Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Beth Macbain]

47 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I am very weary of any person or group that uses this kind of language to suggest incriminating those who are not part of their movement and do not adopt or actively echo the ideology given to them.

Yes, you've made it clear that you don't support this movement.

47 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

There has been talk of people attempting to rewrite history recently, changing street names, removing statues, literature etc.

There isn't a single statue of Hitler, or any other Nazis, in Germany, but have Germans forgotten the Holocaust? 

No one is attempting to rewrite history. Removing statues commemorating the lives of slave owners isn't removing those slave owners from history. Changing a street name from something like Robert E. Lee Avenue to Frederick Douglass Street isn't going to remove the history of anything. Most of those streets were named during the Jim Crow era. No one is talking about rewriting any literature other than history and text books to accurately represent history rather than the white-washing that has always been done. No one is attempting to remove truth - they're advocating for including it.

I live in the southern United States. My city just this week removed a statue of a Confederate soldier, and big fat ugly racist. He got a statue because he donated a bunch of land for city parks. He steadfastly refused to allow those parks to be segregated integrated, though. As a matter of fact, they weren't segregated integrated until 6 years after he died. His name will still be in history books. He does not deserve to be commemorated by a gargantuan statue. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Beth Macbain
TOTALLY messed up a big word - Thanks, Sylvia for the head's up!

[FairreLilette]

11 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

First you have to realize "Defund the Police" doesn't necessarily mean stop paying for police or disband the police and realize the police in the US have a huge burden placed on them as far as their role in inner cities. They are called upon to do jobs, they aren't qualified or trained for on a daily basis. In some cases it does work and has already happened. What I was trying to point out yesterday was the US spends far more on the military and police than other "rich" countries do and its not working. Why not spend the money on social services or something more productive to communites?

https://mynorthwest.com/1928786/protesters-call-defund-the-police/

It's happened in Camden, NJ

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html

I agree wholeheartedly.  The money is better spent on the betterment of the people.  

However, both Trump and Biden have said no to defunding, so I'm not sure what those articles meant then by both Trump and Biden saying no to defunding, although Biden's proposal are over-whelmingly favored by the electorates.   We all do need to patient here until more information is made clear as our world is changing so fast in these last few months.  

However, the City of Los Angeles including all council members and the city Mayor have already allocated 100 to 150 millions towards programs instead of funding police from now and through the fiscal year of 2021.   So, it is already happening.  

Edited June 9, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Nadia Chatterbox]

27 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

- Quote from "Toolkit for White People"

I am very weary of any person or group that uses this kind of language to suggest incriminating those who are not part of their movement and do not adopt or actively echo the ideology given to them. It is a trait of totalitarians, extremists etc and history shows that it usually ends very ugly.

In the free world, people choose to support a movement because they both believe it has merit and they believe the way it is achieved is ultimately effective and not going to create more problems than it solves, not because they are told failing to support it is an act of violence.

There has been talk of people attempting to rewrite history recently, changing street names, removing statues, literature etc.

- George Orwell, 1984.

It's been rewritten, whitewashed & fabricated for a long time

[Innula Zenovka]

32 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

- Quote from "Toolkit for White People"

I am very weary of any person or group that uses this kind of language to suggest incriminating those who are not part of their movement and do not adopt or actively echo the ideology given to them. It is a trait of totalitarians, extremists etc and history shows that it usually ends very ugly.

In the free world, people choose to support a movement because they both believe it has merit and they believe the way it is achieved is ultimately effective and not going to create more problems than it solves, not because they are told failing to support it is an act of violence.

There has been talk of people attempting to rewrite history recently, changing street names, removing statues, literature etc.

- George Orwell, 1984.

Let's look at those three words that so "weary" you, "silence is violence," in context.

Quote

Five years ago today, a teenage boy went out for a snack but never made it home to his loving family. A grown man took it upon himself to patrol his neighborhood and to shoot dead an unarmed, unassuming boy. Not only did a mother have to bury her young son, but she now watches his killer walk the streets free— free to brag about killing Trayvon, and free to commit more acts of violence.

We need to #TalkAboutTrayvon because, five years later, there are still no consequences when adults wave their guns around at Black and Brown kids. Police continue to mistreat, terrorize, and even murder boys and girls of color, and then walk free. We need to #TalkAboutTrayvon, share pictures of his sweet face, and remind each other what we continue to lose when we uphold a system that won’t punish people who kill Black children and adults. We are not only losing wonderful people—we are losing our humanity.

White communities are used to consciously and unconsciously maintaining the racist policies and practices that led to Trayvon’s death—and, as white people, we must speak out against those policies and practices. When we remain silent and on the sidelines, we are complicit in maintaining these unjust systems. Our work is to get more white people who support us to take action toward racial justice—and to change the hearts and minds of those white people who are not yet with us.

When we #TalkAboutTrayvon, we tell grieving parents that we see them and acknowledge their pain. When we #TalkAboutTrayvon, we tell Black children that we are not afraid of them—we are only afraid they won’t get the bright future they deserve.

We need to #TalkAboutTrayvon, because white silence is violence. Use this toolkit to help spark conversation on Sunday, February 26, and beyond.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Toolkit-WhitePpl-Trayvon.pdf

How is that incriminating anyone who is not part of a movement or forcing them actively to echo anything?     What do you find objectionable about it?

Edited June 9, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Dano Seale]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Black's don't "owe" us thanks for that.

Wasn't aware I'd said they did?
 

 

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

No, we owe thanks for support and he has to see someone black thank white people for their support.

Same goes for you too. Show me where I said "I need to see a black person thank us whites"?  All I've said is I've not seen a black person mention if they even want white people with them or not! Still haven't. 
That's all my original query to Ashlyn was about.
 

[Janet Voxel]

1 minute ago, Dano Seale said:

Same goes for you too. Show me where I said "I need to see a black person thank us whites"?  All I've said is I've not seen a black person mention if they even want white people with them or not! Still haven't. 

 

lol

[lHorizonl]

Just now, Janet Voxel said:

lol

Bruh, "Still haven't' had me checking to make sure i am actually black for a quick second there but imma just leave what I said a day ago right here: 

"As a black female (and sorry but i just discovered this forum post so i only read the last few responses). A few things : 

NO it is never a bad thing for people who are not a POC to have these discussions. I enjoy the fact that these conversations are happening BUT i do believe the moment you enter these sorts of conversations on BOTH sides, you should come with an open mind. We all grew up from all sorts of different backgrounds, but the biggest problem that occurs with such a large group of people is we are quick to respond without actually listening & understanding. We as human beings allow our emotions to get the better of us. "

 

and just incase anyone doesn't know what POC means : Person of Color

[Janet Voxel]

1 minute ago, lHorizonl said:

Bruh, "Still haven't' had me checking to make sure i am actually black for a quick second there but imma just leave what I said a day ago right here: 

"As a black female (and sorry but i just discovered this forum post so i only read the last few responses). A few things : 

NO it is never a bad thing for people who are not a POC to have these discussions. I enjoy the fact that these conversations are happening BUT i do believe the moment you enter these sorts of conversations on BOTH sides, you should come with an open mind. We all grew up from all sorts of different backgrounds, but the biggest problem that occurs with such a large group of people is we are quick to respond without actually listening & understanding. We as human beings allow our emotions to get the better of us. "

 

and just incase anyone doesn't know what POC means : Person of Color

I told y'all...he doesn't really care about that.

[Dano Seale]

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm also curious why you put "Rev" in quotation marks in regards to Al Sharpton.

Think I put "Rev Al" because that's what everyone was using when mentioning him in his eulogy. I don't use the term "Reverend".

[Extrude Ragu]

26 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

How is that incriminating anyone who is not part of a movement or forcing them actively to echo anything?     What do you find objectionable about it?

A 'greater good' that is put forth, but at it's core, the message that the toolkit ultimately puts forth is 'white silence is violence' and even encourages it's readers to share that specific line.

I think such language promotes a 'guilty until innocent' mindset which is a violation of human rights. We have these civil protections to prevent tyranny.

Semi-related, here's a video I thought was amusing. It's very moving... until. Well, you'll get it if you get it

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Extrude Ragu

[Innula Zenovka]

Just now, Extrude Ragu said:

A 'greater good' that is put forth, but at it's core, the message that the toolkit ultimately puts forth is 'white silence is violence' and even encourages it's readers to share that specific line.

I think such language promotes a 'guilty until innocent' mindset which is a violation of human rights. We have these civil protections to prevent tyranny and scapegoating.

Semi-related, here's a video I thought was amusing. It's very moving... until. Well, you'll get it if you get it

You've lost me, you really have.

Do you mean you feel uncomfortable at the idea of discussing Trayvon Martin's death at the hands of George Zimmerman, and how it is that Zimmerman went unpunished?   Is that the problem?

Because to my mind it's a glaring injustice, and if it happened in my country I would be agitating like crazy to ensure people can go about their lawful business in peace without risking death at the hands of some self-appointed busybody who fancies himself as a local vigilante there to protect the neighbourhood from anyone who's the wrong colour.

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

A 'greater good' that is put forth, but at it's core, the message that the toolkit ultimately puts forth is 'white silence is violence' and even encourages it's readers to share that specific line.

I think such language promotes a 'guilty until innocent' mindset which is a violation of human rights. We have these civil protections to prevent tyranny.

If you see others being abused, yet stand by and do nothing, you ARE participating in violence. That is what is meant by "silence is violence".

Think of the many quotes expressing that all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing!??

Edited June 9, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Dano Seale]

17 minutes ago, lHorizonl said:

Bruh, "Still haven't' had me checking to make sure i am actually black for a quick second there but imma just leave what I said a day ago right here:

I'm supposed to count the overly sarcastic responses from Janet as sincerity? lol...Let me tell you from experience on here..."sarcasm" always gets taken badly!  😉
"imma just leave what I said 2 hours ago right here:
"Everytime I come in this thread there's 8+ pages since the last time, mostly packed with repetative crap from the same repetative people! I usually just click on the 2nd to last page and start from there....so yes, I probably did!"!

[Mollymews]

33 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Biden saying no to defunding

this article from ABCNews does a pretty good job of explaining Mr Biden's position as a candidate for US President. As a candidate he is not running on a platform of dismantling the institution of policing. He is running on a platform of reforming the institution of policing

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/joe-biden-rejects-calls-defund-police-faces-challenge/story?id=71135325

[Luna Bliss]

“Racism isn’t a black problem. It’s a white problem, and their silence is violence,” Steinwender said. “But it’ll take white people to call out other white people for real change. When black people speak their truth, we are called angry or accused of using the race card. We are looking for white people to speak out.”

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Speaking-up-against-racism-speaks-volumes-15319893.php

[Extrude Ragu]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you see others being abused, yet do nothing, you ARE participating in violence.

You are complicit, but you are not the one committing the violence. This distinction has a real legal purpose.

To be clear, I perfectly understand the concept that "bad happens when good people do nothing" and agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.

The issue I have is that it is wrong to put a 'guilty' label on people who do nothing. It is tyrannical in nature.

[FairreLilette]

7 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

this article from ABCNews does a pretty good job of explaining Mr Biden's position as a candidate for US President. As a candidate he is not running on a platform of dismantling the institution of policing. He is running on a platform of reforming the institution of policing

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/joe-biden-rejects-calls-defund-police-faces-challenge/story?id=71135325

Yes, I know.  That is what I said in my post.  No to defunding, yes to reform for both Biden and Trump.

So, I don't understand your post?  

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you see others being abused, yet do nothing, you ARE participating in violence.

You are complicit, but you are not the one committing the violence. This distinction has a real legal purpose.

To be clear, I perfectly understand the concept that "bad happens when good people do nothing" and agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.

The issue I have is that it is wrong to put a 'guilty' label on people who do nothing. It is tyrannical in nature.

You are guilty if you see people being harmed and choose to do nothing. Nothing tyrannical. Stop being pedantic, there's no need to make a legal distinction.  Standing by and doing nothing is a type of violence.

 

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

So, I don't understand your post?  

As of 2018, there were 686,665 full time law enforcement officers in the US. That doesn't include administration plus all their family members.

That's a lot of votes, and nearly every one of them will vote the way their police union tells them to. The police unions will never, ever throw their support behind a candidate that runs on a platform of defunding the police. Anything any candidate says isn't worth much until after they're elected and actually take some action.

[Janet Voxel]

12 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

I'm supposed to count the overly sarcastic responses from Janet as sincerity? lol...Let me tell you from experience on here..."sarcasm" always gets taken badly!  😉
"imma just leave what I said 2 hours ago right here:
"Everytime I come in this thread there's 8+ pages since the last time, mostly packed with repetative crap from the same repetative people! I usually just click on the 2nd to last page and start from there....so yes, I probably did!"!

 

[Mollymews]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't understand your post?  

sorry my bad

is just that you said that you said that you weren't sure what was meant by the articles Janet linked too. So I linked another one

[FairreLilette]

1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

sorry my bad

is just that you said that you said that you weren't sure what was meant by the articles Janet linked too. So I linked another one

No, Janet said something along the lines of whatever she said in regards to defunding but I had to eat lunch so I haven't read her article yet.  

You need to read Janet's article and quote from there too maybe?

Plus, my post was a preliminary in that neither Trump nor Biden approves nor will defund the Police as is being called for by some of the current protesters.  I did mention, however, they both agree to reform.  It's news that just broke yesterday but people can Google things themselves for further information as it's all just kind of "breaking news" and preliminary.  

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You are guilty if you see people being harmed and choose to do nothing. Nothing tyrannical. Stop being pedantic, there's no need to make a legal distinction.  Standing by and doing nothing is a type of violence.

Not to mention for some types of violence for certain people it is actually illegal to do nothing.

I'm classified as a mandatory reporter due to the nature of my job. If I see any signs of domestic violence or abuse, I can actually be charged if I do nothing. Many states also have Good Samaritan laws to protect people who do intervene when they see violence happening, and some states have started adopting Bad Samaritan laws that can actually punish people for not doing something. 

Regardless of any laws, if I see someone being hurt, and I do nothing to help them, how can I live with myself? I don't want to wake up and be the person who did nothing. 

[Selene Gregoire]

*sigh*

SNAFU

[Extrude Ragu]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You are guilty if you see people being harmed and choose to do nothing.

You are not. That's the law in most of the free world because that's what most of the free world agrees is morally right.

Yeah, it can definitely suck. I'd hate if nobody helped me during my time of need when I was being attacked, but at the same time it's not my right to anybody else's time words or actions, to expect that anybody would put themselves in danger for me etc.