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4 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:
28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Sure. Let's take your posts in the "pet peeve" thread, where you and several others have been "off topic" for the past 2 days babbling about the joys of ASMR. You post such pearls of wisdom such as:
"First, a very quick definition of Scientism:
'Scientism" is a name for the view that science is the only reliable source of knowledge.............ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!" 
Sorry, there's 4 paragraphs that follow that gem but I always fall asleep before I can copy it all!

Meanwhile, others who want to see and discuss people's "pet peeve's" are posting:
"If you're going to argue (no, not a one of you is truly debating) over ASMR, kindly 
take it to another bloody thread to avoid getting this one closed."
...but you and yes, others, just keep going on...and on....and on....ZZZZZZZ!

Apparently  - "
I can change my brainwaves at will."...really? Well try changing them from "ASMR" to "GTFO"! instead of trying to tell others to do what you can't!

Elaborated enough?

 

10 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Go make a new thread if you want to talk politics.

This thread is not that.

64 previous pages here isn't what this thread is about either....doesn't seem to have sent us all elsewhere does it? lol.

There's a big difference between that thread vs what is happening in this thread.The one obsessed with statues was practically beating us over the head with her obsession although people kept telling her to stop, that they were sick of discussing statues.   It wasn't just one poster popping in and saying "stay on topic" as occurred in the thread you mentioned.  Big difference.

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Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.

Alrighty, now that I've gone ahead and cleared out some not so pleasant posts from this thread I wanted to drop a quick note here. As many of you have seen me say several times before, delving in

Thank you for this.   Black woman here.  Of A Certain Age.  I have my BLM shirt.   For whatever that means. (freewheeling it here, went from wanting to say something to not wanting to say anythi

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, that could be why someone in the UK might not understand the deprivation of those in the US where many of the poor are left out. Nor understand that their system of government includes more elements of socialism that the US does.

 

Ah, yes I forget that about America.

To be clear despite the many labels that people like to put on me as they laugh at me for my views I'm not actually that much right leaning, and up until recently used to vote left *shock*.

100% the NHS here is amazing and I am very glad to live in a country where I do not need to start a gofundme page and engage in a popularity contest with others to get life saving surgery.

I think in truth that the answer lies somewhere in the middle between capitalism and socialism., a little bit of both keeping each other in check. Unfortunately, because that's not taking a hard-left or far-right stance, it doesn't look good on a poster and the media doesn't like to talk about things like that because it doesn't make people fight :/

 

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9 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Well, the thread is about whether or not you support Black Lives Matter. And the Black Lives Matter page in the UK suggests dismantling capitalism, so I think it is relevant

PoC being murdered by the police or suffering at the hands of systemic racism is not a political issue.

Black. Lives. Matter.

as in literally, the lives of black people, matter.

Picking apart the politics of specific organisations that support black lives matter is an unnecessary and irrelevant attempt to attack that simple truth without the appearance of outright racism. Semantics and pedantry wont protect you from that implication on this issue.

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16 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

PoC being murdered by the police or suffering at the hands of systemic racism is not a political issue.

In that case, we may as well all give up and go home, because without the politicians and it being a "political issue".... sod all will ever change!

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Just now, Dano Seale said:

In that case, we may as well all give up and go home, because without the politicians and it being a "political issue".... sod all will ever change!

Change is brought by the people, not politicians. They are reactionary.

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19 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Ah, yes I forget that about America.

To be clear despite the many labels that people like to put on me as they laugh at me for my views I'm not actually that much right leaning, and up until recently used to vote left *shock*.

100% the NHS here is amazing and I am very glad to live in a country where I do not need to start a gofundme page and engage in a popularity contest with others to get life saving surgery.

I think in truth that the answer lies somewhere in the middle between capitalism and socialism., a little bit of both keeping each other in check. Unfortunately, because that's not taking a hard-left or far-right stance, it doesn't look good on a poster and the media doesn't like to talk about things like that because it doesn't make people fight :/

Unregulated capitalism always stratifies a society with intense competition, making winners and losers where those at the bottom (disproportionately minorities) are treating unjustly.  There always needs to be something to mitigate unbridled capitalism to prevent this cruelty.  So yes, capitalism in its pure form without mitigation does need to be dismantled or changed to create a more just society.

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19 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

PoC being murdered by the police or suffering at the hands of systemic racism is not a political issue.

Black. Lives. Matter.

as in literally, the lives of black people, matter.

Yeah, I get that. I think most people who support the movement feel the same way.

The reason I point it out is because usually the organizers of movements have their own politics that they shoehorn into their movement, using the clout and donations they receive to their own goals that don't necessarily line up with the goals of the people donating and supporting it, and I think it is worth pointing out.

19 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

is an unnecessary and irrelevant attempt to attack that simple truth without the appearance of outright racism. Semantics and pedantry wont protect you from that implication on this issue.

48 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

 

It's *REALLY* important everyone knows the person with an anime avatar has a right-wing opinion on statues

I find it telling that in a conversation with you where you virtue signal towards me about race and acceptance, you take it upon yourself to attempt to single me out for having a different appearance than others.

 

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23 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Well, the thread is about whether or not you support Black Lives Matter. And the Black Lives Matter page in the UK suggests dismantling capitalism, so I think it is relevant

As a bit of a fence sitter on the whole BLM agenda, I feel this information makes this post one of the top five in this thread. 

I can get behind the police brutality aspect, I can get behind the discrimination part and even the need for healthcare and increased mental health services for those countries lacking them but if they can only do so by having to dismantle the whole political system even in those countries that already have many of those things, then I'll have to remain on the fence or look to support an organization that includes those aspects without the politics. 

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Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

I can get behind the police brutality aspect, I can get behind the discrimination part and even the need for healthcare and increased mental health services for those countries lacking them but if they can only do so by having to dismantle the whole political system even in those countries that already have many of those things, then I'll have to remain on the fence or look to support an organization that includes those aspects without the politics. 

Unregulated capitalism always stratifies a society with intense competition, making winners and losers where those at the bottom (disproportionately minorities) are treating unjustly.  There always needs to be something to mitigate unbridled capitalism to prevent this cruelty.  So yes, capitalism in its pure form without mitigation does need to be dismantled or changed to create a more just society.

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unregulated capitalism always stratifies a society with intense competition, making winners and losers where those at the bottom (disproportionately minorities) are treating unjustly.  There always needs to be something to mitigate unbridled capitalism to prevent this cruelty.  So yes, capitalism in its pure form without mitigation does need to be dismantled or changed to create a more just society.

I'm not so sure Luna that the problem is Capitalism.  Democrats have wanted this flood of immigrants into this country and many people say it's because the Democrats want voters and that the Dems are "buying votes" by having this huge influx of immigrants.  I cannot say I agree with this in toto but it is partly true.   I think there is no denying that.  

I think the large influx of immigrants has shoved the Black Americans towards the back.  The programs and the money should go to Americans first.  It is our money.   Programs for American's first, immigrants wait in line.  This IS American's money.   Not to mention the rich wants the immigrants here because they will work without perks, health care, etc.  

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4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:
10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unregulated capitalism always stratifies a society with intense competition, making winners and losers where those at the bottom (disproportionately minorities) are treating unjustly.  There always needs to be something to mitigate unbridled capitalism to prevent this cruelty.  So yes, capitalism in its pure form without mitigation does need to be dismantled or changed to create a more just society.

I'm not so sure Luna that the problem is Capitalism.  Democrats have wanted this flood of immigrants into this country and many people say it's because the Democrats want voters and that the Dems are "buying votes" by having this huge influx of immigrants.  I cannot say I agree with this in toto but it is partly true.   I think there is no denying that.  

I think the large influx of immigrants has shoved the Black Americans towards the back.  The programs and the money should go to Americans first.  It is our money.   Programs for American's first, immigrants wait in line.  This IS American's money.  

Unregulated capitalism by its very nature accrues wealth to the top layers of society.  It could be black, white or pink polka-dotted people at the bottom layers -- capitalism doesn't choose the skin colors at the bottom. Circumstances and society chooses, and it has been much easier for Whites in the US to put POC at the bottom so they don't have to be.

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4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

As a bit of a fence sitter on the whole BLM agenda,

Black Lives Matter isn't an agenda, it's a statement and you either support that statement, or you don't and we have a word for that.

Hiding behind opposition to the political views of those who most vocally support that statement, does not provide a safe way to oppose it.

I am done with letting that slide, it is quite literally the very least I can do.

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43 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unregulated capitalism by its very nature accrues wealth to the top layers of society.  It could be black, white or pink polka-dotted people at the bottom layers -- capitalism doesn't choose the skin colors at the bottom. Circumstances and society chooses, and it has been much easier for Whites in the US to put POC at the bottom so they don't have to be.

Well, I disagree.  This huge influx of immigrants that the Democrats wanted comes with no plan of how are we going to get the money to take care of all these people?  So programs are set up for the immigrants while Americans are ignored.  It's surely been a problem in California.  There is no more money to take in any more immigrants.  We need to take care of Americans with American's money, as it's our money.   

Mexico is not war torn.  My grand-parents immigrated to America during World War I in 1917.  

As soon as many Hispanics got here just about, they all had cell phones.  My ex and I used to remark on it while waiting in a waiting room to see the doctor.  All had cell phones.  We couldn't believe it because at the time, we didn't have cell phones yet.  We were saying to each other, "how can they afford cell phones?"  They were quite expensive at the time.  The waiting rooms for doctors appointments and other appointments are full of Hispanics here in Los Angeles but you don't think American's got shoved to the back for programs of their own money mind you, while instead the Blacks and Hispanics make gang wars against each other?  

There are very real problems here but it's not Capitalism, it's corruption and exploitation of human beings on both sides of the border because many Hispanics want to work here for awhile and then take exchange their dollars for pesos which is a whole lotta money once changed into pesos.  But, the world plays dumb, such as "oh, that's racist".  No, it isn't.  It's American's money.  

I will share with you something else.  The Democrats are liberal on foreign spending but conservative on domestic spending whilst the Republicans are conservative on foreign spending but liberal on domestic spending.  The CARES Act spear-headed by Nancy Pelosi was crumbs.  Democrats are conservative on domestic spending.  Democrats want to spend on foreign matters.  It's the reverse for Republicans.  

As far as spending, I agree with the Republicans on this issue because it is our money.  

Oh, and to give Toyla a plug here, he's right.  The Republicans have done more for the Black communities because they are liberal on domestic spending.  Toyla is not making that up.   If Trump had to cut foreign programs so money could go to help Americans, so what.  This is our money.   This is why I agree with Republicans because of the spending situation.  I don't know if I want another liberal spending a bunch of money on foreign matters especially with a Great Depression in America looming.

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15 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Black Lives Matter isn't an agenda

Then why does it have a gofundme with a listed set of agendas?

16 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Hiding behind opposition to the political views of those who most vocally support that statement, does not provide a safe way to oppose it.

I think it's fair to assess this statement as essentially "Support what I say, or else you are a racist, and you are not safe!". To repeat myself earlier, on 'silence is violence':

On 6/9/2020 at 7:59 PM, Extrude Ragu said:

I am very weary of any person or group that uses this kind of language to suggest incriminating those who are not part of their movement and do not adopt or actively echo the ideology given to them. It is a trait of totalitarians, extremists etc and history shows that it usually ends very ugly.

21 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I think there are definitely people out there who would pick up on a rhetoric like this and use it for bad purposes.

I think whether intentionally or not, you may be proving my point to those who are silently sitting on the fence observing.

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45 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

The American people have long used the excuse that they NEED their millions of guns in case they need to stop an "opressive and tyrannical Government"! ......So where are they all today?

All this says is that you do not understand the reality of living in the US. 

The American people have NOT used that excuse. A large group of idiots have used that excuse while another large group of perfectly sane people have pointed out their idiocy. 

There are 66.6 million people in the UK. There are 328.2 million in the US. 

Have you been here before? Can you comprehend the size of this country? The thousands of miles that separate states? There are a lot of us, and we have a lot of different ideas and opinions. Coming to a consensus on anything isn't possible. 

The American people you speak of are not me, nor are they anyone I know. 

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Further to the question on whether or not Black Lives Matter is an agenda. The official BLM website states

Quote

#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada

Indicating that yes, this is a registered organization that does have it's own politics.

In the organization's defense, nowhere on this page does it bring up capitalism.

I had a browse through their blog however, and found this blog post:-

Quote

This season we are calling for a boycott of White capitalism and #BuildBlackCommunity. This means no spending with White corporations 11/24/2017-1/1/2018! They are encouraging everyone to #CurbYourConsumerism for the holidays.

This would seem to me to say they take a stance against consumerism (aka capitalism). But especially want to punish white business owners?

 

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1 minute ago, Extrude Ragu said:

But especially want to punish white business owners?

   But, but-- Isn't that-- Racial prejudice? Gasps. 

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55 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

As soon as many Hispanics got here just about, they all had cell phones.  My ex and I used to remark on it while waiting in a waiting room to see the doctor.  All had cell phones.  We couldn't believe it because at the time, we didn't have cell phones yet.  We were saying to each other, "how can they afford cell phones?"  They were quite expensive at the time.  The waiting rooms for doctors appointments and other appointments are full of Hispanics here in Los Angeles but you don't think American's got shoved to the back for programs of their own money mind you, while instead the Blacks and Hispanics make gang wars against each other?  

OMG nooooooo....cell phones?  I bet you saw those wealthy Mexicans eat an expensive burger at lunch instead of cheap beans and tortillas too!

But seriously, during the time period you described many other countries had cell phones when the US did not. And the cell phones were inexpensive. Many of those countries lacked the infrastructure of land lines we had in the US, and so cell phones were the cheaper alternative. I don't know for a fact this was the case with Mexico, but I know it was true for many other countries. And I hope you weren't offended if you spotted a Hispanic wearing jeans that didn't come from the Salvation Army as well.

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56 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Unregulated capitalism by its very nature accrues wealth to the top layers of society.  It could be black, white or pink polka-dotted people at the bottom layers -- capitalism doesn't choose the skin colors at the bottom. Circumstances and society chooses, and it has been much easier for Whites in the US to put POC at the bottom so they don't have to be.

Well, I disagree.  This huge influx of immigrants that the Democrats wanted comes with no plan of how are we going to get the money to take care of all these people?  So programs are set up for the immigrants while Americans are ignored.  It's surely been a problem in California.  There is no more money to take in any more immigrants.  We need to take care of Americans with American's money, as it's our money.   

Mexico is not war torn.  My grand-parents immigrated to America during World War I in 1917.  

As soon as many Hispanics got here just about, they all had cell phones.  My ex and I used to remark on it while waiting in a waiting room to see the doctor.  All had cell phones.  We couldn't believe it because at the time, we didn't have cell phones yet.  We were saying to each other, "how can they afford cell phones?"  They were quite expensive at the time.  The waiting rooms for doctors appointments and other appointments are full of Hispanics here in Los Angeles but you don't think American's got shoved to the back for programs of their own money mind you, while instead the Blacks and Hispanics make gang wars against each other?  

There are very real problems here but it's not Capitalism, it's corruption and exploitation of human beings on both sides of the border because many Hispanics want to work here for awhile and then take exchange their dollars for pesos which is a whole lotta money once changed into pesos.  But, the world plays dumb, such as "oh, that's racist".  No, it isn't.  It's American's money.  

I will share with you something else.  The Democrats are liberal on foreign spending but conservative on domestic spending whilst the Republicans are conservative on foreign spending but liberal on domestic spending.  The CARES Act spear-headed by Nancy Pelosi was crumbs.  Democrats are conservative on domestic spending.  Democrats want to spend on foreign matters.  It's the reverse for Republicans.  

As far as spending, I agree with the Republicans on this issue because it is our money.  

Oh, and to give Toyla a plug here, he's right.  The Republicans have done more for the Black communities because they are liberal on domestic spending.  Toyla is not making that up.   If Trump had to cut foreign programs so money could go to help Americans, so what.  This is our money.   This is why I agree with Republicans because of the spending situation.  I don't know if I want another liberal spending a bunch of money on foreign matters especially with a Great Depression in America looming.

Corporations feel fine about letting Mexicans enter the country when it benefits their agenda, and they want them to leave when there are better ways for them to make a profit off them (as labor for corporations in Mexico).  It's capitalism all the way.  So wonderful that you are believing Trumpies rhetoric designed to energize his base for re-election, claiming the big bad darkies are trying to take over our country or steal from the deserving. And they have CELL PHONES OMG.
This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue -- the issue is corporations that want to use Hispanics for their agenda, and use political wars to their ends.
 
Fact...more Mexicans are leaving this country than entering. Maybe the WALL is really an attempt to keep them in because there weren't enough migrants to pick our produce.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/

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9 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:
Quote

This season we are calling for a boycott of White capitalism and #BuildBlackCommunity. This means no spending with White corporations 11/24/2017-1/1/2018! They are encouraging everyone to #CurbYourConsumerism for the holidays.

This would seem to me to say they take a stance against consumerism (aka capitalism). But especially want to punish white business owners?

No, they don't want to punish (wouldn't blame them if they wanted to though after all the abuse Whites have levied against them) -- they want the money to go to the Black community to build it up -- #BuildBlackCommunity

Oppressed groups seek to become strong. Sorry if this is so foreign and gobsmacking for you.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

OMG nooooooo....cell phones?  I bet you saw those wealthy Mexicans eat an expensive burger at lunch instead of cheap beans and tortillas too!

But seriously, during the time period you described many other countries had cell phones when the US did not. And the cell phones were inexpensive. Many of those countries lacked the infrastructure of land lines we had in the US, and so cell phones were the cheaper alternative. I don't know for a fact this was the case with Mexico, but I know it was true for many other countries. And I hope you weren't offended if you spotted a Hispanic wearing jeans that didn't come from the Salvation Army as well.

LOL.  You know me better than that.  I'm using that to show you there was a lot of money spent on Hispanics here, Luna, and it was coming from Democrats.   However, I liked jeans from the Salvation Army.  Well, my business was antiques and collectibles so I love thrift stores and yard sales especialy. 

But to understand how expensive cell phones were at the time and with a waiting room full of 90% Hispanics, you'd have to live here.  

But, yes, both sides of the border have been exploited.  

However, we cannot afford the immigration levels that Democrats want.  It is our money.  American's money.

If you don't see your pattern of when you said Trump is shutting down all those foreign programs, which ever ones you were speaking of in other threads, as a pattern of Republicans being conservative on foreign spending I dunno what to do.  But, I want American's money to be spent on American's and especially with a Depression looming; on spending issues, I tend to agree with the Republicans as I want to be conservative on foreign spending going forth and liberal on spending on the people here.  As again, it's American's money.  On other issues, I am split currently.  

Whomever gets into office either way it's going to be a very bumpy flight for all of us as I don't know who has the knowledge to navigate us out of a Great Depression.  It's all going to be a wait and see after the dust settles.  

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6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

If you don't see your pattern of when you said Trump is shutting down all those foreign programs, which ever ones you were speaking of in other threads, as a pattern of Republicans being conservative on foreign spending I dunno what to do.

Oh you mean the ones that could prevent further pandemics if operated in a responsible manner, like WHO?

It may appear that Democrats want all the spending, but when Republicans are in power they simply divide the purse so their agenda is furthered.  So really, all of this is beyond a battle between the polarized parties.  The battle is where the wealth of our society goes, and how it effects those who are forced to live on the bottom levels and suffer. And the bottom level, to stay on topic here, is more often a POC.  However, poor Whites are quickly approaching those levels.  YAY America! 

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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Corporations feel fine about letting Mexicans enter the country when it benefits their agenda, and they want them to leave when there are better ways for them to make a profit off them (as labor for corporations in Mexico).  It's capitalism all the way.  So wonderful that you are believing Trumpies rhetoric designed to energize his base for re-election, claiming the big bad darkies are trying to take over our country or steal from the deserving. And they have CELL PHONES OMG.
This is not a Democrat vs Republican issue -- the issue is corporations that want to use Hispanics for their agenda, and use political wars to their ends.
 
Fact...more Mexicans are leaving this country than entering. Maybe the WALL is really an attempt to keep them in because there weren't enough migrants to pick our produce.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/

It's partly business but it was politicians buying votes too.  If you deny that, it is denying the truth.  Not to mention politicians have "business interests", they all do.  It shouldn't be that shocking.  

These are not migrant workers I'm speaking of.  These are immigrants with lots and lots of tax payer programs for the needy but they buy cell phones?   Then, a cell phone was not "needy", it was a huge luxury.  The year was about the year 2000, trying to remember my ex and I at that time.

This is another issue I agree with the Republicans on - immigration.  It's American's money.  I want the money to be spent on us.  

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I am so god damn sick white Europeans from tiny little countries with their own racial inequities trying to tell us how we’re so screwed up (WE KNOW) when they can’t even fix their own messes that I’m becoming prejudiced against white Europeans from tiny little countries with their own racial inequities who can’t even fix their own messes.

 

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