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8 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

I don't know it's still way too high compared to European Union and we are not 1 country here, each one has different laws and different police policies..

Still tho we are 450 million people , you guys there are 330 and you have many more murders than us. Maybe it's time to reconsider your "right to have a gun".

T2OgQ0B.png    
     
     

Well, I think it's more looking at where the majority of that happens  rather than shoving those areas under the rug as both sides do so well when something similar happens in the suburbs or nicer area a time or two.. work to improve those areas..

Gun violence happens every single day in certain areas, but let one nut job walk into a suburban Walmart with a gun, and it's time for new gun laws,break out the psychiatrist, lets close the schools so teachers and kids can morn and get their heads on straight, because omg all hell is breaking loose..

meanwhile, This weekend in Chicago 60 shooting took place, now here's johnny with the sports..How those Cubs looking Johnny?

People can look at our gun murder rate until they are blue in the face and try to convince themselves that it's knocking on their back door.. But it's not.. It's much more condensed than that.. The numbers gets used for other agendas all the time..Yet those areas with the higher numbers get, Shoved under the rug and ignored, looked at as happening somewhere else and the beat goes on..

Here is a good little read.

Gun Violence and the Minority Experience

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

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1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. 

This is why we usually have to code talk around white people.

Start speaking truthfully and they start freaking out about you 'radicalizing' because they don't want to actually see what's in the mirror.

 

This thread is mild compared to almost anything you'd hear in person if the folks around you ignored that someone white was around for a few minutes. Radical? Ain't nothing said in here even mild...

 

This thread is still going after 48 pages - so I've assumed that means that people, agree or not with it - want the see or know the perspective that exists in the non-white world. But you're also going to have to realize that 'radicalized' comes with the territory because my very biology as mixed race is a radical extremist thing to the "mainstream". And the very fact of any person of color with their own experience of life is radical to the "mainstream". So... "calm down"? that's just it's own kind of code for 'get back in your box, be silent, and stop speaking your experience.

Here's the thing; our life experiences are most likely radically different. Our history may be shared but's it's been a conflict for some centuries now. So we're not going to see things the same way. We're not going to see the same motives in some actions, we're not going to see the same truths out of the same facts.

 

Countries these days that have had a genocide and trying to move past it tend to do a 'truth and reconciliation'. That's something that will make some people extremely uncomfortable. It's also a step the US has never taken despite multiple genocides and decades of various kinds of 'Jim Crowe' systems...

So radical... this is mild. The conversation, the truth, has barely even started up...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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I may be wrong, but I think the "calm down" advice had more to do with the doomsday-ish turn this thread has taken at times, and the reinforcement of anxiety that may come with it.

The world doesn't have to be perfect for us to start making positive differences in our own lives, which is good cos it will never be perfect, and neither will we. Anger doesn't own us if we don't let it.

☮️

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3 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

This is why we usually have to code talk around white people.

Start speaking truthfully and they start freaking out about you 'radicalizing' because they don't want to actually see what's in the mirror.

all lives matter or no lives matter if you cannot handle this then don't speak

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On 6/10/2020 at 2:39 PM, kali Wylder said:

I read one called "I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness" by Austin Channing Brown and now I'm reading "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DiAngelo. This white fragility is really difficult to read.  Not that it's not well written or is too complex to digest, but because of the way it makes me feel.

And since I love SL and I'm an introverted recluse whose only social outlet is SL, I would love to talk about it here.

I wonder if in the 48 pages anyone even mentioned, let alone discussed, the books mention in the OP.  I'm not about to wade through 48 pages to find out.

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5 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

I may be wrong, but I think the "calm down" advice had more to do with the doomsday-ish turn this thread has taken at times, and the reinforcement of anxiety that may come with it.

The world doesn't have to be perfect for us to start making positive differences in our own lives, which is good cos it will never be perfect, and neither will we. Anger doesn't own us if we don't let it.

☮️

What part of the discussion has turned Doomsday?

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6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

This is why we usually have to code talk around white people.

Start speaking truthfully and they start freaking out about you 'radicalizing' because they don't want to actually see what's in the mirror.

 

This thread is mild compared to almost anything you'd hear in person if the folks around you ignored that someone white was around for a few minutes. Radical? Ain't nothing said in here even mild...

 

This thread is still going after 48 pages - so I've assumed that means that people, agree or not with it - want the see or know the perspective that exists in the non-white world. But you're also going to have to realize that 'radicalized' comes with the territory because my very biology as mixed race is a radical extremist thing to the "mainstream". And the very fact of any person of color with their own experience of life is radical to the "mainstream". So... "calm down"? that's just it's own kind of code for 'get back in your box, be silent, and stop speaking your experience.

Here's the thing; our life experiences are most likely radically different. Our history may be shared but's it's been a conflict for some centuries now. So we're not going to see things the same way. We're not going to see the same motives in some actions, we're not going to see the same truths out of the same facts.

 

Countries these days that have had a genocide and trying to move past it tend to do a 'truth and reconciliation'. That's something that will make some people extremely uncomfortable. It's also a step the US has never taken despite multiple genocides and decades of various kinds of 'Jim Crowe' systems...

So radical... this is mild. The conversation, the truth, has barely even started up...

 

I have so much respect for you. I'm sorry if I have not always shown it.

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1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I have so much respect for you. I'm sorry if I have not always shown it.

Ditto for me.  She is such an intelligent girl with so much to share.  Things I never knew before.  

All this Thanksgiving stuff and 4th of July is meaningless drivel among other words I could use but won't now.  To be honest, I never liked either of those holidays before but I am angry.  I'm angry at this country for things it's done.  

I hope the 21st Century will be better than all these horrible things in the past.  I hope Biden is elected.  If Biden is elected, I think things will change.  It may not be a perfect change but I think things will change.  

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9 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. 

What do you mean, Bree?

"getting radicalized" to me usually connotes an active attempt by people with an agenda that is far outside social norms attempting to recruit allies from the general population.  I just see people recounting their experiences, which may SEEM outside of social norms, but which for me are expanding my definition of "social norm" to include the less-than-pleasant experiences of those whose daily lives generally are not spotlighted.

It is hard, and in my view inappropriate, to "calm down" when your neighbors are being tear-gassed nightly.  Or when you fear to let your 23 year old son go shopping for your elderly lady neighbor because it's after 8:30 at night.

Edited by Nika Talaj
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8 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

I may be wrong, but I think the "calm down" advice had more to do with the doomsday-ish turn this thread has taken at times, and the reinforcement of anxiety that may come with it.

The world doesn't have to be perfect for us to start making positive differences in our own lives, which is good cos it will never be perfect, and neither will we. Anger doesn't own us if we don't let it.

Pain must be acknowledged by self and others before it can be transcended.  This is just Psychology 101 -- it's called "the stages of grief". Instead, here in America, we've either denied that POC have this pain because we don't want to face the fact that we've harmed them, or if we do manage to admit to our culpability we try to shut them down during the anger phase of dealing with grief because the anger frightens us.

How dare you come in here and suggest how Blacks should be managing their pain according to your timetable lest they have some sort of "doomsday" attitude, or imply that anger has "owned" them because you determine they are not making positive changes. 

Edited by Luna Bliss
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17 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:
9 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I really think you all just need to calm down. Your attitudes are not helping to create change in the system. It feels like this thread is getting radicalized. 

What do you mean, Bree?

"getting radicalized" to me usually connotes an active attempt by people with an agenda that is far outside social norms attempting to recruit allies from the general population.  I just see people recounting their experiences, which may SEEM outside of social norms, but which for me are expanding my definition of "social norm" to include the less-than-pleasant experiences of those whose daily lives generally are not spotlighted.

It is hard, and in my view inappropriate, to "calm down" when your neighbors are being tear-gassed nightly.  Or when you fear to let your 23 year old son go shopping for your elderly lady neighbor because it's after 8:30 at night.

I think "radicalized" is "wypipo" speak for "stop rocking the boat".  Unfortunately.

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18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How dare you come in here and suggest how Blacks should be managing their pain according to your timetable lest they have some sort of "doomsday" attitude, or imply that anger has "owned" them because you determine they are not making positive changes. 

Yeah, I liked her statement, now I'm realizing I just woke up and barely had one cup of coffee.  And, as far as doomsday, I didn't feel that in this thread either.  

I'm angry myself.  I'm angry, just angry.  I want to see changes, too.  I think with Biden, change will begin.  

I'm angry at Thanksgiving now and the way the whole "Indian" thing is treated and taught in schools for another thing.  And, the GI Bill and just a lot of things.  I'm angry at the white bread sugar-coating.    It's sickening.  I always was uncomfortable with it.

Edited by FairreLilette
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23 hours ago, FairreLilette said:
On 7/21/2020 at 9:57 AM, Luna Bliss said:

*remembers the new tablet I just ordered from Amazon.....

Just out of curiosity about your tablet, did you even compare prices with Ebay?

Well Ebay didn't have the one I wanted in twilight blue, and I just had to have a twilight blue case :)

But my thoughts were heading beyond simply not shopping at the huge stores who are sucking in obscene amounts of wealth while the lower levels of society live in poverty.  We need to move to a place where the workers own the companies as opposed to a few at the top.

For example, take Walmart --The Walton family, which owns Wal-Mart, controls a fortune equal to the wealth of the bottom 42% of Americans combined (2013 figures).  What if, instead, those workers at walmart earning pitiful wages so low that many qualify for food stamps and medical assistance, actually owned the store themselves and received the profit -- managed it as they saw fit and considered the health of society as much as profits.

Now if society operated in this way, more localized, I may not be able to get my twilight blue tablet, but I'd trade that for more people having medical care and food security.

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1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm angry at Thanksgiving now and the way the whole "Indian" thing is treated and taught in schools for another thing.  And, the GI Bill and just a lot of things.  Angry. 

Sorry to you with delicate little skins....please avoid the following graphic if you are prone to anxiety....truth can be hard on the psyche....and this graphic needs to be in the high school textbooks we discussed earlier so that truth starts at the  very beginning:

 

native school poster.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Maybe the part where the other POC (the non black ones) were shouted down and ran out of the thread.

Shouted down? There's a handful of self identifying POC that even post here, let alone this thread. There isn't a mob shouting anybody down. I have seen people that are for this movement called harpies and other little micro-aggressions in other threads and it has been made clear some people don't want this discussion to take place, period.

Ran out of the thread? You've got to be kidding me. It's seems to me, there are a string of posters that come in here daily with a different argument and when they are countered with facts, there's a new argument.

The point of the thread was to learn about other experiences. Which immediately got shouted down because of the phrase "woke" and "white privledge" ok, fair point. Don't like those terms, I agree they are divisive. Even Noam Chomski said cancel culture is bad. The idea still remains, we're on an uncomfortable journey to heal, it might be wise to learn something.

I stopped posting because it did get ridiculous. Some people just can't stay on topic, that's not unusual for this forum and it shouldn't be surprising that it happens here too. But to slap Marxism, Communism on a movement to invalidate it as a backslide to authoritarianism, when there is real authoritarianism happening right now that has nothing to do with Marxism or Communism is intellectually dishonest and to pretend "Oh hey guys, this is getting radical, can we please stop? LOL" is just nasty. 

I posted that graph from 1961 for a reason, that was uncomfortable and radical too and a large majority didn't want that back then either. Apparently, not much progress has been made since then.

 

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49 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Maybe the part where the other POC (the non black ones) were shouted down and ran out of the thread.

There is so much wrong with this statement, that I had to quote it for posterity. (In case the poster edits / deletes it.)

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18 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Apparently, not much progress has been made since then.

There has been some progress Janet in multi-cultural, multi-ethnic communities.  Living in multi-cultural communities has been one of the best experiences of my life.  I feel a bit privileged for that even.

Yesterday, I was in the lobby with two men.  I live here with these men.  Nothing was unusual to me nor scary nor un-nerving nor anything.  To me, they are just two men I've seen hundreds of times already as I live here with them.  But, then I remembered what Pussycat wrote about others being startled or uneasy simply because it is a Black man.  I didn't even realize I was with a Black Man and an Hispanic man as they are just "Joe" and "Jose" to me until I remembered Pussycat writing that most of American society is afraid if a Black man is around.  It isn't so here though.  It's just every day norm here.  

I wish I could put this into better words to explain that I never knew how they might feel inside, like others may not trust them.  I didn't know they might feel that way.  They are two good and pleasant guys.  We all get along very well in my building except for one man who seems to have serious problems with women around.  He throws spit balls at women or bits of torn paper and even raised a fist towards one women, but otherwise we all get along except for this one person.   Even the men don't like this guy, but otherwise we even have people here from Israel and Iran, it's people from everywhere live in my building and we all get along except for one man with women issues perhaps.  

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21 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

There has been some progress Janet in multi-cultural, multi-ethnic communities.  Living in multi-cultural communities has been one of the best experiences of my life.  I feel a bit privileged for that even.

Thank you for sharing that. That was kinda the point of the thread to begin with.

That wasn't what I was saying though. If you look at the number of people that are for this movement that have posted here and compare that to the number of people that are against it for whatever reason, it would be similar to the graph from 1961....maybe even higher, which to me is frightening and appalling. 

If only everyone felt the way you do, but judging from the responses (and lack of responses to them)....people don't.

Edited by Janet Voxel
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Hey as someone with an actual anxiety disorder. I get more anxious at the people trying to  shut down the  Black voices of the forums in this thread, dismiss their pain and  treat their justified angry as "too radical" Because it's very anxiety  inducing to see how little some people care for their fellow human beings, It's anxiety inducing to have your illness used as a battering ram to try and  silence  people who are  HURTING.

I don't understand how people can hyerfocus on the tone and not the content. There are people being murdered, abused and in Portland,  taken off the street by federal officers in unmarked vans. I think that's more important then feeling a little bit uncomfortable because the conversation isn't sugar-coated.

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1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Maybe the part where the other POC (the non black ones) were shouted down and ran out of the thread.

That hasn't happened yet. 😉

Pretty sure Ceka is Native American, I'm multi-racial and best described as Mulatto (I don't re-mention it with every post, but I do mention it so often that I get messages/comments/ or eyerolls telling me to stop)...

And I was it Akane who is from Singapore and while not stated I suspect NOT an Anglo.

Plenty of folks of various backgrounds in here.

 

My "radical" stance comes from living in both Chicano Community where - we also get shot and arrested and followed around and killed... Not to the same degree as the African Americans I have also lived alongside, but still quite a lot. My first arrest came at age 5, my first friend lynched by a white mob came when I was about 20 - though it's more correct to say they pushed her head under a car tire...

(Pay enough attention to my posts, when I have thought them through at least, and I flip between noting 400 years and 500 years... there's a reason for that. Chicano and Native people speak to 500 years, African Americans typically speak to 400 - though if you know the history of the Fall of Songhai you might date that another century or two depending).

My point of view has always been to see solidarity where I can find it. I've lived through enough moments where the mainstream got people to turn against each other to have the desire to see that happen again...

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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I don’t think you understand my viewpoint. I’m the peaceful protestor who tries to stop people in the crowd from throwing rocks and burning buildings. Not the maga hat wearing counter protestor. I agree with the need for change but not with the more radical elements. All of you need to recognize the change which can be made in a peaceful and lawful manner. Go to the ballot box don’t riot in the streets.

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