Legacy Perky.....Opinions?

[FairreLilette]

34 minutes ago, taisiyakarpenko said:

Well, that's some of those pesky triangles put to work - making a smoother transition from breasts to body.  Which in my opinion looks way better at least if a petite and perhaps perky bodystyle is the goal.

I use my Legacy Perky for photos that show a lot of skin, and in the cases the MT version of clothes fits badly (especially over the shoulders) - Legacy versions of the same items tends to fit better.  Many quite well known designers (not the really big one of course) out there seems to be better at rigging for Legacy than for MT,  my guess is that this is due to policies regarding the dev kit availibility.

In most other situations I stick with my Maitreya (since I tend to wear clothes most of the time), that way I dont get frustrated over the borderline unuseable Legacy HUD - high altitude seams and high tri count not bothering me that much...

 

Aside from the lines which could look a little "doll-like" in some ways, I think the breasts I show in my photo in my prior post on Maitreya look the most real I've ever seen breasts look in SL photos but that's for bigger breasts in that they are not so "perky" so I simply lowered the gravity to make them look more realistic.  But, for photography, no matter what body any of us has, to make them look realistic, I use ultra graphics setting and position the body to hide certain flaws.  The breasts in your photos though with Photo B, I would smooth those lines slightly in Photoshop to give them a softer look.  So, I guess that's a too each their own sort of thing.  I did not smooth any lines though in the two photos I show; it's simply the ultra graphics giving more detail.  I could soften the shlumpy shoulder in Photoshop on the 2nd photo though to get a better look but I didn't like the photo too much anyways so I didn't.

For our listening audience as I'm not interested in it even if they lower the triangle count because of this company running I gather their HUD through their own server which could fail and/or be pulled by this company at any time if I understand one of their problems correctly since they don't use LL resources...but for others so they can get an idea, how many avatar imposters do you have at a busy place of say 35 human mesh avatars when using a Legacy body?  

Plus, I'm gathering the HUD doesn't work too well because this is a 2D body designed for photography...so the HUD doesn't work too well then?  I've heard of Legacy's vast problems, trust me but don't know all the details yet.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Suzy Shenzhou]

Most people commenting in here seem pretty seasoned, but for those wading into all of this new, trying to figure out which body; what hair: who's clothes; skins; AOs; etc. etc.... it can seem endless - there is a little cheap HUD available in the Marketplace (several versions in fact, but all do the same thing) called "What is She Wearing?" or such like. Find someone you think looks good and it will tell you everything they have on. Pretty helpful when you're starting out.

[Suzy Shenzhou]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:08 PM, FairreLilette said:

I think the breasts I show in my photo in my prior post on Maitreya look the most real I've ever seen breasts look in SL photos but that's for bigger breasts in that they are not so "perky" so I simply lowered the gravity to make them look more realistic.

I agree, they look beautiful. Maitreya Lara is a beautiful body, no question. And to your point, (or maybe not your point but I'll make it anyway) our "realistics" may vary - but realism is all over the place. So it just comes down to preference. And speaking of the Gravity slider - that is my favorite torso editing tool. I usually don't touch anything else - but I use that all the time to tweak myself into different kinds of clothes.

[FairreLilette]

9 hours ago, Suzy Shenzhou said:

I agree, they look beautiful. Maitreya Lara is a beautiful body, no question. And to your point, (or maybe not your point but I'll make it anyway) our "realistics" may vary - but realism is all over the place. So it just comes down to preference. And speaking of the Gravity slider - that is my favorite torso editing tool. I usually don't touch anything else - but I use that all the time to tweak myself into different kinds of clothes.

Yes, it all varies.  The photo I took in my other post which I show does *to me* almost look like a real person and I find it uncanny in a way and surprising.  It's the first photo, not the one with the shoulder schlump (deformed shoulders).  Even the breasts from the Maitreya it looks real to me.  It's the feet that really give it away it's an avatar, imo.  

But, kind of off topic, in regards to the gravity though, I have tried to figure out whether it's the gravity that affects the breast physics.  It seemed when I put my gravity up, the breast physics work better.  It got me to wondering do the breasts need to be higher up because the physics make the breasts bounce downward and then back up?  If what I'm saying is true, then lower gravity will not work for physics if the breasts bounce downward because the breasts being lower wouldn't have a way *to* bounce downward since they low to begin with.   I couldn't really finish this study because there are so many other things that may affect breast physics plus being busy in other projects.  But, if people have time, it's worth trying to put your breasts up and see if the physics work better this way.  Gravity does look better for bra-less kinds of outfits...but I'm not sure if it could impede the movement from the breast physics.  My breasts seemed to move better when I had them *not* low.  Others IM'd me and said "how did you get your breasts to move like that"...I said I put the gravity up.  

Edited May 30, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Suzy Shenzhou]

6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

But, kind of off topic, in regards to the gravity though, I have tried to figure out whether it's the gravity that affects the breast physics.  It seemed when I put my gravity up, the breast physics work better.  It got me to wondering do the breasts need to be higher up because the physics make the breasts bounce downward and then back up?  If what I'm saying is true, then lower gravity will not work for physics if the breasts bounce downward because the breasts being lower wouldn't have a way *to* bounce downward since they low to begin with.   I couldn't really finish this study because there are so many other things that may affect breast physics plus being busy in other projects.  But, if people have time, it's worth trying to put your breasts up and see if the physics work better this way.  Gravity does look better for bra-less kinds of outfits...but I'm not sure if it could impede the movement from the breast physics.  My breasts seemed to move better when I had them *not* low.  Others IM'd me and said "how did you get your breasts to move like that"...I said I put the gravity up. 

Yeah that's interesting. I don't know either. The physics attachment I've been using (from Fisica) comes with a walk cycle to test their variations. I'll drop myself in a sandbox sometime and test it.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 5/26/2020 at 5:47 AM, Maitimo said:

You'd be better off getting Maitreya, plus one of those deformers like this:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Avatar-Clinic-Breasts-Enhancers-Breasts-Up-Plus-set/19062836

Or this one which has the best name ever: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Birth-Boob-O-Matic-Boob-DeformerPositioner-Hud-10/18316834

 

I did not even know this was a thing. 

[Suzy Shenzhou]

I had high hopes for those breast deformers. I think I own 3. They are just too cartoonishly extreme to take seriously. Maybe there are better ones now, but personally, I don't need my breasts to enter a room 30 seconds before I do.

[Emma Krokus]

1 hour ago, Suzy Shenzhou said:

I had high hopes for those breast deformers. I think I own 3. They are just too cartoonishly extreme to take seriously. Maybe there are better ones now, but personally, I don't need my breasts to enter a room 30 seconds before I do.

Haha - thank you! Made me think of those Carry On films where the matron's bosoms do just that!

[Suzy Shenzhou]

I know this is a Legacy Perky Opinions thread - but since we've veered into peripheral topics, I wanted to add something about Candy Doll - the fashion company. I have no connection; not being paid to endorse - but I am really impressed with their attention to detail. The seams; threads; folds; meticulous fit - whenever I zoom in on something I bought from them I am always really amazed. Their things are not cheap though and hyper sexy, so maybe not for everyone (personally, I LIKE my nipples poking through my clothes). But I LOVE their stuff.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Well, opinions differ... I always found that store on the high priced side with OKish quality. When they increased their participation in numerous events, the quality dropped: pretty obvious issues with body parts bleeding through, just where they couldn't be alphaed out easily, like in the bent of the knee while wearing some boots. So I didn't bother anymore.

Perhaps the quality has improved, me not know.

[Suzy Shenzhou]

On 6/6/2020 at 3:27 AM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

When they increased their participation in numerous events, the quality dropped:

Agree about this issue (Fashion Events overkill) - not necessarily for Candy Doll and not even "build" quality so much as style. So often everything feels like just a slight variation of something I already have three of. I can imagine it is hard for designers to keep that monthly pace and more so over several events. I assume the exposure makes it worth it.

On C.D. quality issues - probably right. Who hasn't had problems working out their mesh bugs over time? But I haven't had any such issues with their pieces in the last year or two. In particular I was referring to the recent sets - "Sugar"; "Anitta"; "Sienna" and "Allyson". The textures.; folds in the fabric; threads on the seams;  fit (especially when it's designed to fit imperfectly) - pretty amazing really. I don't see many designers put that kind of natural looking detail into their pieces very often.

Expensive? yeah. For everybody? no. But I like to show some appreciation when the bar is raised a little in here.

[JanuarySwan]

I didn't have the perky but I did try the Legacy when trying to make a realistic looking dancer's shape for a friend.  The thighs in the Legacy original pre-perky look a little strange, so best to get a bikini and dance around in the demo to see how you like the way the legs look.  Maitreya body is photo #1.  Legacy body is photo #2.   Both of these have the same shape on.  I think the Legacy legs look kind of strange and almost like a plastic doll the way they are rounded.   I had a demo on for the bikini.  Maitreya looks like a more realistic body overall.  

Maitreya Body Photo #1

Legacy Body Photo #2

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by JanuarySwan
coverbreastsbetter

[Pris Aquila]

On 5/26/2020 at 8:24 AM, Ajay McDowwll said:

Just a note here that being a Dinkie does not exclude an avatar from an INCREDIBLY high complexity, nor does using a system avatar.  I've seen Dinkies with complexities well over 100K, and the same for classic avatars.  It's more about the clothing and accessories than anything else.

I'm new to mesh body/head changes, and was also wondering what is an acceptable range of complexity? I think I might be too high 😬 Something like 40K?

[Ajay McDowwll]

5 hours ago, Pris Aquila said:

I'm new to mesh body/head changes, and was also wondering what is an acceptable range of complexity? I think I might be too high 😬 Something like 40K?

It really varies quite a bit   I think under 100K is generally accepted as reasonable.  My personal preference is to be as low as possible, but that's more of a personal challenge and not something I always meet.  If I love an outfit and I'm really feeling it that day, I'll wear it and deal with being near 80K   Today I'm around 24K.

[tako Absent]

I've been demoing Legacy body since yesterday. In my opinion, Maitreya still has the best looking legs but both classic and perky's detail especially the shoulder is wayyyy better than Maitreya's. I think im going Legacy:perky direction 'cos i find it the most realistic looking torso of them all but the only thing that is holding me back in shifting to Perky from Maitreya is the outfit compatibility especially with my favorite brands. Yes, most of the brands i like has the Legacy fit but realistically speaking they still does not fit really well compare to Maitreya. 

Here's my comparison of Legacy: classic, perky and Maitreya: Lara V5.x  Each of them has different shapes i made. I tried to make  the Legacy bodies to look as close as my Maitreya body(my staple shape)  I covered the face for you to focus on the body

Edited August 2, 2020 by tako Absent
added photo

[EspressoDepresso]

I absolutely love how the body looks visually, and it has a good amount of support, but thats really all the pros it has. No omega support to this day, poor customer service for years on end, the body being a lag monster, etc.  I personally haven't experienced lag with the body but that could be due to my PC, I still wouldn't recommend it. The maitreya has a lot more support, is easier to use, is compact and etc. The only reason I don't use generally better bodies like the Hourglass and Maitreya is because i've been using them for years on end and felt like something new, besides, out of every body in SL the legacy is my favourite.... I just wish it was more than just appearance. 

[Laurel Aurelia]

I used Maitreya as my primary body for a really, really long time, and did not have any complaints about it because you could not beat the sheer amount of options for clothing/appliers it had, and the relative ease of use of it's HUD. Last year when the Legacy body came out, I tried it on a lark because I was curious about it, and was instantly blown away by the looks of it. For me there are some huge improvements in the overall shape of the mesh : no pointy butt if your hip length is too short, slightly larger, softer looking legs (I always get compliments on my legs), the wrists are more slender and tapered , the shoulders are modeled better, the waist actually nips in even without saddle bags turned up, the stomach has some definition to it independent to the skin so when you look at it from the side, it's not entirely flat. For my particular shape which trends  towards  slender and shorter than perhaps the average, the back on Maitreya also would get a bit weird if you narrowed your shoulders too much (texture of the skin kind of bunches up), but that doesn't happen with Legacy as far as my experimentation with it has taken me. Recently, they did an update to Legacy Perky that fixed some of the glaring issues such as:  now we can use the material layers included in the HUD on top of BOM and fixed the slices in the body that occurred at certain heights ( I think those changes for some of the other Legacy bodies are still in the works, but if you are curious check the mesh body website for the most recent updates).

It's not all roses for me with Legacy, however.  The HUD system is sluggish and sometimes doesn't work. The HUD has some fancy animations on certain pages that while look cool often impede me when I am trying to do basic things like alphaing my armpits. I am looking at you rotating alpha cut tab! While the Legacy HUD gives me sleek aesthetic, I care more for function, and you find oodles of that with the Maitreya HUD. I click a thing and it just works.

I did give the Maitreya petite chest a try when it first came out and I did not like it for myself personally.  The breasts sat too low for me no matter how much I played with the gravity.

With all this being said, do I think people need to switch exclusively to Legacy? Nope. I think if you are happy with your body and look, and people are still making great content for it then stick with it. For me all the aesthetic improvements I see outweigh the negatives. There are things I want them to do in the future, like making the body less complex and and an easier to use HUD system, and I hope that is a priority for the creators.

If you read all of this... Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

 

[Marianne Little]

I have become skeptical to invest in a Legacy body, because they continue the TMP way of not upgrading for free. If they work on a body that only reduce the triangles, I fear they will sell it as: "New and Improved Legacy Light Body with fewer Triangles" for 5000 L again, even if I already have bought the high triangles body. Their most expensive TMP actually cost 10 000 L, just to get layers and alpha cuts. 6 months later Maitreya came out and every single upgrade has been free.

1 hour ago, Laurel Aurelia said:

(Snip)..............................

There are things I want them to do in the future, like making the body less complex and and an easier to use HUD system, and I hope that is a priority for the creators.

If you read all of this... Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

 

 

[Laurel Aurelia]

I was not around for the original TMP though I've read a great deal about their former business practices. I think there is definite reason to be skeptical of the new stuff, but I will say that with their latest update to Perky, they gave a free even smaller breast add-on that replaces the chest plate that acts similarly to how Maitreya Petite does. I think they have a long way to go to restore trust in the general populous for their products, and I might be wearing rose colored glasses because I was never burned by them personally.  I hope the free add on for Perky and the 1 linden  TMP body (which is arguably one of the best low cost options for avatars on a budget) are just the start to turning things around.  Or maybe it's not >.<  I can only report my specific experiences and opinions. I like the products, but I understand why others may not.

[Marianne Little]

Oh, I like their look. I think their bodies are the best looking. It is just sad that they insist on making things their way and not the customerfriendly way. But the HUD was much worse before, so they have changed a bit to the better.

The 1 L body is a step forward to redemption, no doubt. TMP had a free body in those days, but it was mostly unusable since no parts could be hidden. This 1 L body is functional, and I love that there is BoM built in.

Back then it was different priced bodies, to get an alpha HUD, you had to buy the most expensive one. I had it on myself, and on 2 other avatars, plus 2 full priced heads. Madness when you think about it. But it was so few other mesh bodyparts to buy. I disliked Slink and was mad at Belleza because reasons that are too long to discuss here. So it was TMP or nothing else until Maitreya came.

That they actually fixed the slices in the body and made it better, is a promising sign.

Still loving the look, hating the complexity and not trusting it enough to buy. Maybe if they do something with the complexity.

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:43 PM, taisiyakarpenko said:

Well, that's some of those pesky triangles put to work - making a smoother transition from breasts to body.  Which in my opinion looks way better at least if a petite and perhaps perky bodystyle is the goal.

As Regalia shows, on around 30,000 triangles total you can get the same detail as these other bodies do.

Upping triangle count doesn't help Jack from Jill... it just boosts lag, slows down rendering, and actually slows down animation of those 'wonderful breast details' you note because there's so much more math to do to figure out where each polygon goes and how light and other things will affect each polygon...

What counts...

Is triangle placement - angle, position, and grouping, such that the 'lines' and edges of polygons best match with how something will deform, making the math impact as few things as possible, thereby smoothing and speeding up the result.

I can do... as some major bodies do... and add a few billion triangles to the belly button then tell noobs that "high higher triangle count" and it doesn't help anything - except confuse your GPU when it's trying to math out where that belly button is at any second and how light should hit it... zero benefit, a whole lotta loss... for what?

Likewise I can put millions of triangles all around the breasts and it will still deform badly, have jagged edges, and react weirdly to physics because these three things are NOT about polygon COUNT but about polygon PLACEMENT (angle, position, grouping).