Legacy Perky.....Opinions?

[Myth Valeska]

Hey all. I was just looking to get opinions about the Legacy Perky body! How do you feel about it vs Maitreya Lara? Pro's, Con's? I have the demo I'm going to try, just wanted to know other's thoughts

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Well, some opinions leant towards "rip off"...

[FairreLilette]

Yes, it's a rip off, imo.  It isn't the first time this company was called a rip-off; it's the 2nd I know for sure and maybe even the 3rd.

The triangle count at 750K triangles could also make your SL a complete lag hell.  

If you don't know about triangle counts...it's time to learn unless you want to live in lag hell.  Most people will jelly doll you or derender you at that triangle count which is astronomical, so you won't even be seen by most of SL anyway. 

Triangle count is not your avatar complexity; it is the amount of polygons used which can put you in complete lag hell at 750K triangles which is frankly considered nuts.   

In polygon/triangle count Maitreya is about 150K triangles; Slink around 200K.  The rest I don't know about as I don't use them nor have I checked.  I use Maitreya.  

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[LunaRavencroft]

I mean, honestly.. if you're going to get the Legacy, stick with the basic (or the gift version) one. Perky is a waste.

[Maitimo]

You'd be better off getting Maitreya, plus one of those deformers like this:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Avatar-Clinic-Breasts-Enhancers-Breasts-Up-Plus-set/19062836

Or this one which has the best name ever: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Birth-Boob-O-Matic-Boob-DeformerPositioner-Hud-10/18316834

 

[Marianne Little]

I suggest: Legacy perky for photos and self admiration at home when you are not lagged and just want to pose, and Maitreya when you are out in SL and want to move around and be seen by others.

If you can afford Legacy, you can buy a Maitreya too. Many of the popular clothes/shoes seller include both body sizes when you purchase from them, so it is only the added cost of the Maitreya body.

It is money to play with, it is up to you what you do with them.

[Orwar]

36 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I suggest: Legacy perky for photos and self admiration at home when you are not lagged and just want to pose

   Unless you intend on doing so on a photo platform, as the body breaks above certain altitudes. 

[FairreLilette]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I suggest: Legacy perky for photos and self admiration at home when you are not lagged and just want to pose, and Maitreya when you are out in SL and want to move around and be seen by others.

Yes, it's pretty much this.  The Legacy bodies are for 2D photography with that high of a polygon/triangle count.  They are what is called un-optimized content and are not meant to be run in a 3D world.  The Lindens did not make those nor do they provide a useable viewer to run un-optimized content.  Second Life is user created content.  The viewer of SL was made for the original Classic avatar you receive when you start a SL.   Some un-optimized content made within SL works fairly well as long as you keep a count of your triangles somewhat when doing your avatar, home, business or club so as not to lag yourself and everyone out when it comes to mesh avatars and decor.  But 750K triangles for a body is considered utterly nuts.  

The Legacy bodies are for 2D photography and not much else.

I hope the Lindens provide us with a triangle slider so we can just completely eliminate them from our SL as they lag everyone.

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

   Unless you intend on doing so on a photo platform, as the body breaks above certain altitudes. 

This is probably true as I have not tried these bodies for photography myself.  I would not get into their game.  I hope their plug is pulled.  SL will be much better without anyone trying to think SL can run 750K bodies because it can't.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

   Unless you intend on doing so on a photo platform, as the body breaks above certain altitudes. 

It's pretty bad above 600m already, above 1k it's a disaster, 2k-3k and up it's what I call a "seam city". Even at the ground level there's a few small, but visible seams, between breasts (more visible on normal one, less on perky version) and inner thighs for example. Crotch area, as well as the butt are the worst offenders, almost sad it's against ToS to post such pictures here. *Inb4 army of supporters rushes in and claims it's all not true, and even if it is, then it's still "the best one out there... because!". and whoever doesn't agree with it is a hater *

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

It's pretty bad above 600m already, above 1k it's a disaster, 2k-3k and up it's what I call a "seam city". Even at the ground level there's a few small, but visible seams, between breasts (more visible on normal one, less on perky version) and inner thighs for example. Crotch area, as well as the butt are the worst offenders, almost sad it's against ToS to post such pictures here. *Inb4 army of supporters rushes in and claims it's all not true, and even if it is, then it's still "the best one out there... because!". and whoever doesn't agree with it is a hater *

That's too bad if I am called a hater.

I am part of "the tiny revolution".  The tiny revolution involves knowing how to have a lag-free SL experience.  If anyone has a problem with what I am saying, take it up with the tinies in a meeting because we are not haters.  Tinies do not hate anyone nor anything except lag and mega lag - that's why I say 'learn' about triangle/polygon counts.

There is a way to read triangles in your viewer.  If on Firestorm, ask where that feature is.

And, I do hope LL or Firestorm add a feature with a triangle slider so we can just eliminate high triangle 2D photography stuff from our viewer and computer altogether as we have a right to a lag-free good SL also...thus, the revolution.  

Edit:  Without going inworld to read the triangle count go to ADVANCED, Render Metadata, Triangles.  I believe that's where the tool is or should get you pretty close as I am not inworld right now.  Under Advanced, Render Metadata, you can read the texture size also by choosing TEXTURES under that feature.  

Also, I am assuming people are using Photoshop to clear unwanted seams.  This is way too many triangles to be even considered for a 3D world.  The viewer is not meant for this kind of polygon count.  Super high polygon count is for photography and then it sounds like you need to Photoshop everything with these Legacy bodies.

Just remember LL did not make these bodies.  Someone else did.   

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Janet Voxel]

2 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

It's pretty bad above 600m already, above 1k it's a disaster, 2k-3k and up it's what I call a "seam city". Even at the ground level there's a few small, but visible seams, between breasts (more visible on normal one, less on perky version) and inner thighs for example. Crotch area, as well as the butt are the worst offenders, almost sad it's against ToS to post such pictures here. *Inb4 army of supporters rushes in and claims it's all not true, and even if it is, then it's still "the best one out there... because!". and whoever doesn't agree with it is a hater *

You left out poor.

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

You left out poor.

Oh yeah absolutely we hate this mess-a-piece body because we are poor.  

But just general information - not directed at Janet's comment:   This has the potential to wreck your computer as well as other's computers if you aren't running it as a hermit.

There is no "video game" nor "virtual world" in existence that can run a 750K triangle avatar.  None that I know of.  Most video games, the average avatar runs about 20k triangles per avatar, not 750k triangles per avatar.  How many 20k avatars can you get into that one 750k avatar?  

These bodies were designed for 2D photography.  That is what they were designed for, but does it tell you that?  No.

That leaves, do your homework and learn.  The tools are there and so is Google search to collect data about this.  

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Janet Voxel]

9 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Oh yeah absolutely we hate this body because we are poor.  

This has the potential to wreck your computer as well as others if you aren't running it as a hermit.

There is no "video game" nor "virtual world" that can run a 750K triangle avatar.  None that I know of.  Most video games, the average avatar runs about 20k triangles per avatar, not 750k triangles per avatar.  How many 20k avatars can you get into that one 750k avatar?  

These bodies were designed for 2D photography.  That is what they were designed for, but does it tell you that?  No.

That leaves, do your homework and learn.  The tools are there and so is Google search to collect data about this.  

 

It was sarcasm. Those are the things Legacy Stans come in here saying.

[Claireschen Hesten]

There's almost no content available for this particular version of Legacy plus where a barely rigged for perky option possibly a push up option too i think is included as standard with Belleza bodies Legacy are charging L$5-5.5k.
Their marketplace presence isn't very helpful for reviews as they relist their products to escape too much negativity plus for their inworld group that is needed to get the free new TMP classic any criticism of TMP products is not allowed in group chat and will get you kicked out.
TMP/Legacy/The Shops or what ever they are calling themselves are a brand that like to milk as much L$ as possible out of people where other body brands include things as standard or as free upgrades they charge i can definitely recall getting my TMP alt some freebie shoes on the marketplace 2-3 years back and in order to wear them i'd have to spend a lot to get the high & ouch feet that weren't included.
If someone has neither body i'd say get the Maitreya or at least a compatible body it's widely rigged for, less triangles, doesn't need media enabled or relies on an external server, with the money you save not buying a TMP Legacy product you can buy a bunch of things to wear for your Maitreya. If i had a spare L$5.5k to be frivolous with there are hundreds of things i'd rather buy than anything Legacy.

 

Someone else mentioned visible seams on Legacy i upgraded my TMP alt to the new free "Classic" body because it got all the in house clothes when they were free and at more or less ground level just below the left knee is this lovely glaring seam that goes round the whole calf

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

It was sarcasm. Those are the things Legacy Stans come in here saying.

I know...that's why I said "oh yeah absolutely", my sarcasm too because that is not the reason.   Yeah sure I hate this body because I am poor and "the tiny revolution" exists for no reason either.    We know darn well most of us could afford it too but do you want to be buying a new graphics card too and then another graphics card after that and so on and so on.  Let's see them afford that.  

In my posts I direct others as to how they can learn about a 750K naked things as once dressed and with hair and shoes probably near 1 million triangles.   It doesn't matter who makes it.  What matter is there is no virtual world nor video game in existence that can run 750K triangles, and that's naked unless you want to be a hermit or use it for it's intended purpose which is 2D photography within SL.  That is it's intended purpose and what it was designed for - 2D photography within a 3D world.  2D photography in SL is very popular.  But, these bodies are not meant for anything else and certainly not to be on the grid walking around with others doing potential harm to one's computer or other's computers.  They are going to burn out their graphics cards.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Ajay McDowwll]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

That's too bad if I am called a hater.

I am part of "the tiny revolution".  The tiny revolution involves knowing how to have a lag-free SL experience.  If anyone has a problem with what I am saying, take it up with the tinies in a meeting because we are not haters.  Tinies do not hate anyone nor anything except lag and mega lag - that's why I say 'learn' about triangle/polygon counts.

There is a way to read triangles in your viewer.  If on Firestorm, ask where that feature is.

And, I do hope LL or Firestorm add a feature with a triangle slider so we can just eliminate high triangle 2D photography stuff from our viewer and computer altogether as we have a right to a lag-free good SL also...thus, the revolution.  

Edit:  Without going inworld to read the triangle count go to ADVANCED, Render Metadata, Triangles.  I believe that's where the tool is or should get you pretty close as I am not inworld right now.  Under Advanced, Render Metadata, you can read the texture size also by choosing TEXTURES under that feature.  

Also, I am assuming people are using Photoshop to clear unwanted seams.  This is way too many triangles to be even considered for a 3D world.  The viewer is not meant for this kind of polygon count.  Super high polygon count is for photography and then it sounds like you need to Photoshop everything with these Legacy bodies.

Just remember LL did not make these bodies.  Someone else did.   

Just a note here that being a Dinkie does not exclude an avatar from an INCREDIBLY high complexity, nor does using a system avatar.  I've seen Dinkies with complexities well over 100K, and the same for classic avatars.  It's more about the clothing and accessories than anything else.

[FairreLilette]

16 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

Just a note here that being a Dinkie does not exclude an avatar from an INCREDIBLY high complexity, nor does using a system avatar.  I've seen Dinkies with complexities well over 100K, and the same for classic avatars.  It's more about the clothing and accessories than anything else.

Avatar complexity has NOTHING to do with triangle/polygon counts.  Avatar complexity is something else entirely.   Read my other posts above.  

There is a Wiki regarding Second Life's Avatar complexity which is NOT the triangle/polygon count.  

Dinkies, because we are a low triangle avatar itself at about 17k triangles, Dinkies can have super high complexity and have 90 avatar events; we could probably even exceed the limit of 90 avatars per region and go up to about 120 avatars per region.  So, avatar complexity is far over-rated.  It may help some for human mesh avatars.  BOM cuts your avatar complexity in at least half, probably a bit more (fully dressed).  

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Ajay McDowwll]

I can still be lagged to death by a jellydolled Dinkie.  I promise 🙂

[Maitimo]

58 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

There's almost no content available for this particular version of Legacy plus where a barely rigged for perky option possibly a push up option too i think is included as standard with Belleza bodies Legacy are charging L$5-5.5k.

This is why a deformer is better than a different body option. Even the Belleza ones, which have the additional breast options included, have next to no clothing that fits them and they're really only of any use if you're going round topless. But because a deformer works on the bones of the avatar skeleton, the fitmesh clothes you wear deform too, so everything that fits your regular body will still fit when you wear the deformer.

And a deformer is MUCH cheaper than a new body - even the Chrysanthemums, which are the most expensive ones, are under L$1k.

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

I can still be lagged to death by a jellydolled Dinkie.  I promise 🙂

 That is NOT possible unless you are on a below the limit specs type of computer.  

It you've avatar complexity is set to any limit, it will jelly doll anything above that limit if it's an avatar, especially because Dinkie's can wear some of the unrigged hairs, jewelry and other human accessories.  It is really making a jelly doll of the accessories and clothing because that's where your complexity is set too.  At 17k triangles for a Dinkie, the Dinkie nor the accessories are lagging you.  Your own avatar can lag you, however, because your computer's resources still have to render you and the "world".   Your Dinkie is jelly doll because you have a limit set for avatar complexity which again has nothing to do with the triangle/polygon count.  

I said I believe you read the triangles under ADVANCED/RENDER METADATA/TRIANGLES and also said I am not inworld right now so I'm remembering off the top of my head.  But, again, you read the triangle count a different way and I believe it's ADVANCED/RENDER METADATA/TRIANGLES.  

[Ajay McDowwll]

You are incorrect, @FairreLilette; I'm relatively competent with determining when I'm lagged, and the accessories some Dinkies use because they feel they can due to their small size can easily completely offset the relative lack of complexity of the avatar.

[FairreLilette]

6 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

You are incorrect, @FairreLilette; I'm relatively competent with determining when I'm lagged, and the accessories some Dinkies use because they feel they can due to their small size can easily completely offset the relative lack of complexity of the avatar.

It's your computer. 

The triangles and avatar complexity have nothing to do with each other.  You have lag issues just on complexity, you aren't going to be able to be lag free with these high triangle mesh avatars.  

I'd say that's the main reason we all need a slider to reduce the triangle/polygon count we want our computer's to render.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Ajay McDowwll]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's your computer. 

The triangles and avatar complexity have nothing to do with each other.  You have lag issues just on complexity, you aren't going to be able to be lag free with these high triangle mesh avatars.  

I can say with all sincerity that it isn't my computer.  Your reasoning is incorrect; I cannot make you see that, but I can stop here, so I will.  Have a lovely day.

[FairreLilette]

31 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

I can say with all sincerity that it isn't my computer.  Your reasoning is incorrect; I cannot make you see that, but I can stop here, so I will.  Have a lovely day.

This doesn't explain anything.  It's just blanket statements.  If you can't render one Dinkie clothed with one hair and jewelry, you cannot render much period - pure logic.  

Have a lovely day too.  

p.s.  If you are asking me to be the avatar complexity etiquette for someone else, I can't.  Because I know nothing of your computer nor do I invade that person's personal space and never will as I consider that extremely private.  Plus, I know nothing of your avatar, the Dinkie nor the world you were in when the lag happened as all are resources to your computer when the lag happens so I have to go on logic.

As far as most Dinkies...most Dinkies tend to be low avatar complexity as we don't use HUDS for clothing for example but there are a few exceptions.  I have two Dinkie items I love with a HUD.  We try to keep low on scripts in general though.   The jewelry I have on and the flowers in my hair in my avatar photo here contain no resizer scripts as I made them myself to fit Dinkies.  I made almost all my items with no scripts.

I have lived nine months as a Dinkie at 80+ events and day to day events.  You have to live as a low triangle avatar to actually know the difference and, once you do, the avatar complexity means nothing if it's exclusively Dinkies and Tinies.    

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

As far as the discussions here about triangle/polygon count and avatar complexity, this thread is really for the OP.

To simplify things as per your own personal computer, do some computer tests with mesh bodies which are very easy.  First, take off your whole mesh avatar and go around as an invisible avatar to busy places and see how much lag you have and what your FPS are.  Next, take the Perky and any other mesh body DEMOS to busy places and see how your computer reacts to each DEMO body whether good or bad in busy places.  This is really the only way to know how much triangle/polygon count your computer can handle.  As far as your avatar complexity, I'd say set it where you usually do.  

If you don't like busy places and plan on living a SL kept to oneself or perhaps with just one other person as a couple and/or for 2D photography in a 3D world, you don't need to worry about it other than perhaps you need some Photoshop skills to make your photos look better.