Pussycat Catnap Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nick0678 said: Still tho we are 450 million people , you guys there are 330 and you have many more murders than us. Maybe it's time to reconsider your "right to have a gun". Compare crime rates excluding for murder, and then compare them with murder. What you will find is that the USA has for a few decades been lower on crime than many nations perceived as safe; like Japan... until you add in murder. Then's it's all beaches of Normandy up in this place... So yeah... guns... See we have a lot LESS violent assaults, muggings, etc than places like Japan or England - but our assaults tend to be more lethal. That said... I've been reading that criminals in England have come up with some new knives with blades designed to rip flesh up beyond the ability of surgery to repair or stop the bleeding on... if that's true and not a click-bait article, then their stats might catch up with us soon... - this might actually be linked... rational people in the USA seek to avoid a fight when it's starting to happen because the other party might have a gun... that might be why we have less assaults... but we also have a shortage of rational people... so when those fights do occur, they end a lot worse than elsewhere... Edited July 21, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said: The Lincoln Project leaders are not angels. But they are right about the ultimate aim of these deployments. https://lincolnproject.us/video/how-it-starts/ Even Stalin becomes an ally when the enemy is Hitler... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Pussycat Catnap said: Compare crime rates excluding for murde Already posted earlier when asked about the violent crime rates comparing to Spain, France and the U.S.. The U.S always had more on any type of violent crime then them. Not talking about the stock market thefts and stuff like that.. You do understand i can't compare every single country in the EU with the U.S.A. That's extremely time consuming and not gonna help actually. Now regarding guns and i need your honest reply on this, you 've been in the army , you have the experience, you have the logic of a weapon and know better than someone who likes to be just a tough guy with a gun, do you consider that "everyone" without being psychologically evaluated should carry a gun? Because we both know that the world is full of nutjobs.. Yes seen those knifes, those have been around since the days i was a kid. Criminals in England just like in any other place have guns and even mp5's, ak-47s etc .. "illegal" ones. They are criminals and frankly i don't shed a tear when the police shoots those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Nick0678 said: Now regarding guns and i need your honest reply on this, you 've been in the army , you have the experience, you have the logic of a weapon and know better than someone who likes to be just a tough guy with a gun, do you consider that "everyone" without being psychologically evaluated should carry a gun? Because we both know that the world is full of nutjobs.. Yes seen those knifes, those have been around since the days i was a kid. Criminals in England just like in any other place have guns and even mp5's, ak-47s etc .. "illegal" ones. They are criminals and frankly i don't shed a tear when the police shoots those guys. I really don't think ANYONE not a soldier in uniform deployed and in an active combat zone should have a gun. Our Second Amendment somewhat agrees. It provides for our states to have their own militaries so that... well... they can wage wars against each other, go after native americans, contain blacks, and stop pirates. I'm not kidding there either: those were the reasons outlined in the debates between, if I recall right, Madison and Jefferson - arguing over whether or not it was needed. They used words for the Native and Black populations that were a tad less polite, but otherwise that was the debate... It's core purpose was to prevent us from ever having a national military... oops... Basically the American Civil War made the second amendment a moot point - because it settled the issue of states being allowed to wage their own wars and said 'no'. That said, the notion that the national military might be something fielded by local governments, piecemeal like in a Feudal nation, was not yet settled - that was settled in the years between our war with Spain (1902) and the US joining WWI. Many people don't know this, but the whole story of Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba was that he was using his own private army deputized into the US military - which was how it was done until WWI was just too big of a conflict for that idea to work anymore... and the idea of rich people riding into battle personally to prove their manhood ended when our conflict with Spain got so grisly over in the Philippines... better to let poor people of color suffer those injuries... Professional soldiers get a lot of training in properly handling a firearm. Use, care, cleaning, storage, checking to see if it's loaded or not, and so on... and they tend to have a good understanding of how to conduct themselves around it. At least for the USA, those trained AFTER Vietnam... we had a policy shift as a result of Vietnam. Going into that war we didn't train our troops on guns because the military assumed everyone was named Bubba (regardless of gender) and had grown up with a dog named Yeller, a red pickup, and a shotgun named Ol' Betsy in the truck bed... and then they got themselves a whole bunch of city folk who didn't know the difference between the barrel and the trigger... Since Vietnam gun training has been something they take very seriously... But a lot of people who buy guns have as their training, a mix of movies starring Bruce Willis and Silvester Stalone, and maybe Geena Davis too... I really don't care how psychologically evaluated someone is. I don't think guns have a place outside of a military garrison. And the age old "how we gonna fight off tyranny if we're unarmed" rant carries little water with me when the government rolls out with tanks, drones, cruise missiles, and more... If you let things get so bad that the only way you have left to resist is guns, you've already lost... I think American Police help reinforce my perception that guns in the hands of civilians, even those trained to use them, ends poorly. If you're using guns to police your population, you're not doing it right... you police with persuasion and cultural norms, not force - unless your goal is not correction but intimidation and repression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said: And the age old "how we gonna fight off tyranny if we're unarmed" rant carries little water with me when the government rolls out with tanks, drones, cruise missiles, and more... Or when the people who use the jack booted thugs to justify every gun they have ever owned side with the jack booted thugs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said: ....If you let things get so bad that the only way you have left to resist is guns, you've already lost... Exactly. I am not quoting everything to save page space but i agree 100% with all that you have written. 30 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said: I think American Police help reinforce my perception that guns in the hands of civilians, even those trained to use them, ends poorly. If you're using guns to police your population, you're not doing it right... you police with persuasion and cultural norms, not force - unless your goal is not correction but intimidation and repression. Lets be serious you don't shoot people that you have stopped to check their seat belt or while investigating if they bought cigarettes with a supposedly counterfeited 20 dollar bill or you noticed they had a broken tail light. Seriously there's a huge problem with the society that you have build and that goes from top to bottom when such things happen. For example i happen to have a broken tail light in my motorcycle since the last idk 5-6 years and to be honest when i drive around i look far more aggressive then these guys in the videos who simply went to a gas station or whatever due to the fact that my motorcycle is black without any manufacturer logo etc, i wear a black jacket and an aggressive type helmet with pitch black visor. In your country they would probably shoot me thinking i carry some nuclear bomb on me or something, over here the police of course is cautious when they stop me and everyone else due to not knowing us but not a single one takes out its gun from the holster and we end up talking about random bullsh*t and actually don't even write me a ticket for the tail light.. And no i don't live in some kind of utopia or land of anarchy. You don't shoot people just because you think they look suspicious or arrest someone for bullsh*t reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said: And the age old "how we gonna fight off tyranny if we're unarmed" rant carries little water with me when the government rolls out with tanks, drones, cruise missiles, and more.. I am building my own Jaeger. I need a co-pilot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nick0678 said: when i drive around i look far more aggressive then these guys in the videos who simply went to a gas station or whatever due to the fact that my motorcycle is black without any manufacturer logo etc, i wear a black jacket and an aggressive type helmet with pitch black visor. One thing to note there that may be alien to you since you're not from the USA... but we are hyper-trained to see black males as intimidating and threatening... even when they're smaller, younger, disabled, etc... It's like a psychotic disorder on a national level to get 'triggered' by a black male - even among, sadly, other black men and women... So when you say "i look far more aggressive then these guys", to many Americans that's not actually possible... This is a very sad and in most contexts disgusting analogy... but if you ever saw the movie 'Up!'... the dogs in that go nuts anytime someone says 'squirrel'... For American police replace 'squirrel' with 'black male'... the behavior is the same... You can find videos of police acting nice and friendly with a white guy that has just finished shooting a bunch of kids in a school... and you can find videos of them going psycho on an unarmed black male trying to surrender... - that's not because they 'like' the white shooter, but because they've stopped/contained him... but a black male, even dead and lying in a pool of blood in the street, is still not 'contained/stopped', so they remain psyched out around him... (Michael Brown for example, the way they acted around his body even after they had murdered him, shows this point). It's just... beyond rational. It's 400 years of brainwashing to be the attack dogs for a system designed to keep the non-white population put down. When you see all these conservatives talking in panic about a race war and about this fictional idea called 'reverse racism'... that's a real fear and a real panic brought on by this national psychosis, this extreme brainwashing... they genuinely fear that if they don't put the 'coloreds down' they will be slaughtered... Every now and then we even get one of their preachers on TV talking about an incorrect retelling of Haiti just to 'remind them' to stay afraid... To an outside observer... actually even to a lot of us... it's just crazy, but that crazy has real and tragic consequences... Edited July 22, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Nick0678 said: I don't know it's still way too high compared to European Union and we are not 1 country here, each one has different laws and different police policies.. Still tho we are 450 million people , you guys there are 330 and you have many more murders than us. Maybe it's time to reconsider your "right to have a gun". Well, I think it's more looking at where the majority of that happens rather than shoving those areas under the rug as both sides do so well when something similar happens in the suburbs or nicer area a time or two.. work to improve those areas.. Gun violence happens every single day in certain areas, but let one nut job walk into a suburban Walmart with a gun, and it's time for new gun laws,break out the psychiatrist, lets close the schools so teachers and kids can morn and get their heads on straight, because omg all hell is breaking loose.. meanwhile, This weekend in Chicago 60 shooting took place, now here's johnny with the sports..How those Cubs looking Johnny? People can look at our gun murder rate until they are blue in the face and try to convince themselves that it's knocking on their back door.. But it's not.. It's much more condensed than that.. The numbers gets used for other agendas all the time..Yet those areas with the higher numbers get, Shoved under the rug and ignored, looked at as happening somewhere else and the beat goes on.. Here is a good little read. Gun Violence and the Minority Experience Edited July 22, 2020 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said: I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. This is why we usually have to code talk around white people. Start speaking truthfully and they start freaking out about you 'radicalizing' because they don't want to actually see what's in the mirror. This thread is mild compared to almost anything you'd hear in person if the folks around you ignored that someone white was around for a few minutes. Radical? Ain't nothing said in here even mild... This thread is still going after 48 pages - so I've assumed that means that people, agree or not with it - want the see or know the perspective that exists in the non-white world. But you're also going to have to realize that 'radicalized' comes with the territory because my very biology as mixed race is a radical extremist thing to the "mainstream". And the very fact of any person of color with their own experience of life is radical to the "mainstream". So... "calm down"? that's just it's own kind of code for 'get back in your box, be silent, and stop speaking your experience. Here's the thing; our life experiences are most likely radically different. Our history may be shared but's it's been a conflict for some centuries now. So we're not going to see things the same way. We're not going to see the same motives in some actions, we're not going to see the same truths out of the same facts. Countries these days that have had a genocide and trying to move past it tend to do a 'truth and reconciliation'. That's something that will make some people extremely uncomfortable. It's also a step the US has never taken despite multiple genocides and decades of various kinds of 'Jim Crowe' systems... So radical... this is mild. The conversation, the truth, has barely even started up... Edited July 22, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I may be wrong, but I think the "calm down" advice had more to do with the doomsday-ish turn this thread has taken at times, and the reinforcement of anxiety that may come with it. The world doesn't have to be perfect for us to start making positive differences in our own lives, which is good cos it will never be perfect, and neither will we. Anger doesn't own us if we don't let it. ☮️ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceing Braveheart Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said: This is why we usually have to code talk around white people. Start speaking truthfully and they start freaking out about you 'radicalizing' because they don't want to actually see what's in the mirror. all lives matter or no lives matter if you cannot handle this then don't speak 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, iceing Braveheart said: all lives matter or no lives matter if you cannot handle this then don't speak there is no case where no lives matter everybody's life matters to someone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 On 6/10/2020 at 2:39 PM, kali Wylder said: I read one called "I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness" by Austin Channing Brown and now I'm reading "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DiAngelo. This white fragility is really difficult to read. Not that it's not well written or is too complex to digest, but because of the way it makes me feel. And since I love SL and I'm an introverted recluse whose only social outlet is SL, I would love to talk about it here. I wonder if in the 48 pages anyone even mentioned, let alone discussed, the books mention in the OP. I'm not about to wade through 48 pages to find out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Akane Nacht said: I may be wrong, but I think the "calm down" advice had more to do with the doomsday-ish turn this thread has taken at times, and the reinforcement of anxiety that may come with it. The world doesn't have to be perfect for us to start making positive differences in our own lives, which is good cos it will never be perfect, and neither will we. Anger doesn't own us if we don't let it. ☮️ What part of the discussion has turned Doomsday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said: This is why we usually have to code talk around white people. Start speaking truthfully and they start freaking out about you 'radicalizing' because they don't want to actually see what's in the mirror. This thread is mild compared to almost anything you'd hear in person if the folks around you ignored that someone white was around for a few minutes. Radical? Ain't nothing said in here even mild... This thread is still going after 48 pages - so I've assumed that means that people, agree or not with it - want the see or know the perspective that exists in the non-white world. But you're also going to have to realize that 'radicalized' comes with the territory because my very biology as mixed race is a radical extremist thing to the "mainstream". And the very fact of any person of color with their own experience of life is radical to the "mainstream". So... "calm down"? that's just it's own kind of code for 'get back in your box, be silent, and stop speaking your experience. Here's the thing; our life experiences are most likely radically different. Our history may be shared but's it's been a conflict for some centuries now. So we're not going to see things the same way. We're not going to see the same motives in some actions, we're not going to see the same truths out of the same facts. Countries these days that have had a genocide and trying to move past it tend to do a 'truth and reconciliation'. That's something that will make some people extremely uncomfortable. It's also a step the US has never taken despite multiple genocides and decades of various kinds of 'Jim Crowe' systems... So radical... this is mild. The conversation, the truth, has barely even started up... I have so much respect for you. I'm sorry if I have not always shown it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Janet Voxel said: What part of the discussion has turned Doomsday? Maybe the part where the other POC (the non black ones) were shouted down and ran out of the thread. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: I have so much respect for you. I'm sorry if I have not always shown it. Ditto for me. She is such an intelligent girl with so much to share. Things I never knew before. All this Thanksgiving stuff and 4th of July is meaningless drivel among other words I could use but won't now. To be honest, I never liked either of those holidays before but I am angry. I'm angry at this country for things it's done. I hope the 21st Century will be better than all these horrible things in the past. I hope Biden is elected. If Biden is elected, I think things will change. It may not be a perfect change but I think things will change. Edited July 22, 2020 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Talaj Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bree Giffen said: I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. What do you mean, Bree? "getting radicalized" to me usually connotes an active attempt by people with an agenda that is far outside social norms attempting to recruit allies from the general population. I just see people recounting their experiences, which may SEEM outside of social norms, but which for me are expanding my definition of "social norm" to include the less-than-pleasant experiences of those whose daily lives generally are not spotlighted. It is hard, and in my view inappropriate, to "calm down" when your neighbors are being tear-gassed nightly. Or when you fear to let your 23 year old son go shopping for your elderly lady neighbor because it's after 8:30 at night. Edited July 22, 2020 by Nika Talaj 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Akane Nacht said: I may be wrong, but I think the "calm down" advice had more to do with the doomsday-ish turn this thread has taken at times, and the reinforcement of anxiety that may come with it. The world doesn't have to be perfect for us to start making positive differences in our own lives, which is good cos it will never be perfect, and neither will we. Anger doesn't own us if we don't let it. Pain must be acknowledged by self and others before it can be transcended. This is just Psychology 101 -- it's called "the stages of grief". Instead, here in America, we've either denied that POC have this pain because we don't want to face the fact that we've harmed them, or if we do manage to admit to our culpability we try to shut them down during the anger phase of dealing with grief because the anger frightens us. How dare you come in here and suggest how Blacks should be managing their pain according to your timetable lest they have some sort of "doomsday" attitude, or imply that anger has "owned" them because you determine they are not making positive changes. Edited July 22, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said: 9 hours ago, Bree Giffen said: I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. What do you mean, Bree? "getting radicalized" to me usually connotes an active attempt by people with an agenda that is far outside social norms attempting to recruit allies from the general population. I just see people recounting their experiences, which may SEEM outside of social norms, but which for me are expanding my definition of "social norm" to include the less-than-pleasant experiences of those whose daily lives generally are not spotlighted. It is hard, and in my view inappropriate, to "calm down" when your neighbors are being tear-gassed nightly. Or when you fear to let your 23 year old son go shopping for your elderly lady neighbor because it's after 8:30 at night. I think "radicalized" is "wypipo" speak for "stop rocking the boat". Unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: How dare you come in here and suggest how Blacks should be managing their pain according to your timetable lest they have some sort of "doomsday" attitude, or imply that anger has "owned" them because you determine they are not making positive changes. Yeah, I liked her statement, now I'm realizing I just woke up and barely had one cup of coffee. And, as far as doomsday, I didn't feel that in this thread either. I'm angry myself. I'm angry, just angry. I want to see changes, too. I think with Biden, change will begin. I'm angry at Thanksgiving now and the way the whole "Indian" thing is treated and taught in schools for another thing. And, the GI Bill and just a lot of things. I'm angry at the white bread sugar-coating. It's sickening. I always was uncomfortable with it. Edited July 22, 2020 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, FairreLilette said: On 7/21/2020 at 9:57 AM, Luna Bliss said: *remembers the new tablet I just ordered from Amazon..... Just out of curiosity about your tablet, did you even compare prices with Ebay? Well Ebay didn't have the one I wanted in twilight blue, and I just had to have a twilight blue case But my thoughts were heading beyond simply not shopping at the huge stores who are sucking in obscene amounts of wealth while the lower levels of society live in poverty. We need to move to a place where the workers own the companies as opposed to a few at the top. For example, take Walmart --The Walton family, which owns Wal-Mart, controls a fortune equal to the wealth of the bottom 42% of Americans combined (2013 figures). What if, instead, those workers at walmart earning pitiful wages so low that many qualify for food stamps and medical assistance, actually owned the store themselves and received the profit -- managed it as they saw fit and considered the health of society as much as profits. Now if society operated in this way, more localized, I may not be able to get my twilight blue tablet, but I'd trade that for more people having medical care and food security. Edited July 22, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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