 PM, Sorciaa said:

Not sure if this is the proper area for this but..why do clubs, with a DJ playing.. always seem to spam gestures non stop? The seems to happen far more often then not, atleast to the few clubs I tend to go to.  So..

 

Why is this a thing ?🤔

I'm glad you singled this out as an issue because it explains a big reason why I don't go to live music any more but I wasn't putting my finger on it.

I think the reason is this:

When you come to SL, you are told that it's a vast, wonderful world which you, the user, can create. That you can be and do anything. That you can make wonderful things and design your own environment. That it's a place where not only RL graphics artists can thrive but that anybody can be an artist.

Then the reality hits. Just trying to change your outfit and shape can be confusing and have unexpected results. You get an outfit and it never fits even with the alphas. You get a house and it proves impossible to put on the ground right, it bounces, or the earth pokes up through it. You try to decorate it and things return to inventory, telling you the owner doesn't like it. You struggle to put two prims together. When you try to recolour something, the entire thing turns red; when someone explains about faces, you find it doesn't have faces. When you want to just make a flower pot smaller, it doesn't look right; make a chair bigger, now it's double in prims. Everything bites back. Everything is hard. Everything turns out wrong, yet some very lucky and talented people do get to make very nice things -- but they cost a fortune.

But there's one thing you can do that is effortless, easy, and instantly gets attention: gesture spam.

You can just take the store-bought ones and instantly get them to work and get APPLAUSE. Or you can make one yourself with all kinds of hearts and curlicues. You instantly get attention. Everyone else is doing it, too. You belong!

I once went to an event at the end of Fantasy Faire which is a gorgeous, breathtakingly beautiful realm of sims built by SL's top fantasy artists. Everything for sale seems a wonder. There are light shows and RP and amazing sites and hunts. Then all of a sudden, everybody on the sim was buying from a gatcha with all gesture spam items and spamming the room chat all to hell. Worse, it was all in-jokes that made no sense unless you had been an elf since the year One. I didn't realize there could be such intricate gesture spam, since before that, most of what I saw at concerts was people saying "clap" or "woot" or about 3 other things all the same with the same memes and voices.

I don't have an AO; I almost never use gestures or animations except for perhaps "bow" and "clap" at a shinto shrine or when testing something I'm making that has "stir bowl". Some people have AOs that are so elaborate that they seem to enact a one-person Shakespeare drama while AFK. Others are strange -- you see these women vamping around and then bending and crouching slightly as if they really have to go to the bathroom. Why would they choose this as a thing to wear/do?

And I think it's because it's the one area where they feel they can be expressive, where they can be different, and where they don't seem to realize a lot of other people are doing the same thing -- or conversely, they do, and don't care, because it builds a sense of togetherness.

No club owner ever seems to stop it, I guess because they fear they will drive away tips. I would love to hear of a venue that featured no gesture spam as a requirement.

[Mollymews]

14 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But there's one thing you can do that is effortless, easy, and instantly gets attention: gesture spam.

...

And I think it's because it's the one area where they feel they can be expressive, where they can be different, and where they don't seem to realize a lot of other people are doing the same thing -- or conversely, they do, and don't care, because it builds a sense of togetherness.

yes is this

and as you mention also, of all the things a text gesture is the simplest thing to make from which a person can derive a satisfaction from being able to make something

[MLALRS7044]

19 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

yes is this

and as you mention also, of all the things a text gesture is the simplest thing to make from which a person can derive a satisfaction from being able to make something

Exactly. Plus if i were the boss in a club and i saw alot of people spamming those annoying as heck gestures all the time, non-stop plus doing ALOT OF GRIEFING by rezzing a megaprim (whose both at the same time is rare to happen), i would ask @Patch Linden or @Strawberry Linden or even @Ebbe Linden to permaban some those folks from the entire grid. 

Just imagine if you see a random person spamming alot of gestures and rezzing a megaprim in the club. This is very rare to happen.

Edited October 17, 2020 by MLALRS7044

[Mollymews]

21 minutes ago, MLALRS7044 said:

Exactly. Plus if i were the boss in a club and i saw alot of people spamming those annoying as heck gestures all the time, non-stop plus doing ALOT OF GRIEFING by rezzing a megaprim (whose both at the same time is rare to happen), i would ask @Patch Linden or @Strawberry Linden or even @Ebbe Linden to permaban some those folks from the entire grid. 

Just imagine if you see a random person spamming alot of gestures and rezzing a megaprim in the club. This is very rare to happen.

griefing is a completely different matter from being able to make things

the solution for the parcel owner is to ban griefers from their lands/venues/clubs and/or abuse report griefers

[Rowan Amore]

26 minutes ago, MLALRS7044 said:

Exactly. Plus if i were the boss in a club and i saw alot of people spamming those annoying as heck gestures all the time, non-stop plus doing ALOT OF GRIEFING by rezzing a megaprim (whose both at the same time is rare to happen), i would ask @Patch Linden or @Strawberry Linden or even @Ebbe Linden to permaban some those folks from the entire grid. 

Just imagine if you see a random person spamming alot of gestures and rezzing a megaprim in the club. This is very rare to happen.

Mostly, you can't rez anything in clubs.