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37 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

There has been some progress Janet in multi-cultural, multi-ethnic communities.  Living in multi-cultural communities has been one of the best experiences of my life.  I feel a bit privileged for that even.

Yes.

I was headed into a very dark place, and a lot of anger towards the 'majority' until I moved to San Francisco and... Like Malcolm X going to Mecca; realized people could get along, and here they were getting along, and it was actually nicer when they got along...

If I had never moved to San Francisco... I'd probably be locked up right now after having done something extremely stupid in a misguided attempt to 'strike back', as that was the path that it seems I was headed towards back when I lived in LA... I didn't live in the nicer parts of LA after all...

Coming to San Francisco made me realize... life is better when you refuse to let someone become your enemy.

 

It didn't hurt that I fell in with a pack of 'weirdo white people that kept giving everyone group hugs'... 🙂 Freaking hippies... I couldn't relate no matter how much I wanted to, but I still think of them very fondly...

 

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This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

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8 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

All of you need to recognize the change which can be made in a peaceful and lawful manner. Go to the ballot box don’t riot in the streets.

I understand that.

Nobody wants to riot. Usually not even most of the people actually rioting...

It's more that they try and they try and they try to get heard any other way and get met with a constant wall of resistance...

The riot should be seen as a cry for help out of extreme frustration. Much as when someone gets so frustrated at the inability to get through that they erupt and start yelling...

It's not what they wanted to do... it's all they had left... they'd been pushed past their breaking point.

 

If a people are rioting... then good leader need to look very hard at what led them to that point, and address something 3 steps back before it, not respond to the riot itself with force... But such leaders are rare...

 

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14 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I didn't live in the nicer parts of LA after all...

Regarding what part is the 'not so nicer parts of L.A.'...I don't really know, but I was reading about Watts and the truce between the Bloods and the Crips and that truce fairly recently which was in the early 1970's.  So, a long time ago.  Though I am not up to date on how the Bloods and the Crips feels about one another 50 years later.

I have been to the Watts Tower.  It was a great day.  About eight of us went and we had food and heard music and spent the day at the Watts Towers.  Local people sold arts and crafts and clothing too.   The Watts Towers and the homes are fairly nice neighborhoods though.  So, I don't know exactly which ones you mean?  

But, that isn't my point for writing this, about the Watts Towers.  What I was wondering about, regarding what may be regarded as the 'not so nicer areas of L.A.', sometimes called "the inner city", is did those neighborhoods exist pre Civil Rights?  It's difficult to put into words what I want to say here.  So, what I'm trying to say is did those neighborhoods in the inner cities exist pre Civil Rights and exist during segreation?  If they existed during segregation then how could they move out of there since those are their homes and their property?   If this is housing from the times of segregation, not much as far as multi-cultural living has occurred there.  But I've lived in multi-cultural communities in the Valley of Los Angeles County all my life.  Geesh, my first boyfriend was Lebanese, my best friend today is Jewish, my sister's best friend is Japanese and we've known her for over 20 years, and on and on it goes.   But, parts of L.A. in the downtown inner cities are not multi-cultural although some are.  I lived in downtown L.A. for a bit (the part without the skyscrapers) and it was multi-cultural of every color and every nation.  

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4 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

I wonder if in the 48 pages anyone even mentioned, let alone discussed, the books mention in the OP.  I'm not about to wade through 48 pages to find out.

Me neither.  And to add to the book list I just finished Trevor Noah's Born a Crime, which I really loved.  It's all about him being born during apartheid in South Africa, to a black woman and a white Swiss man. His mother basically had to hide him until apartheid ended when he was 5 years old.

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10 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

We're still talking about riots and looting? When was the last time that happened?

Protesters are literally in the streets doing yoga now....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-black-lives-matter-plaza-transformed/2020/07/20/641a1f50-c52e-11ea-8ffe-372be8d82298_story.html

I dunno, Janet, I guess you haven't seen the scary wall of moms protesters in Portland:

 

wall of moms.jpg

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21 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Regarding what part is the 'not so nicer parts of L.A.'...I don't really know, but I was reading about Watts and the truce between the Bloods and the Crips and that truce fairly recently which was in the early 1970's. 

The truce was in the 90s. It was organized by Tookie Williams, founder of the Crips, and Nobel Peace prize winner for his anti-gang program that he started in prison to steer kids away from gangs. He was later executed by the state.

There's a second truce right now actually.

 

The areas that had projects and all of that didn't have them before the 50s and 60s. Just as in the Bay Area - project housing was a part of "Urban Renewal" which was about 'city cleanup' which was about moving people of color "out of the way" so that businesses could set up offices and freeways could be put down and so on.

 

JUST LIKE the Keystone XL-pipeline... all the development for some magical reason had to go through neighborhoods of color...

And this was seen as 'upliftment' because social scientists would go into communities of color and see 'people hanging out in front of houses talking, children running around outside, and old ladies just sitting there watching' and think this was blight... rather than realizes... the community is socializing, the kids are playing, and grandma's are taking shifts to watch those kids...

But I believe areas like Watts used to be Irish or Mexican before... well... ALL of California used to be Mexican... but before as in right before the Urban Renewal folks moved everyone around with eminent domain land seizures...

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

We're still talking about riots and looting? When was the last time that happened?

Protesters are literally in the streets doing yoga now....

Last I read, Portland had been taken over by a naked white lady doing yoga splits in front of the feds...

 

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A fascist leader will always paint themselves as the 'law and order' candidate.  I don't know if anybody has watched T-rump lately, labeling liberals as criminals and vowing to restore order.  He's starting a war really.  Now he's sending stormtroopers to cities (first Portland, with plans for Chicago).  This is all very frightening.

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1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

I don’t think you understand my viewpoint. I’m the peaceful protestor who tries to stop people in the crowd from throwing rocks and burning buildings. Not the maga hat wearing counter protestor. I agree with the need for change but not with the more radical elements. All of you need to recognize the change which can be made in a peaceful and lawful manner. Go to the ballot box don’t riot in the streets.

Same. It's kinda sad that calls for peace (even inner peace) are treated with such suspicion. 

ah well... good luck out there folks! 

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20 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Last I read, Portland had been taken over by a naked white lady doing yoga splits in front of the feds...

Athena identifies as "they", I'm told. 

It was a brave and uniquely Portland moment.  There is some resentment from activists, saying they is just a white person co-opting the movement with performance art, etc.  Seems unlikely, they have not given interviews or explanations.  I saw it as a dare to the feds, meant as a gesture of ally-ship.

Possible message:  You want to club someone, send them to the hospital, like you did that veteran?  Bring it.

Small, nonviolent social justice protests have been happening around the city for weeks now.  The feds have already injured two people quite badly, and are facing lawsuits.  If someone dies at the protests, it's possible the whole town will erupt.  Thousands again protested at Portland's justice center last night, including the mom's & dads groups.  Tensions are escalating. 

Now would be a good time to declare victory & leave, feds.  Let the town calm down on its own.

 

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1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

My point of view has always been to see solidarity where I can find it. I've lived through enough moments where the mainstream got people to turn against each other to have the desire to see that happen again...

I agree with that. I think we're all working towards the same goal, just from different approaches.  

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

And I was it Akane who is from Singapore and while not stated I suspect NOT an Anglo.

Om Shanti 🙏

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57 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Same. It's kinda sad that calls for peace (even inner peace) are treated with such suspicion. 

ah well... good luck out there folks! 

The problem is the people who need to act in peace are not here.

These guys aren't listening:

sub-buzz-11803-1595362146-12.jpg

Just the other day they tried to beat up a Navy Vet and broke his hand in two places when he asked to talk.

That picture is not a posing pic, that's an actual gun being aimed on a, of all things, a man who is a wedding photographer...

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/portland-photographer-takes-picture-officer-pointing-weapon?ref=bfnsplash&utm_term=4ldqpho

 

Some of their own people are questioning all of this:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/dhs-employee-anger-over-portland-protest-response

Quote

“Despite working at DHS, I watch and learn about every day’s new descent into lawlessness and authoritarianism just like the rest of the world,” one employee said. “Being a part of this corrupt regime, even as I play no role in the decision-making process, leaves me disgusted by my employer and saddened for my country.”

Many employees believe the deployment was directly connected to President Donald Trump’s reelection efforts and was politicizing the agency.

“This administration’s utterly transparent fearmongering of sending federal officers out against peaceful protesters in Portland and Chicago has no purpose other than to support Trump’s reelection bid. It is blatantly unconstitutional and an embarrassment to the agency and the career civil servants who work here,” said one employee.

Another DHS employee said they’d never seen anything like what's happening in Portland in their many years at the agency.

“We have a lot of work ahead in terms of repairing the public’s trust,” the employee said.

Another staffer called the deployment “disturbing and demoralizing.”

“Such actions appear to do less to restore law and order than they do to deepen the public’s distrust of DHS,” they said.

sub-buzz-12033-1595371140-19.jpg

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And this is what we have to deal with daily:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Death-threats-and-racist-comments-disrupt-Oakland-15424337.php

Quote

Male-sounding voices joined the public forum for Oakland school board candidates Cherisse Gash and Dia Penning via Zoom on Saturday about 25 minutes into the meeting. With music blaring, the meeting crashers made threatening comments after organizers tried to remove them from the meeting and mute them.

“We have your addresses,” a voice said. “If you try, if you move, we’re going to kill all your kids or your family if you even move in.”

 

The incident was frightening, said Melissa Korber, who helped moderate the meeting and co-founded its sponsor, Oakland Not For Sale. The group opposes the closure of local public schools.

“It was pretty shocking,” Korber said, adding she’s seen Zoom bombing before, but this was different. “They’re threatening children and families.”

During the encounter, one of the interlopers posted Korber’s home address 48 times in the meeting’s comment section.

“The attack was racist, sexist, and political,” Korber said. “At one point, an attacker wrote: ‘Kill Leftists’ twice during the meeting chat.”

It appeared there were multiple people logging on, but organizers weren’t sure if it was one person or several.

Gash and Penning have announced their candidacy for the school board, and the forum was an opportunity to introduce themselves to the public, organizers said. There were about 17 people logged onto the event when the attack occurred.

 

Korber said participants filed reports with the FBI and Oakland police, who interviewed her about the incident. Police officials confirmed the department’s Hate Crime Task Force is investigating the incident.

The meeting and encounter, preserved in a recording, show Penning speaking about her candidacy when the infiltrators joined the meeting. She went silent as she realized what was happening.

“I have a bomb on me. I’m a bomb ISIS bomber coming in,” one of the voices said. “F—-ing n—-ga kill yourself.”

Over the years, even in SL, with only just a black avatar - I've gotten some IMs along those lines...

 

Calls for people to be peaceful, need to be pointed in the other direction... this side hasn't been violent. And while yes, right-wingers CAN and usually DO come back with articles about a person of color committing a crime that has a white victim - rarely can they tie it to a race-based attack. It's almost always just crime - which happens in all sorts of colors... When they can tie one to racism, they usually have to keep repeating the same one over and over because it's so unusual from our side for that to be the case.

But the above is something directly tied to politics and racism, and we've got and have supplied endless lists of them...

 

And yet still... our side is mostly acting in peace... and being met with guns; while we are the ones being told to be peaceful...

 

 

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https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Tucker-Carlson-claimed-the-New-York-Times-planned-15422359.php

So Tucker has come under fire recently for being a racist. Well, that's as new as "shocking headline: the sun rose today"... So out of nowhere to deflect last night he started claiming the NYT's reporter who wrote on his latest case of racism was going to publish his address...

So... despite there having been NO ATTEMPT by the NYT to publish any info on Tucker... he had his people Doxx the reporter during his broadcast:

Quote

On Monday night, Fox News host Tucker Carlson made a surprising accusation: the New York Times, he said, was trying to endanger him and his family by revealing where they live in an upcoming story. As he lambasted the newspaper on-air, Carlson suggested that his prime-time show could expose the home addresses of the reporter and Times editors.

Within hours, an army of conservative Twitter accounts started publicly posting the address and personal information of the reporter Carlson identified as the story's writer. Many encouraged people to harass the reporter.

In a statement to The Washington Post, a spokesperson for the Times denied Carlson's claims.

"While we do not confirm what may or may not publish in future editions, the Times has not and does not plan to expose any residence of Tucker Carlson's, which Carlson was aware of before tonight's broadcast," the spokesperson said. The spokesperson declined to comment further when asked about the reporter's doxing.

Carlson made the allegation against the Times as he found himself in the middle of a fresh controversy Monday - stemming from a lawsuit filed earlier in the day accusing him, Sean Hannity and other prominent Fox News personalities of sexual misconduct. (The network has denied the allegations.)

Instead of addressing the lawsuit or the recent resignation of his chief writer, who was linked to anonymous blog posts containing racist, homophobic and misogynistic language, Carlson used the final minutes of his first broadcast back from a "long-planned" vacation to take aim at the Times. The newspaper, Carlson alleged, has been "working on a story about where my family and I live" in an effort to intimidate him.

"They hate my politics. They want this show off the air," Carlson told his millions of viewers Monday. "If one of my children gets hurt because of a story they wrote, they won't consider it collateral damage. They know it's the whole point of the exercise: to inflict pain on our family, to terrorize us, to control what we say. That's the kind of people they are."

During Monday's show, Carlson claimed that he had called the Times and expressed concern that the planned story would put him and his family in danger.

The host noted that his home address in Washington was made public in 2018, prompting a group of activists to show up outside one night to protest. Referring to the group as "screaming Antifa lunatics," Carlson, a father of four, said the protesters vandalized his residence and threatened his wife, who had been home alone that night. Police, who responded to the scene after Carlson's wife called 911, said about 20 demonstrators participated and that an anarchy symbol had been spray-painted in his driveway.

Carlson said Monday that he and his family continued to be targeted after his address was released, receiving threatening letters that ultimately led to them selling their home and moving.

"But the New York Times followed us," he said. "Their story about where we live is slated to run in the paper this week. Editors there know exactly what will happen to my family when it does run."

He identified the reporter behind the story as Murray Carpenter, airing his photo and calling the freelance writer a "political activist." Carpenter's website states that he focuses on science and environmental stories, and has written for the Times, The Washington Post and National Geographic, among other outlets.

Carlson also mentioned photographer Tristan Spinski and the Times's media editor Jim Windolf by name.

"How would Murray Carpenter and his photographer, Tristan Spinski, feel if we told you where they live, if we put pictures of their homes on the air?" Carlson asked. "What if we published the home address of every one of the soulless, robot editors at the New York Times, who assigned and managed this incitement of violence against my family?"

He added: "We could do that. We know who they are."

Acting deputy secretary of homeland security Ken Cuccinelli retweeted criticism that the Times is promoting violence against Carlson, adding "That is clearly their intent," while Meghan McCain, co-host of ABC's "The View," condemned doxing as "the most violating thing in the entire world."

Meanwhile, Carlson's supporters quickly got to work. Several accounts shared addresses, phone numbers and other contact information for the reporter. One account tweeted, "Give him a taste of his own meds."

That's how they act...

Those who tell us to behave, might want to follow that advice themselves...

 

 

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4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Pain must be acknowledged by self and others before it can be transcended.  This is just Psychology 101 -- it's called "the stages of grief". Instead, here in America, we've either denied that POC have this pain because we don't want to face the fact that we've harmed them, or if we do manage to admit to our culpability we try to shut them down during the anger phase of dealing with grief because the anger frightens us.

How dare you come in here and suggest how Blacks should be managing their pain according to your timetable lest they have some sort of "doomsday" attitude, or imply that anger has "owned" them because you determine they are not making positive changes. 

Psychology 201 recognizes that some get stuck at one of the stages and may need a gentle nudge to the next level. Someone with some empathy who has traveled the same path is probably the best suited to do so. I felt Arkane being a POC was entirely appropriate in doing so.

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4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I dunno, Janet, I guess you haven't seen the scary wall of moms protesters in Portland:

 

wall of moms.jpg

Dear gods they are wearing riot gear!!! Look at those helmets and weapons..  They will bludgeon someone to uhh, submission?

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Was just thinking back to earlier posts about the criminal justice system and the 13th Amendment having the slavery exception...

While reading up on Songhai - the great West African kingdom that was conquered in a series of Arab invasions and had so many of it's people shipped away into slavery...

Songhai of course... did have it's own form of slavery - the same form that back then existed all over the world; war captives and indentured servitude...

So I'm not writing to justify Songhai...

 

But about something I noticed in it's criminal justice system.

People were, for many crimes, punished under Sharia law - which dictates loss of property as your punishment for most things, imprisonment for a few things.

 

Imagine that kind of punishment system. Who is at risk most when they commit crime? The wealthy... it is a system that sees the perpetrator of injustice is most likely those with wealth and power who have become corrupt.

Now look at imprisonment systems - they put the poor at great risk.

What does it means to a person who has nothing but a single pair of pants to their name, if for theft they lose those pants?

What does it mean to a person who owns a 100-acre estate with 200 cattle and a marketplace if for theft they lose all of that?

 

- Imprisonment is a criminal justice system designed to re-enforce classism / racism.

- What now still exists in our Civil law, injunctions banning conduct or fines for bad conduct - this is a criminal justice system designed to prevent corruption and abuse by the powerful...

 

We've got our whole system backwards here, and we have in history, and even in our Civil Law - a system that could replace mass incarceration. Saving prison only for the extremes.

But this won't happen, because modern societies are too often built upon a belief that it is the underclass that is a threat, not the overseer class. We spend all our effort punishing the fieldhand, and ignore the person holding the whip...

 

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8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There is so much wrong with this statement, that I had to quote it for posterity. (In case the poster edits / deletes it.)

I don't do things like that. I watched at least one person get shouted down and stop posting in this thread because of it.

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7 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:
12 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Pain must be acknowledged by self and others before it can be transcended.  This is just Psychology 101 -- it's called "the stages of grief". Instead, here in America, we've either denied that POC have this pain because we don't want to face the fact that we've harmed them, or if we do manage to admit to our culpability we try to shut them down during the anger phase of dealing with grief because the anger frightens us.

How dare you come in here and suggest how Blacks should be managing their pain according to your timetable lest they have some sort of "doomsday" attitude, or imply that anger has "owned" them because you determine they are not making positive changes. 

Psychology 201 recognizes that some get stuck at one of the stages and may need a gentle nudge to the next level. Someone with some empathy who has traveled the same path is probably the best suited to do so. I felt Arkane being a POC was entirely appropriate in doing so.

Almost everyone in Singapore has darker skin -- most are of Chinese, Malaysian, & Indian descent -- there's very little oppression there on account of skin color. So, no -- Arkane has no special empathy on account of having darker skin -- she has not been scapegoated and traumatized the way Blacks in the US have. Each country is unique in how oppression plays out among the population, and believe me the US is unique, and in a very bad way.

Regarding nudging another to move emotionally from one stage to another, the person doing the nudging needs to be able to see the other side clearly before any attempt should be made, and Arkane has seldom demonstrated she understands, or even wants to understand, the specifics of racial issues in America.

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Do you know what I liked about Portland? The used book stores. I loved getting used books because why pay full price for a book? Portland also has no sales tax. The city also has a height restriction on buildings so you can always see the sky. Too bad.

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14 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

If a people are rioting... then good leader need to look very hard at what led them to that point, and address something 3 steps back before it, not respond to the riot itself with force... But such leaders are rare...

You know how it goes though..

 

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Almost everyone in Singapore has darker skin -- most are of Chinese, Malaysian, & Indian descent -- there's very little oppression there on account of skin color. So, no -- Arkane has no special empathy on account of having darker skin -- she has not been scapegoated and traumatized the way Blacks in the US have. Each country is unique in how oppression plays out among the population, and believe me the US is unique, and in a very bad way.

Regarding nudging another to move emotionally from one stage to another, the person doing the nudging needs to be able to see the other side clearly before any attempt should be made, and Arkane has seldom demonstrated she understands, or even wants to understand, the specifics of racial issues in America.

The OP did not mention the discussion was only for American racism or wokeness. Though I had been pooh poohing the idea of white privilege up to now I have to admit that the the more of your postings I read on this topic, the more I am having to admit it is a thing for you, being that you as a white person, feel you have the privilege to dictate as to which minorities and from where are allowed to have an opinion or share their own thoughts on the topic.

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