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1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

It's partly business but it was politicians buying votes too.  If you deny that, it is denying the truth.  Not to mention politicians have "business interests", they all do.  It shouldn't be that shocking.  

These are not migrant workers I'm speaking of.  These are immigrants with lots and lots of tax payer programs for the needy but they buy cell phones?   Then, a cell phone was not "needy", it was a huge luxury.  The year was about the year 2000, trying to remember my ex and I at that time.

This is another issue I agree with the Republicans on - immigration.  It's American's money.  I want the money to be spent on us.  

I don't deny political realities regarding getting re-elected, but they are in bed with big business and doing their bidding. The large corporations are controlling us, and using politicians to achieve their ends.

Why do you believe all these Hispanics are going to take our money?  How are they going to do this?  Maybe instead they'll work in the fields and pay taxes.  This is just an excuse Republicans are using to get us to fear the brown people.

 

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Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.

Alrighty, now that I've gone ahead and cleared out some not so pleasant posts from this thread I wanted to drop a quick note here. As many of you have seen me say several times before, delving in

Thank you for this.   Black woman here.  Of A Certain Age.  I have my BLM shirt.   For whatever that means. (freewheeling it here, went from wanting to say something to not wanting to say anythi

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7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, it's been said America has been pushed to the brink of a Third World Country.  

But, frankly, we have to take care of American's with American's money.  It's the right thing to do.  

I say no to this crazed immigration via the Dems.  Immigration needs reform badly.

And "America" does take care of itself...the American corporations abuse Mexicans with slave labor to make a nice profit. Unless these same corporations can make more when hiring them for the fields in America.

This "it's America's money" is just a right-wing talking point.

What kind of "America's Money" are you even talking about? Do you mean those who need social services like welfare?

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8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

This is another issue I agree with the Republicans on - immigration.  It's American's money.  I want the money to be spent on us.  

I have enough. If another human being needs some of what I have REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY WERE BORN, I want to help them. I don’t give a single crap about some arbitrary border or hateful nationalism. People are people. This planet has enough resources to take care of all the people. A line on a map shouldn’t be a qualifier as to whether another human being gets food and clean water.

It never fails to disgust me how humans can be so inhumane, and proud of it.

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't deny political realities regarding getting re-elected, but they are in bed with big business and doing their bidding. The large corporations are controlling us, and using politicians to achieve their ends.

Why do you believe all these Hispanics are going to take our money?  How are they going to do this?  Maybe instead they'll work in the fields and pay taxes.  This is just an excuse Republicans are using to get us to fear the brown people.

 

Luna, it's very, very expensive to take care of all these immigrants and they all mostly have Medi-cal.   Are you paying for Medi-Cal?   Medi-Cal and other programs here in California are paid for by Californians.  

No, it's not an excuse because I've never been Republican before but I lived in Southern California all of my life.  All of my life.

If you want to go off on your tangent about Brown people, they do so alone.    

If you cannot see the monies belong to American's...i dunno what to say.  

As far as immigration, I also agree with Republicans.

Spending and immigration are the two issues I agree with Republicans on because I am liberal on domestic spending in that I believe if it's people's money, it should be spent on them...that's what they are working for.  

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7 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

It's not race or greed causing it. It's law, that the police unions pushed for. Qualified immunity. A law that says government officials, including police, are not personally responsible for their actions. It says, almost literally, that you can get away with murder if you work for the government.

picking up on this

another essay

qualified immunity is not a law as such. Is a legal doctrine established by the US Supreme Court in Harlow v Fitzgerald 1981. Harlow was a government official (a presidential aide to President Nixon). Fitzgerald was a supply contractor to the government. Fitzgerald sued Harlow for an action by Harlow that resulted in Fitzgerald not getting a supply contract

the operative part of the ruling is:

"Henceforth, government officials performing discretionary functions generally are shielded from liability for civil damages insofar as their conduct does not violate "clearly established" statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known."

text is here:

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/ll/usrep/usrep457/usrep457800/usrep457800.pdf


to date the Supreme Court in subsequent rulings has only "clearly established" 4th, 5th and 8th Amendment constitutional violations by government officials

up until 1871 in the USA, common law allowed anyone in the USA to bring a criminal prosecution against anyone else. This common law right still applies in Britain, New Zealand where I live, and some other countries based on common law.

there was such a case a few years ago in New Zealand. The Crown Prosecutor declined to prosecute a police officer for murder. The family of the killed person, at their own expense, engaged a lawyer who criminally prosecuted the police officer. It went to court. The judge ruled that the police officer had a case to answer. It went to trial. The trial jury decided the police officer was not guilty. The family of the killed person, while not happy with the verdict, said they were pleased that justice had been seen to be done

this common law right in the USA to criminally prosecute was removed by the US Supreme Court in Blyew v United States 1871. An oral argument came down to who is The People.  In a republic, criminal court charges are brought by The People. The Supreme Court ruled that a US Constitutionally-appointed prosecutor is The People in the US Republic grand jury criminal court system

the difference is that Britain, New Zealand, etc are constitutional monarchies. The Prosecutor represents the Crown. The Crown v The Alleged Criminal. The Crown is not The People, the people are themselves individually and severally in constitutional monarchies  


the sticking point today in the USA is that many prosecutors now apply the Harlow v Fitzgerald civil test when deciding whether to lay criminal charges against police officers

when The People (the prosecutor) declines to prosecute then the citizens individually and severally, can't bring a criminal prosecution themselves. Nor can they bring a civil lawsuit against the officer except under the 4th, 5th and 8th Amendment, as some previous violations of these amendments have been "clearly established" by the US Supreme Court. Every other amendment and the body of the Constitution itself has not yet been clearly established by the US Supreme Court for these types of cases, according to the doctrine. A doctrine which the US Supreme Court is the sole arbiter of

so the only recourse beyond this for US citizens today, is to civilly sue the police officers employer if justice is to be seen to be done in the eyes of the victim and/or their family

while the extinguishing of common law, might be debatable today. The 1871 case was about the murder of some black people by two white people. The only witnesses to the murders were black people. Blyew (one of the murderers) appealed because the Kentucky State law at that time said that black people could only bear witness against other black people, not against white people. Ergo no witnesses then no evidence that he done it

the US Supreme Court ruled that black people, being citizens under the US Constitution, could bear witness against any other citizen including white people. And also ruled that the 1866 US federal law overrides state law, and that US federal law gives the role of The People to US constitutionally-appointed prosecutors

a thing that exercised the thoughts of the Supreme Court justices at the time about the existing common law right to criminally prosecute, was that if they had not established what The People was, then it would have opened up black people to being privately criminally prosecuted for the Crime Of Being Black. And like a lot of Supreme Court decisions, by upholding the 1866 federal law, the common law right was extinguished without the Court having to actually say so 

 

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17 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, it's been said America has been pushed to the brink of a Third World Country.  

But, frankly, we have to take care of American's with American's money.  It's the right thing to do.  

I say no to this crazed immigration via the Dems.  Immigration needs reform badly.  

Oh, but no, not speaking of The Who here but others you mentioned.  I agree with Trump in regards to The Who due to the Who director f***up and did not issue a lockdown in Wuhan when he should have.  I do not blame China.  I blame the director of The Who.  

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me. - Matthew 25:35

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3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Luna, it's very, very expensive to take care of all these immigrants and they all mostly have Medi-cal.   Are you paying for Medi-Cal?   Medi-Cal and other programs here in California are paid for by Californians.  

If they are here legally, why shouldn't they have health care like all other people?

And like I said before, we have more Mexicans returning to Mexico than we do Mexicans entering the US.  So how are your worries valid as we are not in danger of Mexicans taking all the money that is for Americans are we?

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25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If they are here legally, why shouldn't they have health care like all other people?

And like I said before, we have more Mexicans returning to Mexico than we do Mexicans entering the US.  So how are your worries valid as we are not in danger of Mexicans taking all the money that is for Americans are we?

Other people don't even have health care.  My nephew and niece both 3rd Generation American born don't have health care, none, zero, zip.  

About the only job you can get with health care now is mostly a nurse and some other government jobs in California.  California has been pushed to the brink.  

American's don't have health care in California except those in hospital or government jobs such as school teachers, etc.   

And, if they are returning now, some of the programs in California had to be cut.  There is no more money...it's said our systems are drained or depleted.  It is said California's systems are depleted.  

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35 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I have enough. If another human being needs some of what I have REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY WERE BORN, I want to help them. I don’t give a single crap about some arbitrary border or hateful nationalism. People are people. This planet has enough resources to take care of all the people. A line on a map shouldn’t be a qualifier as to whether another human being gets food and clean water.

It never fails to disgust me how humans can be so inhumane, and proud of it.

The only thing I disagree with is regarding resources. There are not enough to sustain the way humans live currently. There is far, far, far too much waste. Look up how many tons of food WalMart throws out on a daily basis. Much of it doesn't need to be thrown out. If people would put refrigerated items back into refrigeration, stores like WalMart wouldn't have to throw out tons of meat and other foods that require refrigeration. Anything that isn't put back properly by the customer is thrown out regardless of whether it's been out 5 seconds or 5 hours.

It will never happen. Everything is disposable, including people.

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

I have enough. If another human being needs some of what I have REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY WERE BORN, I want to help them. I don’t give a single crap about some arbitrary border or hateful nationalism. People are people. This planet has enough resources to take care of all the people. A line on a map shouldn’t be a qualifier as to whether another human being gets food and clean water.

It never fails to disgust me how humans can be so inhumane, and proud of it.

Beth, I think you are too quick to judge unless you can pay all the bills yourself.  California's systems are depleted.  Most Californians don't have health insurance at all.  Low income groups including seniors do and high end groups do plus those who can afford their own and/or work in government jobs.  Plus, a few scare ones here and there.

California, since it's systems are depleted, had decided to send more jobs to Mexico.  California currently trades with Mexico as well more than it ever has before and especially that of food items.  We import so much food from Mexico into California now that there are Hispanic supermarkets just about everywhere.  Plus, even our local convenience stores and "Drug Store" like CVS have special sections just for imported products from Mexico along with a wide variety of items one can purchase from Mexico.   The majority of imported South American items come from Mexico, though there are other products here and there.

At the San Diego border, Southern California imports a lot of fresh produce from Mexico as well. 

It was the best that could be done until such systems can be repleted if at all, as I don't know with the current pandemic and economy crises that loom upon the horizon what the economy and job situation will be like post Covid-19.   

Plus, we need to get Californian's and American's health care first.  It just isn't right to leave American's in this condition either.

My niece cannot get married to her babie's Father at this time because neither of their jobs have health care.   My niece trained to be a Certified Nursing Assistant but let her license lapse as the cost to pay the student loans was a tremendous up-keep for her, so she became a bar-tender with a good job.  So, if she gets her nurse's license back, she will have health care.  But, meanwhile, she has to get assistance from the government for un-wed mothers in order to have health care for her baby and cannot get married until she gets a job with health care but it's an uphill struggle as her baby is only 1-year-old.  Both my niece and her husband to be (bf) are looking for jobs with health care.  There aren't many jobs with health care that is for sure.  

If you think what I am saying is mean.  So be it.  I want to see American's have health care and jobs.  Make me horrible for that.  

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1 minute ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I want to see everyone have health care and jobs. 

That is the ultimate but that could mean UBI and health care, not jobs, or a balance of the two.  I just don't know at this time.   Housing and other systems need to be built first.  

Mexico has laid cable all throughout Mexico.  It is now becoming an emerging country but needs to emerge further.  Much about it has been discussed; they are not forgotten.  But, remember, many people in South America want to stay in their home.  It is their home; so let's emerge it perhaps with more jobs.  

It's all a network.  

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5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

....

California has the worlds 5th biggest economy and is larger than the UK and France. It's pushing double the size of Russia.

California hasn't been pushed to the brink, it's being plundered by those at the top.

 

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3 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Have you been here before? Can you comprehend the size of this country? The thousands of miles that separate states?

I've been there a couple of times but only briefly as a Royal Marine when we used to do joint exercises with your Navy Seals at the special warfare training center, Coronado CA. They didn't let us out much for some reason lol, so no, I've never really grasped the immensity of the US personally. It's like the old adage goes..."Englishmen think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time"!   

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On 6/9/2020 at 1:09 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

yeah i wonder how thatcomes ...oh wait... intollerance for other opinions,... where  did that happen too?..Think about that.

From everything I've observed, you're WAAAAY more intolerant of other opinions than the people you accuse of being intolerant. Now I get it, you obviously don't think my claim is true...you clearly see yourself as some sort of champion of individuality and free speech. Except you're not. At all. From everything I've observed, you're a toxic bully who wants to tell everyone else what to think. So how about you shut up, take a long hard look in the mirror, and stop playing the intolerance/victim card?

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2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I am so god damn sick white Europeans from tiny little countries with their own racial inequities trying to tell us how we’re so screwed up (WE KNOW) when they can’t even fix their own messes that I’m becoming prejudiced against white Europeans from tiny little countries with their own racial inequities who can’t even fix their own messes.

 

Think we gave up trying to fix our own racial messes in 1945 when we discovered what another tiny (compared to yours), white European Country had tried as a "solution"! 

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32 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

California has the worlds 5th biggest economy and is larger than the UK and France. It's pushing double the size of Russia.

California hasn't been pushed to the brink, it's being plundered by those at the top.

 

I know how big California's GDP is.  That doesn't mean we have endless resources, water, housing, farmland, because we don't.  We had a 10-year drought too which just ended last year.  I guess you knew that too?  Right and you repleted the empty dams and aqueducts yourself which Californian's couldn't even do.  That's amazing.  

California may exceed Germany's GDP too...and...soooooooooo....we....can....take....in....how many?  You know, I'm gathering.  Write the Governor and tell him.  

Meanwhile, I want to see American's have health care and jobs and not have jobs imported and exported to death because we matter too, and, frankly, I don't give a dam what you think in your imagination.  

Well, wasn't quite ten years...but I still don't give a dam what you think in your imagination.  

The 2011-2017 California drought was a persistent drought from the period of December 2011 to March 2017, and is one of the most intense droughts in California history,[1] with the period of late 2011 through 2014 being the driest in California history.[2] The drought killed 102 million trees from 2011 to 2016, with 62 million killed in 2016 alone.[3] The cause of the drought is attributed to a ridge of high pressure in the Pacific Sea — the "Ridiculously Resilient Ridge" — which often barred powerful winter storms from reaching the state.[4][5]

By February 2017, the state drought percentage returned to levels below that of late 2011, mainly due to a very wet pattern caused by atmospheric river-enhanced Pacific storms.[6] The wet pattern caused severe flooding.

In mid-March 2019, California was declared totally drought-free, with the exception of a small pocket of "abnormally dry" conditions in Southern California, following a series of powerful Pacific storms during the first few months of the year.[7] This coincided with the U.S. experiencing drought conditions in the fewest parts of the country since 2000.[8]

Edited by FairreLilette
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48 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Think we gave up trying to fix our own racial messes in 1945 when we discovered what another tiny (compared to yours), white European Country had tried as a "solution"! 

Is this a riddle?  :/

There are slums in England - Jaywick and Blackpool I've heard of.  As far as racial messes in England, there have been reports on the telly, or is it spelled 'tellie'.

But, how about people who think California has endless resources - such as oh housing, water, sewage systems, farmland, cows, schools, well a long list is necessary to provide for the population of immigrants the Democrats were wanting.  Will Dems also discuss rationally that immigrants are given health care while American citizens have none?   I wonder just how many people are willing to give up their job to an immigrant?   

This does not make me Republican but I think they are a lot saner than people realize and I do agree with some of their ideology.  Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican president.  

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14 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Is this a riddle?  :/

I think he means the bottom guy, and what you are advocating for in this recent thread turn is the top guy, and they are oh so similar:

 

trump hitler.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think he means the bottom guy, and what you are advocating for in this recent thread turn is the top guy, and they are oh so similar:

 

trump hitler.jpg

What am I advocating for, such as?   Jobs and health care for American citizens rather than jobs and health care for people of another country?   Look, if you want to give up all your familie's jobs and health care and give them to another person from another country, write the Governor of the State of California and tell him you are willing to do that regarding your familie's jobs and health care.  

Uh, Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican President.  

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2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

What am I advocating for, such as?   Jobs and health for American citizens rather than jobs and health care for people of another country?   Look, if you want to give up all your familie's jobs and health care and give them to another person from another country, write the Governor of the State of California and tell him you are willing to do that regarding your familie's jobs and health care.  

Uh, Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican President. 

Advocating for the removal of Mexicans, as if that's the solution to the economic problems. This is called scapegoating and is very dangerous.  Removing Mexicans will not solve our economic problems.  

People like Trump want to divide us, make us think we are at war with each other, and that the 'other' is the source of our problems. Then we fight with each other and don't see what the real issues are.

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33 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Will Dems also discuss rationally that immigrants are given health care while American citizens have none?

i just point out that only refugees coming in under the auspices of the US Office of Refugee  Resettlement get healthcare as part of the resettlement assistance process

the resettlement assistance program runs for 8 months. After this the refugees are on their own.  Immigrants who are not refugees are on their own from the day they arrive

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