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I always loved this..

‘Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What’s Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

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LittleMe thinks that someone just can't stand it if she isn't constantly the center of attention - hence some of these totally odd and unneeded threads.  

How about stop promoting yourself as "porn" and starting threads that are just extensions from other threads (ie this topic was touched upon in the naughty pics on Flickr thread).   I haven't see

This is an even weaker excuse for starting yet another thread all about you than the "hey guys, is it all right to take intimate photos of people who don't know I'm doing it?" one. I do get it. Y

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19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh c'mon, Kitty. You know the difference between connotation and denotation, and you know what a difference context makes.

"Whore" is a derogatory term that applies far more broadly than sex workers, and implies social scorn, and moral and ethical judgments. When you have the option to refer to someone as a "sex worker" or "prostitute," which are, relatively speaking, judgement-neutral terms, but choose to use the word "whore" instead (or in addition), you are making a conscious choice that, to me, makes you sound like some bible-thumping misogynist from the deep south who divides the gender into virgins and *****s.

The term is also sexist AF. We don't really have a male equivalent for it -- except, significantly, "manwhore" -- because, well, being "whorish" is a kind of woman's thing, isn't it?

If someone is RPing a "whore," that's a different thing -- but that's RP, and not the context in which this was used.

I do know the difference between connotation and denotation, and how context matters, which is why I wrote my comment as I did... that I didn't see the original remark and if the remarks were made where whore = prostitute then the word is used correctly.

It can absolutely be used in a derogatory way against women in general. I didn't address that. 

Again, without seeing the original posts, I can't comment upon them specifically. However, the person in question is a paid sextoy. A paid escort. A prostitute. A whore. By their own admission. So calling a whore a whore, in that context, is... well... accurate.

If the word wasn't used to describe the professional aspect of this person, then... sure. Derogatory.

 

Edited by Gatogateau
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2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh c'mon, Kitty. You know the difference between connotation and denotation, and you know what a difference context makes.

"Whore" is a derogatory term that applies far more broadly than sex workers, and implies social scorn, and moral and ethical judgments. When you have the option to refer to someone as a "sex worker" or "prostitute," which are, relatively speaking, judgement-neutral terms, but choose to use the word "whore" instead (or in addition), you are making a conscious choice that, to me, makes you sound like some bible-thumping misogynist from the deep south who divides the gender into virgins and *****s.

The term is also sexist AF. We don't really have a male equivalent for it -- except, significantly, "manwhore" -- because, well, being "whorish" is a kind of woman's thing, isn't it?

If someone is RPing a "whore," that's a different thing -- but that's RP, and not the context in which this was used.

I certainly agree with the point of whore being the least appropriate word.  However, as far as the rest go, they're all basically the same although when people think of escort, they assume (rightly or not) a bit more class. That was the basis for suggesting losing the Sextoy name for something more neutral/classy.  As Pearl is somewhat of a classic name, A surname with as much class should go along.  Again, just my thoughts.

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58 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

"Whore" is a derogatory term that applies far more broadly than sex workers, and implies social scorn, and moral and ethical judgments. When you have the option to refer to someone as a "sex worker" or "prostitute," which are, relatively speaking, judgement-neutral terms, but choose to use the word "whore" instead (or in addition), you are making a conscious choice that, to me, makes you sound like some bible-thumping misogynist from the deep south who divides the gender into chaste Madonnas and wicked, corrupting whores.

Definitely in the US, but not necessarily in all other countries.  

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh c'mon, Kitty. You know the difference between connotation and denotation, and you know what a difference context makes.

"Whore" is a derogatory term that applies far more broadly than sex workers, and implies social scorn, and moral and ethical judgments. When you have the option to refer to someone as a "sex worker" or "prostitute," which are, relatively speaking, judgement-neutral terms, but choose to use the word "whore" instead (or in addition), you are making a conscious choice that, to me, makes you sound like some bible-thumping misogynist from the deep south who divides the gender into chaste Madonnas and wicked, corrupting whores.

The term is also sexist AF. We don't really have a male equivalent for it -- except, significantly, "manwhore" -- because, well, being "whorish" is a kind of woman's thing, isn't it?

If someone is RPing a "whore," that's a different thing -- but that's RP, and not the context in which this was used.

WOah woah woah woah woah.. I fully admit to being a whore. I am proud of it. Whore is a gender neutral word. Why do we have to add "man" in front of words when using them to describe men?  "He is such a whore." works just as well as "He is such a manwhore." 

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2 hours ago, Gatogateau said:

I do know the difference between connotation and denotation, and how context matters, which is why I wrote my comment as I did... that I didn't see the original remark and if the remarks were made where whore = prostitute then the word is used correctly

I wouldn't have acknowledged that you know the difference if I didn't believe you did. My point was that, despite knowing the difference, you were not applying that knowledge. And I think you continue to ignore it.

If you and I both refer to the same woman, whom we concur is someone who gets paid to have sex, and I refer to that person as a "prostitute," while you use the term "whore," then we are both "correct" in the sense that we both understand we are refering to the same profession. But there is a world of difference between the ethical freight loaded into those two words. My word is relatively ethically neutral, while yours employs scorn and disapproval.

Those additional connotations are the most important part of what makes those different words, despite both referring to the same thing, different. They are emphatically not interchangeable. And when you choose to use one rather than the other, intentionally or not, you are telling me volumes about your social and ethical attitude towards it.

Absolutely you can find the definition "prostitute" for "whore" in a dictionary. And I can pretty much guarantee that any reasonably reputable and comprehensive dictionary will also note that it is a derogatory term. You can't substitute one for another without adding and subtracting different shades of meaning.

And that is what I am suggesting Alwin has done. He may be "technically correct," but the attitude conveyed by his use of the word is scornful, dismissive, and frankly sexist.

 

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

WOah woah woah woah woah.. I fully admit to being a whore. I am proud of it. Whore is a gender neutral word. Why do we have to add "man" in front of words when using them to describe men?  "He is such a whore." works just as well as "He is such a manwhore." 

It's how I'll always think of you, Drake.

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31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I wouldn't have acknowledged that you know the difference if I didn't believe you did. My point was that, despite knowing the difference, you were not applying that knowledge. And I think you continue to ignore it.

stuff...

 

Nope, not ignoring it. I just don't agree with what you are saying that I'm saying.

If the word whore was used to describe a generic woman who has a healthy sex drive, or just as a slur, like some use the word for a female dog, then you and I have no daylight between our beliefs on the word.

Also, while you are correct that it is generally used as a slur against women, it is absolutely used to describe men, too. Just not as often.

Maybe north of the  border "prostitute" is ethically neutral and without scorn, but not where I come from. Whore might be a little more "harsh" than prostitute but it is really splitting hairs. If I say someone, could be a male btw, is whoring themselves out, it isn't all that different from saying that guy is prostituting himself.

I'm using the word IN CONTEXT. I don't think you are.

In a situation where one is talking specifically about a self-described prostitute as a whore, then, fine. Sorry, it is a legit word. If you want to pile on baggage to it used correctly and in context, so be it. I do not. If someone is screaming it at the top of their lungs at a group of women, then, as I said, I'm on the same side of the fence with you.

ETA: Again, you refer to Alwin's specific remarks. I have not seen them. I cannot comment upon their context or intent. I have continuously stated that.

 

Edited by Gatogateau
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35 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Those additional connotations are the most important part of what makes those different words, despite both referring to the same thing, different. They are emphatically not interchangeable. And when you choose to use one rather than the other, intentionally or not, you are telling me volumes about your social and ethical attitude towards it.

This I'm handling separately, because again, if you leave context out of it... which you are doing... this is one heck of an insult.

I'm really rather fine with my social and ethical attitudes, thank you. I'm pretty darn liberal and open-minded. I just don't follow lock-step in every stinking "oh we have to be even more PC" shtick that is thrown my way. I don't think you have the lock grip on the Only Truth, Scylla. 

I disagree with you that those two words are not interchangeable in the RIGHT CONTEXT. That doesn't make me some sort of unethical social deviant. (Other things do...)

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48 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

In a situation where one is talking specifically about a self-described prostitute as a whore, then, fine. Sorry, it is a legit word. If you want to pile on baggage to it used correctly and in context, so be it. I do not. If someone is screaming it at the top of their lungs at a group of women, then, as I said, I'm on the same side of the fence with you.

Well, this is probably one of those "agree to disagree" things. I find calling a prostitute a "whore" demeaning. (Btw, both OED and Merriam-Webster say this is an "obsolete" or "archaic" usage.) I find prostitute somewhat less so, but mostly I use "sex worker." There are centuries of moral judgments and stigma associated with the others that I'd like to see gone from attitudes towards the profession.

But YMMV

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1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, this is probably one of those "agree to disagree" things. I find calling a prostitute a "whore" demeaning. (Btw, both OED and Merriam-Webster say this is an "obsolete" or "archaic" usage.) I find prostitute somewhat less so, but mostly I use "sex worker." There are centuries of moral judgments and stigma associated with the others that I'd like to see gone from attitudes towards the profession.

But YMMV

Considering how this person, the OP, posts, and what she posts, I have no problem using the moral judgments against this person, but not because "she" is a sex worker. 

If someone called *me* a prostitute and someone else called *me* a whore? I wouldn't see the difference. I'm not sure you'd be thrilled being called a prostitute. I don't think you'd find it a neutral term. That's because as far as I know, neither of us charge for sex. If I did charge, I'd be fine with the word whore. I know a few people inworld who call themselves whores. /me shrugs

Good luck getting rid of judgments regarding selling sex. Pretty sure there is stigma on that regardless of how one self-identifies. 

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42 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

This I'm handling separately, because again, if you leave context out of it... which you are doing... this is one heck of an insult.

I'm really rather fine with my social and ethical attitudes, thank you. I'm pretty darn liberal and open-minded. I just don't follow lock-step in every stinking "oh we have to be even more PC" shtick that is thrown my way. I don't think you have the lock grip on the Only Truth, Scylla. 

I disagree with you that those two words are not interchangeable in the RIGHT CONTEXT. That doesn't make me some sort of unethical social deviant. (Other things do...)

Oh good grief, in the immortal words of Charlie Brown.

When did I suggest I had God whispering eternal verities in my ear?

I have opinions. That's what we all have here. Mostly we tend to think we're right about them - or they wouldn't be our opinions in the first place. We can, at least some of us, change our minds after discussion. I certainly have. But you can take as read that what I say here are things that I believe are true, pending someone convincing me otherwise. Which, to be honest, you have not.

I'm walking away from this one, Seicher. I'm a little taken aback by the vehemence of your response; surely a disagreement need not be taken as a mortal insult? None was intended I assure you. This is also a digression on a digression, and I really don't have the interest or energy to brawl with you about it.

 

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Those additional connotations are the most important part of what makes those different words, despite both referring to the same thing, different. They are emphatically not interchangeable. And when you choose to use one rather than the other, intentionally or not, you are telling me volumes about your social and ethical attitude towards it.

 

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm walking away from this one, Seicher. I'm a little taken aback by the vehemence of your response; surely a disagreement need not be taken as a mortal insult? None was intended I assure you. This is also a digression on a digression, and I really don't have the interest or energy to brawl with you about it.

 

I didn't say it was a mortal insult, I said it was a heck of an insult, and it is. In the first (quoted above) comment you were tsk-tsking and school marming my apparent indifference to the *correct* way of viewing the topic.

I'm sure that you meant "you are telling me volumes about your social and ethical attitude towards it" in the nicest way possible, and NOT casting aspersions on either my social attitudes or my ethics. If you don't want to brawl, perhaps you shouldn't throw out the first punch.

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4 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

 

I didn't say it was a mortal insult, I said it was a heck of an insult, and it is. In the first (quoted above) comment you were tsk-tsking and school marming my apparent indifference to the *correct* way of viewing the topic.

I'm sure that you meant "you are telling me volumes about your social and ethical attitude towards it" in the nicest way possible, and NOT casting aspersions on either my social attitudes or my ethics. If you don't want to brawl, perhaps you shouldn't throw out the first punch.

Seicher, "you" wasn't a reference to you, Seicher, the individual. It was a generic "you," as in "one." It wasn't you, Seicher, who used the word in the first place: it was Alwin.

I apologize if my lack of precision has caused confusion -- but the comments you quote were not intended to single you out.

In general, though, yes -- the language one chooses to use does convey information about one's attitudes. Isn't that fairly obvious?

And now, apology out of the way, I really am done.

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I wouldn't have acknowledged that you know the difference if I didn't believe you did. My point was that, despite knowing the difference, you were not applying that knowledge. And I think you continue to ignore it.

If you and I both refer to the same woman, whom we concur is someone who gets paid to have sex, and I refer to that person as a "prostitute," while you use the term "whore," then we are both "correct" in the sense that we both understand we are refering to the same profession. But there is a world of difference between the ethical freight loaded into those two words. My word is relatively ethically neutral, while yours employs scorn and disapproval.

Those additional connotations are the most important part of what makes those different words, despite both referring to the same thing, different. They are emphatically not interchangeable. And when you choose to use one rather than the other, intentionally or not, you are telling me volumes about your social and ethical attitude towards it.

Absolutely you can find the definition "prostitute" for "whore" in a dictionary. And I can pretty much guarantee that any reasonably reputable and comprehensive dictionary will also note that it is a derogatory term. You can't substitute one for another without adding and subtracting different shades of meaning.

And that is what I am suggesting Alwin has done. He may be "technically correct," but the attitude conveyed by his use of the word is scornful, dismissive, and frankly sexist.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Seicher, "you" wasn't a reference to you, Seicher, the individual. It was a generic "you," as in "one." It wasn't you, Seicher, who used the word in the first place: it was Alwin.

I apologize if my lack of precision has caused confusion -- but the comments you quote were not intended to single you out.

In general, though, yes -- the language one chooses to use does convey information about one's attitudes. Isn't that fairly obvious?

And now, apology out of the way, I really am done.

Well, as to your original post with the insult, I've highlighted all of the use of "you" in it. In paragraphs one and two you were using "you" in reference to me, specifically. I do not see the transition to the generic, "one" use of "you."  ... and yes, the language you use does convey information about your attitudes.

I also dislike when people say, "We'll just have to agree to disagree" because it is passive-aggressive and a way of saying, "Your opinion means jacks***."

I have written several times about how apologies shouldn't include the words "...if I [did xyz] " and certainly should never contain the word "but"... However, yes, I'm also dropping this.

Anything concerning Pearl the Prostitute isn't worth having a fight with a friend.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

I also dislike when people say, "We'll just have to agree to disagree" because it is passive-aggressive and a way of saying, "Your opinion means jacks***."

Nope. It almost literally, at least in this case means this:

3 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

isn't worth having a fight with a friend

 

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I've only glanced over the back and forths, but the meaning behind the word whore really depends on the context in which it's being used. It's not always derogatory. Even Pearl has used it in reference to herself before, and I'm sure she meant it in a good way.

Edited by AdminGirl
Grammar
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1 hour ago, AdminGirl said:

I've only glanced over the back and forths, but meaning behind the word whore really depends on the context in which it's being used. It's not always derogatory. Even Pearl has used it in reference to herself before, and I'm sure she meant it in a good way.

I'm thinking of Maya Angelou and Dave Chappelle right now, talking about black society's internal use of the n-word.

I had a discussion with Pearl about her calling herself a "whore". She means it in a good way. There are people in this thread who see it in a good way. I am not one of them. I see this as akin to bragging "I'm no good at math".

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7 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I see this as akin to bragging "I'm no good at math".

agree. My life experience of people is that when people self-demean and buy into others demeaning them, and accepting the demeaning as a form of endearment then when spend time with the person and get them to self-examine then underneath is a bubbling mass of an accumulated lifetime of rage and anger and despair

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People change many times over time.. I used to be proud of being a Beitch, then took the best parts of that and left all the anger out of it..

people can change I say, like this guy!! \o/

2b15b74017a1153f55807a4989f49284.jpg

hehehehe

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is that like a beotch?

Or bi@tch?

 

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'm thinking of Maya Angelou and Dave Chappelle right now, talking about black society's internal use of the n-word.

I had a discussion with Pearl about her calling herself a "whore". She means it in a good way. There are people in this thread who see it in a good way. I am not one of them. I see this as akin to bragging "I'm no good at math".

That's fair. I certainly wouldn't use a word in the company of someone I knew would take it offensively.

Edited by AdminGirl
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11 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I define class not as a manner of dress or elocution, or deportment. Someone who has "class" to me is one who treats others well, and with respect.

   Whilst that's nice and all, and you did point out that that's what it is to you, that's not the common interpretation of it. I mean, the word outright derives from 'social class', to 'be classy' is to act in a manner befit of a gentleman/gentlewoman, which is not necessarily with how kids today view 'kindness and respect' in some twisted 'peace, love and understanding' balderdash, but to be stylish and sophisticated (which, arguably, might require a touch of kindness and respectfulness). Eloquence, social aptitude and patience are far classier than 'I do disabled people a favour by sexing them for money'. 

   To say that a person who blatantly advertises that she prostitutes herself, starts controversial threads for attention, wields the name 'Sextoy', and ends every expression with three exclamation marks is 'classy' feels like a bit of a stretch. That's not a judgement of whether they're a 'good' or 'bad' person, but that trying to make a term more inclusive by watering out its meaning is harmful to our language and reeks of that positive-attitude idealism that has infected most discourse online today, where people can't fully express themselves in fear of 'offending' someone. 

   Speaking of - a true mark of being classy, is to never show that you are offended; humility, restraint, and self-distance are cornerstones of good etiquette.  

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