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34 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Robin started it.….      :)     But I have to state my truth as I see it even if some disagree with my interpretation --  I feel Pearl did nothing wrong and that she shouldn't have apologized except to say she's sorry for any hurt disabled people felt  (I believe they misinterpreted things and were looking for a scapegoat to blame).

For myself, I feel sad that disabled people were reminded of this crappy society that devalues those who are not as society says they should be. They should never have to feel bad about themselves or limit their potential, if indeed they do.

I appreciate that and I respect your views. You're obviously allowed to have them. But whether or not you think she should have apologized, she did. Unless you're trying to convince her to unapologize. If you're truly passionate about this view, why not make it your own rather than drag Pearl back into it. Make that statement yourself so you can start defending it as your's, not her's.

I personally would like to see her be given the chance to move on from that; it's in the past. To keep bringing up that she was ganged up on, which is really what started all this, is only going to bring up old dirt.

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LittleMe thinks that someone just can't stand it if she isn't constantly the center of attention - hence some of these totally odd and unneeded threads.  

How about stop promoting yourself as "porn" and starting threads that are just extensions from other threads (ie this topic was touched upon in the naughty pics on Flickr thread).   I haven't see

This is an even weaker excuse for starting yet another thread all about you than the "hey guys, is it all right to take intimate photos of people who don't know I'm doing it?" one. I do get it. Y

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5 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

I appreciate that and I respect your views. You're obviously allowed to have them. But whether or not you think she should have apologized, she did. Unless you're trying to convince her to unapologize. If you're truly passionate about this view, why not make it your own rather than drag Pearl back into it. Make that statement yourself so you can start defending it as your's, not her's.

I personally would like to see her be given the chance to move on from that; it's in the past. To keep bringing up that she was ganged up on, which is really what started all this, is only going to bring up all dirt.

And really now it's simply dirt from the past. We ALL need to move on. Carpe diem...in a postive way!!!

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2 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

I appreciate that and I respect your views. You're obviously allowed to have them. But whether or not you think she should have apologized, she did. Unless you're trying to convince her to unapologize. If you're truly passionate about this view, why not make it your own rather than drag Pearl back into it. Make that statement yourself so you can start defending it as your's, not her's.

I personally would like to see her be given the chance to move on from that; it's in the past. To keep bringing up that she was ganged up on, which is really what started all this, is only going to bring up all dirt.

Absolutely not -- not attempting to convince her to unapologize.

Never said my opinion was nothing but my own...never attempted to drag Pearl back into anything. I was simply providing my viewpoint on the matter in response to Robin's.

I'd like to see her be given the chance to move on too. But related to 'bringing up dirt', I don't think you noticed there were all kinds of people with shovels in use before Robin's post.  I'm not convinced you have a clue how scapegoating works.

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I've mentioned before practicing Reiki in SL (a healing technique where discussion of problems often occurs). It's not uncommon for people to make fun of Reiki. If I was encountering people on the forum making fun of my Reiki practice I can easily imagine defending it by saying something like "people coming to me for help feel human again after our sessions" as a way to try and prove that what I'm doing is actually a good thing, even if my client never said those actual words to me. Using that expression would not mean I thought they were subhuman -- instead I would mean that I believed they felt whole again after recovering something that had been missing in their lives (a sense of well-being...the peace that comes from expressing repressed pain or resolving a problem). The expression 'feeling human again' is the recovery of an experience that was missing in one's life--for example, people use the expression after finally taking a long-awaited shower -- "phew, I feel human again".

The media really does a number on people's perception of themselves via the way in which they portray sexuality -- according to them it appears sexuality is only for "the perfect people". Disabled people are rarely portrayed as sexual. It's not easy to overcome the internalization of strong beliefs in society, not for the disabled person themselves or those viewing the disabled person. It is simply a fact that many disabled people have a very difficult time overcoming this socialization so that they feel as whole as any other sexual person who is not disabled, so why would Pearl be to blame for assuming one of her clients does indeed hold these feelings about their perceived inadequacy?

If I thought Pearl was trashing disabled people or considering them to actually be less than human I'd be all over her believe me!

See, this is exactly my point. As well as a common thread with you Luna. I get you too are disabled. But just as I don't speak for all of us in the disabilty community. Neithet do you. Pearl eventually got the message and stopped.

But you kept going even when she confessed. Still going even now.
Please realise that you need to listen and empathise with those who are hurt by that language.  I know you're capable of it.

People have explained why "I make [marginalised group] feel human again" is hurtful even if it isn't intended that way, multpile times.

Accept that as Pearl has.

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I think that when a purely academic argument keeps re-opening sores and actually perpetuating the original pain that the initial point of contention has caused, it's probably time to end it.

The very real hurt this has caused is vastly more important than the points of principle or intellectual differences that are being debated here.

Let's just end this, maybe? It's become purely destructive.

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1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think that when a purely academic argument keeps re-opening sores and actually perpetuating the original pain that the initial point of contention has caused, it's probably time to end it.

The very real hurt this has caused is vastly more important than the points of principle or intellectual differences that are being debated here.

Let's just end this, maybe? It's become purely destructive.

Yes please. Let's all end this. We need to focus more on being positive.

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1 minute ago, Robin Kiyori said:
2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I've mentioned before practicing Reiki in SL (a healing technique where discussion of problems often occurs). It's not uncommon for people to make fun of Reiki. If I was encountering people on the forum making fun of my Reiki practice I can easily imagine defending it by saying something like "people coming to me for help feel human again after our sessions" as a way to try and prove that what I'm doing is actually a good thing, even if my client never said those actual words to me. Using that expression would not mean I thought they were subhuman -- instead I would mean that I believed they felt whole again after recovering something that had been missing in their lives (a sense of well-being...the peace that comes from expressing repressed pain or resolving a problem). The expression 'feeling human again' is the recovery of an experience that was missing in one's life--for example, people use the expression after finally taking a long-awaited shower -- "phew, I feel human again".

The media really does a number on people's perception of themselves via the way in which they portray sexuality -- according to them it appears sexuality is only for "the perfect people". Disabled people are rarely portrayed as sexual. It's not easy to overcome the internalization of strong beliefs in society, not for the disabled person themselves or those viewing the disabled person. It is simply a fact that many disabled people have a very difficult time overcoming this socialization so that they feel as whole as any other sexual person who is not disabled, so why would Pearl be to blame for assuming one of her clients does indeed hold these feelings about their perceived inadequacy?

If I thought Pearl was trashing disabled people or considering them to actually be less than human I'd be all over her believe me!

See, this is exactly my point. As well as a common thread with you Luna. I get you too are disabled. But just as I don't speak for all of us in the disabilty community. Neithet do you. Pearl eventually got the message and stopped.

But you kept going even when she confessed. Still going even now.
Please realise that you need to listen and empathise with those who are hurt by that language.  I know you're capable of it.

People have explained why "I make [marginalised group] feel human again" is hurtful even if it isn't intended that way, multpile times.

Accept that as Pearl has.

I don't assume I speak for all of you.  And as I've expressed, I don't like the fact that this fiasco brought up any pain for you or other disabled people. And while I empathize with your pain, I can't empathize with what I see as a misinterpretation and blaming one person for what is really the fault of our entire society.

I feel that if Pearl had not already been demonized then some might have given her more the benefit of the doubt and interpreted her language in a more positive or neutral light.

I value whatever Pearl wants to do or how she interprets the mess.  I never will see it that way though, so please stop trying to make me see it as you do.  And let's just drop it!

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This thread has become something it was never meant to be. i was simply concerned about my friends. I should have just PM'd them and asked for their opinion. Or asked them inworld.

Edited by Bagnu
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And I'm still  laughing about Scylla's comment about calling her Madame Bedwell, and to tip the venue and treat the girls well. I know she would never be involved in that, but if she ever did, I would be the first one asking for work!!! And I'm pretty sure I could get a lot of other girls to work for her too!!!

Let's all of lighten up and have a laugh about something!!! 

Edited by Bagnu
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11 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

And I'm still  laughing about Scylla's comment about calling her Madame Bedwell, and to tip the venue and treat the girls well. I know she would never be involved in that, but if she ever did, I would be the first one asking for work!!!

Let's all of lighten up and have a laugh about something!!!

 

3 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

"Friends". 

Pearl, I like really like your propensity not to take offense.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get out of this mess without telling some people to F Off......it's the only language bullies understand.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

Pearl, I like really like your propensity not to take offense.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get out of this mess without telling some people to F Off......it's the only language bullies understand.

I won't go there. Inworld...I can have very sharp claws!!!

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4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

Pearl, I like really like your propensity not to take offense.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get out of this mess without telling some people to F Off......it's the only language bullies understand.

She has shown grace under pressure and I do admire that.  

I'm sure quite a few of us would like to tell you the same, Luna.  Pot/kettle...you get the point.  You just do it under another guise.

Edited by RowanMinx
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2 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:
6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Pearl, I like really like your propensity not to take offense.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get out of this mess without telling some people to F Off......it's the only language bullies understand.

She has shown grace under pressure and I do admire that.  

I'm sure quite a few of us would like to tell you the same, Luna.  Pot/kettle...you get the point.  You just do it under another guise.

Oh I have no doubt there are others who would like to tell me that    :)   I'd be worried if they liked me, if you catch my drift...

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5 minutes ago, Bagnu said:
8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

Pearl, I like really like your propensity not to take offense.

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get out of this mess without telling some people to F Off......it's the only language bullies understand.

I won't go there. Inworld...I can have very sharp claws!!!

Well I am going to have to meet you inworld to see these claws.  Please forgive me, but I'm having a hard time imagining them on you...   :)

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well I am going to have to meet you inworld to see these claws.  Please forgive me, but I'm having a hard time imagining them on you...   :)

I got fired from a club for giving a patron shiit about something I felt he did wrong. I turned a game of jealousy around in my former relationship. I chased child AV's out of a Satanic church, and ripped right into the devil!!! The list goes on. Sometimes my claws are subtle, and pierce an artery without them ever knowing. But only if I am attacked first.

Edited by Bagnu
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1 minute ago, Bagnu said:
5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well I am going to have to meet you inworld to see these claws.  Please forgive me, but I'm having a hard time imagining them on you...   :)

I got fired from a club for giving a patron shiit about something I felt he did wrong. I turned a game of jealousy around in my former relationship. I chased child AV's out of a Satanic church, and ripped right into the devil!!! The list goes on.

omg...I see you have a shadow self I'm only beginning to get a glimpse of....:o

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7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

omg...I see you have a shadow self I'm only beginning to get a glimpse of....:o

It's not a shadow self. It's me. I can be aggressive in situations which call for it. I haven't found the need here in the forums. Inworld I sometimes pierce an artery without them ever having noticed...if they have caused me pain for selfish reasons....

Edited by Bagnu
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2 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I don't think of people with disabilities as marginalized. 

I don't think this is your call to make.

ETA: On reflection, I guess you meant that you would not intentionally marginalise people with disabilities.

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