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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Advocating for the removal of Mexicans, as if that's the solution to the economic problems. This is called scapegoating and is very dangerous.  Removing Mexicans will not solve our economic problems.  

People like Trump want to divide us, make us think we are at war with each other, and that the 'other' is the source of our problems. Then we fight with each other and don't see what the real issues are.

I never said remove...are you out of your mind!

As a matter of fact, I think all the ones here currently should be given immunity and citizenship if that is what they want.  

Where did you get remove?  That's insanity.  Are you feeling alright?

If you are thinking of when I said immigrants need to wait, that is not remove.  Immigrants would need to come in...coming in is not going out...so I don't understand your line of thinking.  However, we do need immigration reform as there are not endless resources here in a polyann-ish way of some Dems thinking.  

 

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Not as such, no. We don't really have that kind of thing here as, well, our law enforcement seldom gun down people - and whilst I obviously do not condone of it, I'm hesitant to give my 'official' (i.

Alrighty, now that I've gone ahead and cleared out some not so pleasant posts from this thread I wanted to drop a quick note here. As many of you have seen me say several times before, delving in

Thank you for this.   Black woman here.  Of A Certain Age.  I have my BLM shirt.   For whatever that means. (freewheeling it here, went from wanting to say something to not wanting to say anythi

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44 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Will Dems also discuss rationally that immigrants are given health care while American citizens have none?

I work with quite a few immigrants that have health care. A lot of them are CNAs. Blaming your sister’s issues on Mexicans is ludicrous especially considering it costs nothing to renew a CNA license in California. 

Don’t forget, I lived in LA. The jobs that many immigrants work are jobs that even the poorest white person thinks is beneath them. They work their asses off, and they deserve far more than they receive in about a billion ways.

If all the Mexicans in CA packed up and left, CA would be screwed. The state would shut down. California would cease to exist in any recognizable form. The state would lose billions in tax revenue because the fact is that most illegal immigrants pay taxes. Need proof? Read this.

Whats really ironic here is that the immigrants you’re complaining about are the ones paying the taxes that pay for your sister’s public benefits that she collects because she doesn’t have health insurance because she let her CNA license lapse for some reason other than the cost, since there isn’t one.

Your sister is living on the state’s dime courtesy of the taxes paid by the immigrants you despise.

So to answer your question about dems addressing immigrants with healthcare while some Americans go without, it’s because they work for the benefits they receive.

 

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10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I never said remove...are you out of your mind!

As a matter of fact, I think all the ones here currently should be given immunity and citizenship if that is what they want.  

Where did you get remove?  That's insanity.  Are you feeling alright?

If you are thinking of when I said immigrants need to wait, that is not remove.  Immigrants would need to come in...coming in is not going out...so I don't understand your line of thinking.  However, we do need immigration reform as there are not endless resources here in a polyann-ish way of some Dems thinking.  

Ok, well that sounds better.

But I think it's you who is thinking in a polyannish way via imagining the Hispanics in California are the reason your relatives and other Whites don't have health care. It's a kind of straw man argument - blaming the immigrants when other factors are really to blame.  Both groups could have health care if we focused on the real issue -- funneling too much money to the top and leaving public services underfunded. 

I also see you blaming the Democrats for imagining there are endless resources. There actually is money to fund social services more if we believed public services are vital as they do in other wealthy countries.

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5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

And not for nothing, but the Republican Party of Abe Lincoln is today’s Democratic Party. No way in hell could Lincoln be considered a republican today.

Yes there was a switch along the way, yet you hear conservatives mouth this all the time, wanting to claim Abe as their own..

https://ascienceenthusiast.com/democrats-republicans-party-switch/

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There is a donut-hole in healthcare insurance presently where a person can earn too little to qualify for health care insurance (ACA or ObamaCare), yet earn too much to qualify for Medicaid (a program for the poorest, and one must have few assets to qualify).

So we have an epidemic of the working poor who don't qualify for health care insurance.

Of course Trump wants to do away with the ACA entirely, throwing even more people off health insurance.

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes there was a switch along the way, yet you hear conservatives mouth this all the time, wanting to claim Abe as their own..

Well I’m from Kentucky and he’s ours, and we say he’s the absolute antithesis of a modern day Republican.

Pretty sure that’s carved on a plaque on a statue somewhere, and if it’s not I’ll add it to one. We are THICC with statues of Abe. 

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6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm not so sure Luna that the problem is Capitalism.  Democrats have wanted this flood of immigrants into this country and many people say it's because the Democrats want voters and that the Dems are "buying votes" by having this huge influx of immigrants.  I cannot say I agree with this in toto but it is partly true.   I think there is no denying that.  

I think the large influx of immigrants has shoved the Black Americans towards the back.  The programs and the money should go to Americans first.  It is our money.   Programs for American's first, immigrants wait in line.  This IS American's money.   Not to mention the rich wants the immigrants here because they will work without perks, health care, etc.  

I find this post quite troubling apologies.    

Let's use me as a test example.
British, now working in the the US.

I signed the book on the way in.

I pay Federal, State, City Taxes.  I pay for your social security, medicare and all that (and I am not eligible to claim those, nor unemployment).  In fact if I became unemployed I have days to pick up my home and move back out of the country.

I am one of those "huge" influx whom are paying for your benefits, infrastructure and schools etc.  I contribute more than the average American as a result as I am an Investor in the US.

I have not pushed anybody to the back as an Immigrant (technically non-immigrant status).  Instead, I am part of the immigrants in this country who do their upmost to work hard and contribute to the country I am a guest of.  Your "money" also comes from people like me, not just "Americans".  

Oh I also can't vote, so nobody brought mine.

No offense intended.

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@Beth Macbain you can prove this that my niece doesn't need to renew her CNA license in a monetary way or to pay for schooling?  I'd like to see that please.  

And every article I am reading on the internet says Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, the first Republican president.  It doesn't say anything about switching parties.  

I'm going to take a break because I do not despise immigrants as Beth Macbain with her typical hyperbole is going on about now.  

If you have lived in California, then you might be aware of how things have changed and yes by the Democrats.  It's talked about all of the time.  The Democrats wanted the votes.  

I think you all think Democrats walk like Jesus or something.  Trust me, they don't.  They are corrupt just like any other politicians.  

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39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's part of it.  But, we need to deal and help the people who are here, not bring in more immigrants.  If the people who are here now are helped and including oh yeah those of us waves I'm here too Americans, then talk about more immigrants later but first help the people who are here now.  But, includes those who are here now in California.  I am for their immunity and citizenship, the ones who are here now.  I am speaking of reform regarding those who are not here but who want to immigrate here when I said that will have to wait because the other ones are already here so they couldn't be a wait because they are here.  

I think we have a misunderstanding on the word immigrate.  I'm talking about more coming in.  That should not happen until those who are here are taken care of.  

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40 minutes ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

I find this post quite troubling apologies.    

Let's use me as a test example.
British, now working in the the US.

I signed the book on the way in.

I pay Federal, State, City Taxes.  I pay for your social security, medicare and all that (and I am not eligible to claim those, nor unemployment).  In fact if I became unemployed I have days to pick up my home and move back out of the country.

I am one of those "huge" influx whom are paying for your benefits, infrastructure and schools etc.  I contribute more than the average American as a result as I am an Investor in the US.

I have not pushed anybody to the back as an Immigrant (technically non-immigrant status).  Instead, I am part of the immigrants in this country who do their upmost to work hard and contribute to the country I am a guest of.  Your "money" also comes from people like me, not just "Americans".  

Oh I also can't vote, so nobody brought mine.

No offense intended.

Okay, I wrote that wrong.  That is how I feel about California, not the country.  The Democrats did want a large influx of Hispanic people to buy votes.  If others don't think that is possible...well, it's talked about quite frequently in California, quite frequently indeed.  Politics is a corrupt business and has exploited people on both sides of the border and I've lived it.  

And, as far as @Beth Macbain and the Californian people don't want to do the lowly jobs, I call a total Karen on that one.  And, add a yeah sure, too!

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24 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That's part of it.  But, we need to deal and help the people who are here, not bring in more immigrants.  If the people who are here now are helped and including oh yeah those of us waves I'm here too Americans, then talk about more immigrants later but first help the people who are here now.  But, includes those who are here now in California.  I am for their immunity and citizenship, the ones who are here now.  I am speaking of reform regarding those who are not here but who want to immigrate here when I said that will have to wait because the other ones are already here so they couldn't be a wait because they are here.  

I think we have a misunderstanding on the word immigrate.  I'm talking about more coming in.  That should not happen until those who are here are taken care of.  

I can’t follow your logic apologies at an intellectual, economic or social level - can you explain?
As a guide as to why I have an opposite position on why legal immigration should be encouraged not stopped.  For me it Is for the rich experience and opportunity it brings to those individuals,  but also the societies to which they contribute to.  Skilled workers, Investors are part of those Immigrants, it's not just a one sided story.

Plus economics: In 2014 records immigrants paid an estimated 328 billion dollars in state, local, and federal taxes. Immigrants paid more than 25pct of all taxes in California, and they paid nearly 25 pct of all taxes in New York and New Jersey.   These figures need updating and I haven't had time to do current research.

Either way, I am sure opinions can be fueled by personal feelings and experiences.  We will all differ.  My experience is legal immigration is a positive and helpful way to develop and better your country.

 

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15 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

And, as far as @Beth Macbain and the Californian people don't want to do the lowly jobs, I call a total Karen on that one.  And, add a yeah sure, too!

Then how come the fine people of California aren’t out harvesting the crops

California CNA Renewals

And I can find nothing about a Democratic plan to import Mexicans for votes. Not a single article. As a matter of fact, Obama, Democrat, deported 3 million immigrants.

If there were any truth to your local urban legend, and everyone was talking about it, someone would have investigated and it’d be on FOX news 24/7. As a matter of fact, most of the stories I can find are about Democrats LOSING the Hispanic vote. Can you give me a more concrete source than “it’s talked about frequently”?

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25 minutes ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

I can’t follow your logic apologies at an intellectual, economic or social level - can you explain?
As a guide as to why I have an opposite position on why legal immigration should be encouraged not stopped.  For me it Is for the rich experience and opportunity it brings to those individuals,  but also the societies to which they contribute to.  Skilled workers, Investors are part of those Immigrants, it's not just a one sided story.

Plus economics: In 2014 records immigrants paid an estimated 328 billion dollars in state, local, and federal taxes. Immigrants paid more than 25pct of all taxes in California, and they paid nearly 25 pct of all taxes in New York and New Jersey.   These figures need updating and I haven't had time to do current research.

Either way, I am sure opinions can be fueled by personal feelings and experiences.  We will all differ.  My experience is legal immigration is a positive and helpful way to develop and better your country.

 

I've lived in California all my life.  Yes, we like immigrants but not to the degree where it is taking our jobs away because look how many taxes above to see how many jobs American citizens have lost jobs in California.  Okay, there are people who have lived and worked here all their lives and are American's.  To tell you simply and as to how it pertains to California, we would like jobs too for ourselves and our families.  I don't know how to tell you any plainer than that.  Most California's do not even have health care.  We used to have unions here.  Bringing in all the imported workers has taken away the unions, the benefits, and quite frankly, many American's jobs as their were imported workers who said they would work for less and without benefits.   If American's had those jobs, we would have paid the taxes you show above.  The thing is in California, it wants to be bi-lingual, so many Hispanics have been getting the jobs for several decades now because they are bi-lingual.   Yes, some American's know some Spanish but mostly here if an Hispanic wants a Spanish speaking person, a translator needs to be called in if they are English speaking only.  This way, at least, American's can have some jobs by using a translator.  American's haven't wanted to be forced to speak another language so a compromise is used via a translator.  Hispanic mostly get the translator though.  I've seen very few others such as those of Asian decent, etc, receive a translator for their language.  

As far as immigration it's fine...it's just been way, way too much.  Plus, the Spanish bi-linguals get a lot of the jobs.  

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16 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Then how come the fine people of California aren’t out harvesting the crops

California CNA Renewals

And I can find nothing about a Democratic plan to import Mexicans for votes. Not a single article. As a matter of fact, Obama, Democrat, deported 3 million immigrants.

If there were any truth to your local urban legend, and everyone was talking about it, someone would have investigated and it’d be on FOX news 24/7. As a matter of fact, most of the stories I can find are about Democrats LOSING the Hispanic vote. Can you give me a more concrete source than “it’s talked about frequently”?

Crops; you're doing a Karen again.  I'm not going to discuss it.  Plus, we have people here of Hispanic decent who are 5th, 6th, 7th Generation American's and who own farmlands.  rolls eyes

As far as the CNA renewal I don't see anywhere it says FREE...so I need time to read it all.  

As far as the urban/suburban legend, trust me there are many of us who believe this 100%.  It doesn't mean they stayed Democrat and I never said that, let alone did I say when and what decade the urban legend of it all started but most of us know...we don't feel we have to hide it.  If you don't think politics are corrupt, then maybe you shouldn't even be in a BLM thread.    It's all corrupt and then it's even so corrupt that we cannot even be sure there are no rigged elections for anything.  It's all belief anyways.  

 

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I seem to have missed something along the way... that happens when you skim certain posts because you know they will be insane.

Anyway, what exactly does the alleged issue of immigrants taking all our benefits (or whatever the hell is being alleged here) have to do with BLM?

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3 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I seem to have missed something along the way... that happens when you skim certain posts because you know they will be insane.

Anyway, what exactly does the alleged issue of immigrants taking all our benefits (or whatever the hell is being alleged here) have to do with BLM?

As usual, I'm insane but you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that elections are actually even tallied rather than governments and money choosing whom they want to vote in and the votes just thrown away.   You and others have a belief in the voting system, that's because it's a belief, and it's called a belief.  A belief in the government; a belief in the system.  There is no proof votes are even tallied unless you count them yourself.  

As far as California, I brought it up because people in this country, the people who are here now, need to be taken care of with programs.  Programs that have been going elsewhere other than to it's own citizens, and yes, even including POC.  In California, the boats have been over-loaded and frankly sank.  We cannot take in any more immigrants until the people here are taken care of.  That's what been insane!  This deluge of immigration and that most jobs in California are bi-lingual and have been for decades, and even those of Hispanic decent from a hundred years ago don't want to learn Spanish.  Learning another language and doing it as a business professionally is not an easy task and many of us don't want to learn Spanish not to mention there are thirty other languages spoken in California.  Fortunately, some English speaking American's can get jobs as translators are used now but for 20 years or so it has not been so easy.  

I think this influx of immigrants has taken monies away from it's own citizens - all it's citizens, including POC.  Call me crazy, whatever.  I do not care really.  I've seen and lived what I've lived as have my family and friends.  

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

@Beth Macbain you can prove this that my niece doesn't need to renew her CNA license in a monetary way or to pay for schooling?  I'd like to see that please.  

And every article I am reading on the internet says Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, the first Republican president.  It doesn't say anything about switching parties.  

Bah. I do not know how to do quotes on here. 

Abe Lincoln was a member of the Illinois state House of Representatives from 1834-1842, then a member of the US House of Representatives from 1847-1849.  He was in the Whig party at the time. 

By 1854, he was a member of the Republican party, and ran and won the US Presidency in 1860.  When he ran for reelection, he did not run as a member of the Republican party, instead he ran as a member of the National Union party. Which is why his Vice President in his first term was Hannibal Hamlin, a Republican, and his VP in his second term was Andrew Johnson who also ran as a member of the National Union party, though he had previously been in the Democrat party, and returned to the Democrat party in 1868.  

To confuse matters - it is more that a branch of the Republicans split off and renamed themselves 'National Union party' to pull in War Democrats and others.  While a different branch of the party split off to become Radical Democracy Party, with their candidate being John C. Fremont (who, again to confuse matters, had been the first person to run as a Republican. In 1856). Also to confuse matters, Fremont withdrew before the actual election took place.  Fremont dropped out so that the Democrat candidate wouldn't win. 

Oh, and Lincoln's first campaign to join the Illinois state House of Representatives, in 1832 (which he lost), he did not, it appears, run as a Whig party member. I think. 

Point being that Lincoln's party membership was constantly evolving.  He was constantly switching parties. 

 

What all of this has to do with BLM, I have no idea.  So that my post does not end up being completely off topic, I post the below (which may or may not have already been posted, while I read a good many of the posts before posting now, there probably is about a 3rd of the posts, 1/3rd of the posts, that I have not read.):bdsmlr-9580427-BhGDXiSR5Z.jpg

 

 
Edited by Lexxi Gynoid
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13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

As usual, I'm insane but you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that elections are actually even tallied rather than governments and money choosing whom they want to vote in and the votes just thrown away.   You and others have a belief in the voting system, that's because it's a belief, and it's called a belief.  A belief in the government; a belief in the system.  There is no proof votes are even tallied unless you count them yourself.  

As far as California, I brought it up because people in this country, the people who are here now, need to be taken care of with programs.  Programs that have been going elsewhere other than to it's own citizens, and yes, even including POC.  In California, the boats have been over-loaded and frankly sank.  We cannot take in any more immigrants until the people here are taken care of.  That's what been insane!  This deluge of immigration and that most jobs in California are bi-lingual and have been for decades, and even those of Hispanic decent from a hundred years ago don't want to learn Spanish.  Learning another language and doing it as a business professionally is not an easy task and many of us don't want to learn Spanish not to mention there are thirty other languages spoken in California.  Fortunately, some English speaking American's can get jobs as translators are used now but for 20 years or so it has not been so easy.  

I think this influx of immigrants has taken monies away from it's own citizens - all it's citizens, including POC.  Call me crazy, whatever.  I do not care really.  I've seen and lived what I've lived as have my family and friends.  

What??? 

1) When did I say anything about elections or voting systems?

2) Are you drunk?

3) AGAIN....WHAT DOES ANY OF WHAT YOU ARE GOING ON ABOUT HAVE TO WITH BLM? 

 

tenor-47650107.gif

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3 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

And not a word about all the jobs that have been outsourced to other countries, thereby reducing the number of jobs available for all Americans.

yes agree

the overseas outsourcing of manufacturing has done more damage to the USA job market than any number of spanish speaking migrants

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