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5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:
9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Almost everyone in Singapore has darker skin -- most are of Chinese, Malaysian, & Indian descent -- there's very little oppression there on account of skin color. So, no -- Arkane has no special empathy on account of having darker skin -- she has not been scapegoated and traumatized the way Blacks in the US have. Each country is unique in how oppression plays out among the population, and believe me the US is unique, and in a very bad way.

Regarding nudging another to move emotionally from one stage to another, the person doing the nudging needs to be able to see the other side clearly before any attempt should be made, and Arkane has seldom demonstrated she understands, or even wants to understand, the specifics of racial issues in America.

The OP did not mention the discussion was only for American racism or wokeness. Though I had been pooh poohing the idea of white privilege up to now I have to admit that the the more of your postings I read on this topic, the more I am having to admit it is a thing for you, being that you as a white person, feel you have the privilege to dictate as to which minorities and from where are allowed to have an opinion or share their own thoughts on the topic.

Honestly, you have twisted this in the most utterly ridiculous way I don't know where to begin. I've never said or implied people from other countries should not post their perceptions here -- in fact, I welcome their voice on this thread and have reasonably debated many of them.

This is very different from the point you were making however, which I countered. You said Akane would have empathy and should be able to tell POC when to change their emotional state away from anger because her darker skin gives her empathy, that she has "traveled the same path".  However if you live in a country where darker skin does not matter because everybody has dark skin, and you live in a country which never had the insane levels and specific types of racism the US has experienced due to that skin color, then one's skin color simply could not be a source of empathy.

You said: "Psychology 201 recognizes that some get stuck at one of the stages and may need a gentle nudge to the next level. Someone with some empathy who has traveled the same path is probably the best suited to do so. I felt Arkane being a POC was entirely appropriate in doing so."

 

Edited by Luna Bliss
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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Honestly, you have twisted this in the most utterly ridiculous way I don't know where to begin. I've never said or implied people from other countries should not post their perceptions here -- in fact, I welcome their voice on this thread and have reasonably debated many of them.

This is very different from the point you were making however, which I countered. You said Akane would have empathy and should be able to tell POC when to change their emotional state away from anger because her darker skin gives her empathy.  However if you live in a country where darker skin does not matter because everybody has dark skin, and you live in a country which never had the insane levels and specific types of racism the US has experienced due to that skin color, then one's skin color simply could not be a source of empathy.

It's also very similar logic to posting a video of a right wing black person as if to say "See! they're black and they disagree too! So you must be wrong!" 

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14 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

It's also very similar logic to posting a video of a right wing black person as if to say "See! they're black and they disagree too! So you must be wrong!"

The inability many people have in processing very simple concepts, the lack of logical reasoning skills.....I honestly don't know how to express just how disturbing this is.  It's more disturbing than encountering the worst type of griefer because sorting issues out between reasonably decent people then seems hopeless.

It reminds me of when a couple of people equated my suggesting that people become aware of any part they might play in contributing to racial issues (their white privilege) as wanting them to be punished.  What??

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10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The inability many people have in processing very simple concepts, the lack of logical reasoning skills.....

It's not an inability or lack of, it's simply an unwillingness to...and what is really scary the propensity to attempt to "Own" and "Shred" you and your own viewpoint while simultaneously saying "....see, you're not willing to hear both sides of this. What we really need to do is come to an understanding.Why don't you want to just come to an understanding?"

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21 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

The truce was in the 90s. It was organized by Tookie Williams, founder of the Crips, and Nobel Peace prize winner for his anti-gang program that he started in prison to steer kids away from gangs. He was later executed by the state.

There's a second truce right now actually.

 

The areas that had projects and all of that didn't have them before the 50s and 60s. Just as in the Bay Area - project housing was a part of "Urban Renewal" which was about 'city cleanup' which was about moving people of color "out of the way" so that businesses could set up offices and freeways could be put down and so on.

 

JUST LIKE the Keystone XL-pipeline... all the development for some magical reason had to go through neighborhoods of color...

And this was seen as 'upliftment' because social scientists would go into communities of color and see 'people hanging out in front of houses talking, children running around outside, and old ladies just sitting there watching' and think this was blight... rather than realizes... the community is socializing, the kids are playing, and grandma's are taking shifts to watch those kids...

But I believe areas like Watts used to be Irish or Mexican before... well... ALL of California used to be Mexican... but before as in right before the Urban Renewal folks moved everyone around with eminent domain land seizures...

 

 

I missed this post yesterday.  I didn't see it.

I thought I had read the truce had started earlier in 1970's.  But, I read yesterday, the truce is still ongoing.  

I see about the homes.  I was wondering how old they had been there and if they were built during segregation.  So, thanks for the info that they weren't.

There are "turf wars" here in Southern California though.  There are people of different colors and beliefs that don't want to integrate.  They don't want others on their turf and they have wars about it.  Do you know anything about this?   The "turf wars"?    Some of Southern California is multi-ethnic/multi-cultural/multi-religious but other others are segregated and there are "turf wars".   I don't think the people who have turf wars want to be integrated with others.  Some hate each other, frankly.   We cannot force people to be integrated.  I'm not even for forced busing unless the kids and parents and teachers want it because it's a very long bus ride, so I think it's up to the kids and their parents.  

EDIT:  p.s.  I had heard Bob Hope bought most of the property for the Valley and other parts such as Santa Clarita Valley.  I'm not sure exactly though just how much property Bob Hope bought, but he had a great deal of it.  However, The Valley (which is really the San Fernando Valley) and the Santa Clarita Valley are both extremely multi-ethnic and especially the Santa Clarita Valley where I lived for 20 years could be the United Nations.  I call it that sometimes because it is.  And, it's very peaceful.  The Santa Clarita Valley had the 4th lowest crime rate for the whole country; our little United Nations community of just about everybody, 4th lowest crime rate for the whole country.    

Edited by FairreLilette
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Just wanted to post this here, this relates to the mural painting on streets and how others cannot be denied since it's set precedent. You either allow murals for all or for none, because streets are taxpayer funded, as I said...

Snip:

Activists who led an effort to paint a "Black Lives Matter" street painting say that the words were removed from a city street after a conservative resident emailed town officials demanding the right to paint a mural in support of President Trump on the same street.

Local news affiliate KRON 4 reported that Redwood City officials moved last week to quietly remove the yellow-painted words "Black Lives Matter" from Redwood City's Broadway, a stretch of boulevard leading through the city's downtown area.

 

Full story here: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/508492-activists-say-california-city-removed-black-lives-matter-street

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7 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The OP did not mention the discussion was only for American racism or wokeness. Though I had been pooh poohing the idea of white privilege up to now I have to admit that the the more of your postings I read on this topic, the more I am having to admit it is a thing for you, being that you as a white person, feel you have the privilege to dictate as to which minorities and from where are allowed to have an opinion or share their own thoughts on the topic.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and express it. Some opinions are, of course, sillier than others. 😉

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4 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Just wanted to post this here, this relates to the mural painting on streets and how others cannot be denied since it's set precedent. You either allow murals for all or for none, because streets are taxpayer funded, as I said...

Snip:

Activists who led an effort to paint a "Black Lives Matter" street painting say that the words were removed from a city street after a conservative resident emailed town officials demanding the right to paint a mural in support of President Trump on the same street.

Local news affiliate KRON 4 reported that Redwood City officials moved last week to quietly remove the yellow-painted words "Black Lives Matter" from Redwood City's Broadway, a stretch of boulevard leading through the city's downtown area.

 

Full story here: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/508492-activists-say-california-city-removed-black-lives-matter-street

100% it does create a bad precedent.

It's also not what people are asking for. Murals don't change anything, legislation does.

People aren't protesting for murals and TV shows removing episodes that could be viewed as problematic. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

100% it does create a bad precedent.

It's also not what people are asking for. Murals don't change anything, legislation does.

People aren't protesting for murals and TV shows removing episodes that could be viewed as problematic. 

 

Understood, just posted it because I touched on street murals further back in the thread. I should have stated that.

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

This is very different from the point you were making however, which I countered. You said Akane would have empathy and should be able to tell POC when to change their emotional state away from anger because her darker skin gives her empathy, that she has "traveled the same path".  However if you live in a country where darker skin does not matter because everybody has dark skin, and you live in a country which never had the insane levels and specific types of racism the US has experienced due to that skin color, then one's skin color simply could not be a source of empathy.

It's different from the outside looking in.  I've heard of civil unrest in other countries and thought how sad; I hope it's resolved soon and peace is restored.  It's human nature for most pacifists, as probably most of us here are, to just want peace.  Now, there is civil unrest in America and I think others want to see it resolved peacefully.  We do too!    But, I think Trump's response is fueling more problems.  He's not a good leader.  

Also, Luna, I don't think you understand the "racial" issues of Southern California because you don't live here, and I don't understand the discrimination issues of the state you live in which may be coming from conservative Southern Baptist eschewed views.   

But, just look at this report from the The San Gabriel Tribune, ethnic cleansing of Blacks by Hispanics.  

There are lots of gangs here in Southern California.  The Bloods and The Crips having a decades long truce is a rare truce between two Black gangs.   Do you know how to solve all the problems for Southern California?  Probably, not, it's going to take the people who live here  to do that.   I think the Bloods and the Crips did establish a short-lived truce in the 1970's but now it's been a kind of a truce since the 1990's and these are two Black gangs against each other.   It's like I said before, we have problems in Southern California other's don't understand.  You haven't lived through a nearly 10-year drought for one plus other racial issues which are very alarming here.  

In a murderous quest aimed at “cleansing” their turf of snitches and rival gangsters, members of one of Los Angeles County’s most vicious Latino gangs sometimes killed people just because of their race, an investigation found.

There were even instances in which Florencia 13 leaders ordered killings of black gangsters and then, when the intended victim couldn’t be located, said “Well, shoot any black you see,” Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca said.

“In certain cases some murders were just purely motivated on killing a black person,” Baca said.

Authorities say there were 20 murders among more than 80 shootings documented during the gang’s rampage in the Florence-

Firestone neighborhood, exceptional even in an area where gang violence has been commonplace for decades. They don’t specify the time frame or how many of the killings were racial.

Los Angeles has struggled with gang violence for years, especially during the wars in the late 1980s and early ’90s between the Crips and the Bloods – both black gangs. Latino gangs have gained influence since then as the Hispanic population surged.

 

https://www.sgvtribune.com/2007/12/30/gang-accused-of-racial-cleansing-turf-war/

 

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16 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's different from the outside looking in.  I've heard of civil unrest in other countries and thought how sad; I hope it's resolved soon and peace is restored.  It's human nature for most pacifists as probably most of us here are.  Now, there is civil unrest in America and I think others want to see it resolved peacefully.  We do too!  

Also, Luna, I don't think you understand the "racial" issues of Southern California because you don't live here, and I don't understand the discrimination issues of the state you live in which may be coming from conservative Southern Baptist eschewed views.   

The issue is not whether we can have complete empathy for those in different circumstances and living arrangements -- of course we can't. Nor is their any question in my mind as to whether anyone posting in this thread so far would like the issues resolved and be able to witness a peaceful resolution.

The issue is whether we have a right to tell Blacks they should be done with their anger and move on to being happy now.  I'll let Blacks tell me when that time has arrived, as only they can know when they've dealt with their pain fully and feel Whites have listened sufficiently to their issues.

 

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

when they've dealt with their pain fully and feel Whites have listened sufficiently to their issues.

 

I think this exactly will begin if Biden is elected.  Biden is still eyeing four Black female Senators as his Vice Presidential running mate.  He hasn't quite chosen yet but then I haven't scanned through the morning news yet.

Some feel it may be a token Black or a token women but this is needed now.   I think it's a good idea.  With Trump, I feel uneasy about everything right now. 

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Here you can see the Schutzstaffel troops are just randomly running into crowds and attacking people:

There's a video there, but the forums here don't embed twitter videos.

I'm calling them Schutzstaffel  for a reason.

This is literally out of Hitler's 1930s playbook - it's how his boyz behaved in Berlin when they were solidifying control...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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11 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:
16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

when they've dealt with their pain fully and feel Whites have listened sufficiently to their issues.

 

I think this exactly will begin if Biden is elected.  Biden is still eyeing four Black female Senators as his Vice Presidential running mate.  He hasn't quite chosen yet but then I haven't scanned through the morning news yet.

Some feel it may be a token Black or a token women but this is needed now.   I think it's a good idea.  With Trump, I feel uneasy about everything right now. 

We certainly won't see the blatant racism T-rump has exhibited with his 'divide and conquer' strategies bordering on fascism, so I imagine the conflict would lessen some with Biden. But there are deeper forces which drive the hatred of POC in America, and this must be healed or all the conflict will simply erupt in a more visible form at a later date.  No laws will fix this completely. No president can fix it alone. Only a willingness for Americans to change their hearts and minds can remedy the horrors of America, built on slavery and genocide.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

There are "turf wars" here in Southern California though.  There are people of different colors and beliefs that don't want to integrate.  They don't want others on their turf and they have wars about it.  Do you know anything about this?   The "turf wars"?    Some of Southern California is multi-ethnic/multi-cultural/multi-religious but other others are segregated and there are "turf wars".   I don't think the people who have turf wars want to be integrated with others.  Some hate each other, frankly.   We cannot force people to be integrated.  I'm not even for forced busing unless the kids and parents and teachers want it because it's a very long bus ride, so I think it's up to the kids and their parents. 

What you have is a lot of these places had nicer lower middle class to middle class owner lived in homes. And in the 50s and 60s the government took people's homes away and moved them into 'hoods', making ethnic ghettos out of them, and removed access to jobs.

That is why the turf wars and stuff started up.

Competition over scarcity among people that had their homes taken away and were forced to live like rats in massive complexes, given no access to jobs, usually no access to a grocery store, no easy roads out... FORCED to live on welfare; and then society blamed them for it...

I grew up in this hoods. But unlike a lot of locals, I studied history and urban development. I knew how folks got there... I knew who brought in the guns and drugs...

- Honestly the locals know that last part... a pack of white dudes that look too organized to be civilians dumping guns and drugs in your hood is kind of obvious... I think a decade ago we finally got proof from unclassified documents or a NYT / WSJ investigation proving to the outside world that the CIA dumped crack and guns on us...

It was those LA streets that had me hardened to the idea that my enemy was another race... it was coming to San Francisco that became my Mecca to make me see that the races actually could get along... Why I love Malcolm X so much; he had that same journey a generation earlier.

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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9 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Here you can see the Schutzstaffel troops are just randomly running into crowds and attacking people:

 

Here's my thing....the protests were largely dying down. It was naturally fizzling out cause, you know....Covid, unemployment, people on the verge of being homeless, etc. 

Doing this only makes people want to protest more and more people are actually coming back to protest now, it's making a narrow cause a bigger issue.

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8 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

What you have is a lot of these places had nicer lower middle class to middle class owner lived in homes. And in the 50s and 60s the government took people's homes away and moved them into 'hoods', making ethnic ghettos out of them, and removed access to jobs.

That is why the turf wars and stuff started up.

Competition over scarcity among people that had their homes taken away and were forced to live like rats in massive complexes, given no access to jobs, usually no access to a grocery store, no easy roads out... FORCED to live on welfare; and then society blamed them for it...

I grew up in this hoods. But unlike a lot of locals, I studied history and urban development. I knew how folks got there... I knew who brought in the guns and drugs...

- Honestly the locals know that last part... a pack of white dudes that look too organized to be civilians dumping guns and drugs in your hood is kind of obvious...

8 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Honestly the locals know that last part... a pack of white dudes that look too organized to be civilians dumping guns and drugs in your hood is kind of obvious...

 

Something needs to be ratified here regarding "the hoods".  I was hoping talks could happen so we could know what needed to be done here and not just "assume".  

That last sentence, I think so too.  I even asked in this thread of another thread if anyone thought drugs might be a ploy from white supremacists to keep POC down and/or even incarcerated?

However, you know what most people would say to you and me, Pussycat, about that?  They'd say we're crazy.   And they'd say, there are no government conspiracies.  In other countries though, we could be killed for saying such a thing.    

I'm sorry for all this crap from this country you all have had to deal with.  

 

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7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That last sentence, I think so too.  I even asked in this thread of another thread if anyone thought drugs might be a ploy from white supremacists to keep POC down and/or even incarcerated?

However, you know what most people would say to you and me, Pussycat, about that?  They'd say we're crazy.   And they'd say, there are no government conspiracies.  In other countries though, we could be killed for saying such a thing.

People were called crazy for decades. But then the proof came out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

The CIA justified it as needed to put Crack on American streets to control communists in Latin America... which made about as much sense to me as back when the USA injected black US soldiers with Syphilis at Tuskegee to 'see what would happen'... 1930s through 1970s...

https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-study

This is actual history... and just typing it makes me feel like I'm harping conspiracy theories because yes... it is so crazy... but it's also real...

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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28 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I think this exactly will begin if Biden is elected.  Biden is still eyeing four Black female Senators as his Vice Presidential running mate.  He hasn't quite chosen yet but then I haven't scanned through the morning news yet.

Some feel it may be a token Black or a token women but this is needed now.   I think it's a good idea.  With Trump, I feel uneasy about everything right now. 

It kind of depends on which person he chooses... the most popular pick right now... one of my local senators... made it her career to put young black men in prison... she may talk the talk now, but I see where her feet have walked...

 

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