Other creators' props being sold on mp

[AdminGirl]

Heya

I saw an item being sold as a gacha on mp, but I actually recognize it as a prop from another creator's furniture. I know some props used as part of AVsitter need to allow copy and transfer permissions, so I'm guessing this person may be taking advantage of that and selling the items to others.

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

Thanks in advance!

[Extrude Ragu]

I think LL only responds if it is the creator complaining.

With that said, it's possible they may have used one of those full perm props sold on the MP or something. I think it's best to inform the creator just in case.

 

[Cindy Evanier]

5 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

Heya

I saw an item being sold as a gacha on mp, but I actually recognize it as a prop from another creator's furniture. I know some props used as part of AVsitter need to allow copy and transfer permissions, so I'm guessing this person may be taking advantage of that and selling the items to others.

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

Thanks in advance!

As far as i know only the original creator can take it up.  So informing them is all you can do 

[Mollymews]

6 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

you can let the creator know. And they can change the permissions on an updated version

am not sure tho that Linden will do anything about reselling items that are given/sold to us as Copy + Transfer

[AdminGirl]

@Extrude Ragu @Cindy Evanier @Mollymews Okiez thanks everyone

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

Heya

I saw an item being sold as a gacha on mp, but I actually recognize it as a prop from another creator's furniture. I know some props used as part of AVsitter need to allow copy and transfer permissions, so I'm guessing this person may be taking advantage of that and selling the items to others.

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

Thanks in advance!

It is also possible that the props you saw used in the furniture set were purchased full perm - and the person selling them as a gacha did the same thing.  That is why only the original creator can file for any action.

You would have to buy the gacha item and the furniture set to see who the creator of both really are.

[Maitimo]

5 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

Heya

I saw an item being sold as a gacha on mp, but I actually recognize it as a prop from another creator's furniture. I know some props used as part of AVsitter need to allow copy and transfer permissions, so I'm guessing this person may be taking advantage of that and selling the items to others.

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

Thanks in advance!

Do you mean that a person is re-selling an item they won in a gacha? If so, that's legitimate; gacha items are released as transfer/no-copy.  Or do you mean that another creator is releasing their own gachas, claiming it to be their own work, when it isn't?

It has to be the original creator. Best you can do is let them know and they can take the action they deem best. (You never know, they may have licensed that other person to use their product in their own creations).

[Evah Baxton]

This has me thinking about stock sites where you can purchase or download royalty free meshes and textures. How does that work in SL? How would they ever know the original creator?

[LittleMe Jewell]

26 minutes ago, Evah Baxton said:

This has me thinking about stock sites where you can purchase or download royalty free meshes and textures. How does that work in SL? How would they ever know the original creator?

Nobody would know the "true original creator".  In SL, it will simply show as whomever uploaded the mesh / texture to SL.  

Multiple people could thus upload the same item from one of those sites and there would then be many identical items in SL, each with a different creator.

Edited May 21, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell
grammar

[Evah Baxton]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

In SL, it will simply show as whomever uploaded the mesh / texture to SL.

Right. So it's possible, in this case, that the item is stock.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

6 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

Heya

I saw an item being sold as a gacha on mp, but I actually recognize it as a prop from another creator's furniture. I know some props used as part of AVsitter need to allow copy and transfer permissions, so I'm guessing this person may be taking advantage of that and selling the items to others.

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

Thanks in advance!

Is it possible the "prop" is a full perm? I would think this is highly probable.

[FairreLilette]

6 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

Heya

I saw an item being sold as a gacha on mp, but I actually recognize it as a prop from another creator's furniture. I know some props used as part of AVsitter need to allow copy and transfer permissions, so I'm guessing this person may be taking advantage of that and selling the items to others.

My question is, who should be the one reporting this? Does it have to be the creator or can anyone report? (in addition to letting the original creator know, of course)

Thanks in advance!

AdminGirl, many, many items used for Gachas are from full perm items sold here on the Marketplace; not all Gachas are original items by that creator.  So, I would not get involved.   Gachas are full of full perm items.  I see them all of the time.  Some full perm sellers say "may not be used for Gacha" but the vast majority don't.  It is up to each individual full perm seller to define their user license, not to mention many may allow it to be used for a Gacha in a private deal if they get a small percentage. If you get involved with Gacha you will see many full perm items those of which are currently sold in SL.  So, again, each seller of a full perm item has a right to write their own user license in regards to how the item is used within SL.  You cannot go around "policing" full perm items in Gachas unless you know each specific user license from a full perm seller as all vary per each individual and it would take you beyond eternity to read or to know each and every full perm seller's user license.  If you know the user license, then you shouldn't have to ask this question.   

If you would like me to show you a Gacha item and a full perm item in a private IM to you, let me know because I can show you and it is done all the time.   

Edited May 21, 2020 by FairreLilette

[AdminGirl]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It is also possible that the props you saw used in the furniture set were purchased full perm - and the person selling them as a gacha did the same thing.  That is why only the original creator can file for any action.

You would have to buy the gacha item and the furniture set to see who the creator of both really are.

 

54 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Do you mean that a person is re-selling an item they won in a gacha? If so, that's legitimate; gacha items are released as transfer/no-copy.  Or do you mean that another creator is releasing their own gachas, claiming it to be their own work, when it isn't?

It has to be the original creator. Best you can do is let them know and they can take the action they deem best. (You never know, they may have licensed that other person to use their product in their own creations).

 

Ok so both items are created by the furniture creator. Let's just say the furniture creator's brand is Toasty, and the item name is "Toasty - Cereal Bowl". Made up names for the sake of example. "Toasty - Cereal Bowl" comes with a furniture set sold by Toasty, and is also used as a prop via the scripts in said furniture. The prop has copy and transfer permissions once purchased.

An mp seller listed that exact same item, with the exact same name "Toasty - Cereal Bowl", claiming it to be a gacha item by the furniture creator Toasty, but it's not actually a gacha item. The mp seller is just selling the props that came with the furniture set.

I guess it's clear that if a creator doesn't set the appropriate permissions, then they leave themselves vulnerable to this kind of thing. However, based on my very limited tinkering with the AVsitter script, I've read that some props require copy and transfer perms to be granted for the script to work (at least in the case of temp attachments). So it's just very unfortunate that people would then try to profit off of that, since it's clear at least to me that the intention of the creator is for the customer to use the item and not sell it. Even if I'm not seeing it from the creator's POV, it's also dishonest to people who might potentially buy that misrepresented gacha item since that's deceptive.

It makes me think though.. if LL doesn't officially act on situations like this, then what technically makes this "wrong"? Our personal moral code or sense of good faith? I mean, what actually is stopping anyone from either selling other people's stuff, or deceiving potential customers on mp?

 

 

[FairreLilette]

11 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

an mp seller listed that exact same item, with the exact same name "Toasty - Cereal Bowl", claiming it to be a gacha item by the furniture creator Toasty, but it's not actually a gacha item. The mp seller is just selling the props that came with the furniture set.

This is a different spin now but I'll give my two cents.  I have seen a few of these and it's usually a kind of junk I don't think most people would want to buy it nor even want for free for an alt.  But, the other problem is it could be the same creator selling under two different names.  So, to get involved or not get involved, I'd say pick you battles.  If you think it's worth bothering about, go for it.  If it looks so junky no one would fall for it, don't take everything upon your shoulders is my two cents.  It's good to see others concerned for others though, so do want you think necessary.  However, you may run across this kind of thing from time to time.  I have seen it also.  The few items I saw were so junky I didn't think anyone would buy it nor want it for free and it usually was "killed" or died out because no one, in fact, did want it.  

Edited May 21, 2020 by FairreLilette

[AdminGirl]

5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

AdminGirl, many, many items used for Gachas are from full perm items sold here on the Marketplace; not all Gachas are original items by that creator.  So, I would not get involved.   Gachas are full of full perm items.  I see them all of the time.  Some full perm sellers say "may not be used for Gacha" but the vast majority don't.  It is up to each individual full perm seller to define their user license, not to mention many may allow it to be used for a Gacha in a private deal if they get a small percentage. If you get involved with Gacha you will see many full perm items those of which are currently sold in SL.  So, again, each seller of a full perm item has a right to write their own user license in regards to how the item is used within SL.  You cannot go around "policing" full perm items in Gachas unless you know each specific user license from a full perm seller as all vary per each individual and it would take you beyond eternity to read or to know each and every full perm seller's user license.  If you know the user license, then you shouldn't have to ask this question.   

If you would like me to show you a Gacha item and a full perm item in a private IM to you, let me know because I can show you and it is done all the time.   

Thank you so much for offering to show me - that's really kind of you, but all good, totally understood re: full perm and gacha.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't "policing". I wasn't going out seeking to catch people doing stuff. I just happened to come across it. I guess my thinking was that as long as no names are mentioned, it doesn't hurt to just ask. And as everyone else has mentioned, it's not my place to do anything else about it.

[LittleMe Jewell]

22 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

Ok so both items are created by the furniture creator. Let's just say the furniture creator's brand is Toasty, and the item name is "Toasty - Cereal Bowl". Made up names for the sake of example. "Toasty - Cereal Bowl" comes with a furniture set sold by Toasty, and is also used as a prop via the scripts in said furniture. The prop has copy and transfer permissions once purchased.

An mp seller listed that exact same item, with the exact same name "Toasty - Cereal Bowl", claiming it to be a gacha item by the furniture creator Toasty, but it's not actually a gacha item. The mp seller is just selling the props that came with the furniture set.

Just report it to the "Toasty" creator.  They are the only ones that can do anything and they may or may not.

 

[FairreLilette]

26 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

Thank you so much for offering to show me - that's really kind of you, but all good, totally understood re: full perm and gacha.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't "policing". I wasn't going out seeking to catch people doing stuff. I just happened to come across it. I guess my thinking was that as long as no names are mentioned, it doesn't hurt to just ask. And as everyone else has mentioned, it's not my place to do anything else about it.

Yeah, it would be too much to get involved with everything because each user license is unique.  So I'm glad you know full perm items are used in SL if the creator doesn't say "may not be used for Gacha".  Using or not using for Gacha is up to each full perm seller.  

Since this is a food item though it's one of two things:  it either is the creator who licensed it, or it's not the creator and someone is using a food product (I'm gathering this is a copy/transfer food product?) then perhaps you should drop a notecard to the creator about it.  I was simply suggesting not everything rests upon your shoulders because this happens and the item usually doesn't last long.  But, you want to know something, it may not last long because of those who cared enough to report it.  So, I say report it.  

One of the best ways those who have copy/transfer food items is to write for an example:  Hamburger: May Only Be Sold By _____________ (creator name).  Since the object, the hamburger, is no modify that way the hamburger item cannot be modified with a name change and will always say Hamburger: May Only Be Sold By  ___________________ (creator name).   Perhaps let the creator know of this option I am telling you so that their other "foods" will have their name and say 'may only be sold by me the creator' - it helps.  

Edited May 21, 2020 by FairreLilette

[AdminGirl]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, it would be too much to get involved with everything because each user license is unique.  So I'm glad you know full perm items are used in SL if the creator doesn't say "may not be used for Gacha".  Using or not using for Gacha is up to each full perm seller.  

Since this is a food item though it's one of two things:  it either is the creator who licensed it, or it's not the creator and someone is using a food product (I'm gathering this is a copy/transfer food product?) then perhaps you should drop a notecard to the creator about it.  I was simply suggesting not everything rests upon your shoulders because this happens and the item usually doesn't last long.  But, you want to know something, it may not last long because of those who cared enough to report it.  So, I say report it.  

One of the best ways those who have copy/transfer food items is to write for an example:  Hamburger: May Only Be Sold _____________ (creator name).  Since the object, the hamburger, is no modify that way the hamburger item cannot be modified with a name change and will always say Hamburger: May Only Be Sold ___________________ (creator name).   Perhaps let the creator know of this option I am telling you so that their other "foods" will have their name and say 'may only be sold by me the creator' - it helps.  

Thank you Fairre, that's a great idea about the name

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Evah Baxton said:

This has me thinking about stock sites where you can purchase or download royalty free meshes and textures. How does that work in SL?

It's based on the 11th commandment: "Thou shalt not get caught". Many online content providers, including the two biggest, Turbosquid and textures.com, specifically forbid content bought from them to be uploaded and uses in Second Life and they certainly don't give anybody permission to resell unmodified content from their stores. Even so, it's still very common and not only by the "small fishes" in SL commerce. I know of at least two very well known, very popular and very highly respected SL brands who are just reselling stuffz they bought from Turbosquid.

[Vivienne Schell]

7 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

It makes me think though.. if LL doesn't officially act on situations like this, then what technically makes this "wrong"? Our personal moral code or sense of good faith? I mean, what actually is stopping anyone from either selling other people's stuff, or deceiving potential customers on mp?

1. Read that:

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/intellectual-property-infringement-notification-policy

2. Hire a lawyer.

3. Let the experts deal with it.

🙂

Edited May 22, 2020 by Vivienne Schell

[Fauve Aeon]

20 hours ago, Evah Baxton said:

This has me thinking about stock sites where you can purchase or download royalty free meshes and textures. How does that work in SL? How would they ever know the original creator?

Many SL content creators also hire meshers to make their things or use downloaded meshes and lots of people use 3rd party textures, where do you draw the line?

[Evah Baxton]

4 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

Many SL content creators also hire meshers to make their things or use downloaded meshes and lots of people use 3rd party textures, where do you draw the line?

The line is probably drawn during litigation.  I think Vivienne Schell said it best:

16 hours ago, Vivienne Schell said:

2. Hire a lawyer.

3. Let the experts deal with it.

Of course, make sure you know the royalty / usage terms and draw up contracts with the people that you hire.

I suppose if you choose to use legally obtained stock textures and meshes, expect to have to deal with some complaints.

The point I was trying to get to was that you might find content being sold by different creators that is exactly the same. It might be perfectly legal.