Current Popular Body Parts

[Nikole Messmer]

Have been away from SL for a bit. What's the best or most popular right now for heads and bodies? What exciting newness have I missed?

[Talula Shippe]

Bodies:

Maitreya Lara, Belleza (Freya I would say is most popular, but all three get pretty good coverage), Meshbody Legacy.  I would say Slink Physique/Hourglass is on the decline but others might disagree.

Heads:

Catwa, Lelutka, and Genus Project seem to be dominating but with heads I always suggest trying demos from as many creators as possible, because you never know which look you prefer for a very personal choice.  Great makers include LOGO and LAQ as well.  

Welcome back!

[Nalates Urriah]

Slink Redux is the only body I know of that has been completely rebuilt for Bakes On Mesh.

[Nikole Messmer]

oh I've seen bakes on mesh mentioned. is that a new function for mesh things, like bento?

[Amanda Dallin]

Bake on Mesh (BoM) is a new function that lets mesh bodies act like the old system bodies and wear layers like we used too. 

As Nalates said, of the major mesh body makers, only Slink with Redux has truly adopted it.  Some have partially adopted it.  There are some smaller niche bodies like Ruth Too that have BoM too.  

I'm seriously considering getting Redux so I can have the less complex body. Maitreya is dropping the ball here.

[Nikole Messmer]

Hmm. I've had Maitreya for like 4 years and I see not much has changed with it, which is a real shame. My avatar is out of date now, so now maybe I'll look into that Redux body. Funny how Slink was the first for mesh hands/feets and now it seems they're first with this BoM thing. 

 

What about heads? Is everyone on board with it in the head world? I have a Catwa now, but it's an older model of course so I'll be in the market for another of those as well.

[Fauve Aeon]

Heads, Genus...lots of makeups etc. for them recently...then the 2 newest Lelutka models, which are currently on discount so ofc that plus ‘new’ will make them ‘popular’. Lots of people still wear the first gen bento heads, but I don’t see many of the static heads mesh around much anymore. 

[Nalates Urriah]

19 hours ago, Nikole Messmer said:

What about heads? Is everyone on board with it in the head world? I have a Catwa now, but it's an older model of course so I'll be in the market for another of those as well.

Heads are a different case. Some are on board for BoM and some aren't. I'm not a big fan of BoM for heads. I want the onion skin heads where I can put BoM on the skin layer and use appliers for the makeup. That way I can have very fine control of the makeup. I can adjust transparency of makeup by a single percent. To do that with system layer makeup I would need 100 layers because there is no transparency adjustment/slider.

So far it seems that is the case for most people. I think the designers haven't really decided. I haven't talked to Siddean (Slink) about what she is planning for her new heads. I think she did a great job with the Redux body. Redux has way fewer polygons, textures, and scripts. 

Also, there are no materials for BoM. So making glossy lipstick with system layers takes us back to the days of painting in the reflections (highlights) which of course never move. With the onion skin heads I can still have a materials glossy and textured lipstick that highlights using the scene lighting (moves).

To a degree we can use materials on a BoM body and/or head. But, it gets tricky. We could do shiny water drops but to add shiny lipstick gets complicated. Onion skin heads simplify that materials thing and allow multiple materials on the head.

The challenge with a single mesh with multiple things (skin, tats, etc.) baking into it is we have to figure out how to bake the materials in. There is no good way in the industry to do that, much less a simple way that would make sense to most SL users. Since we can only put one material on at a time we are limited. Way too much I think. So, I'll take a head that has a skin-BoM layer and still has the tats, makeup, and other layers (hair tat, eyeshadow, eyeliner, blush...). I can control all those and turn them on and off as I need.

But, I'll be curious to see what Slink comes out with.

Also, there is ARCTan in our future, the new ACI/ARC. I expect it to make a serious dent in the onion skin heads and bodies. We will start to see the realistic, or at least 'a more realistic' value for avatar render cost that those bodies and heads incur. The cost of my Physique Original now versus my Redux Original pushes me to go with Redux. WAY lower ACI, body and HUD, and script load without any significant loss of appearance or features. Will the same happen with the new Slink heads? I'll have to wait and see, but I doubt it.

[Nikole Messmer]

Interesting. For me, I don't really have a need for much layering on my body. Honestly, just skin and tattoos there. but the head was always something I wished for more layering ability with respect to skin + makeup + tattoo/decoration. I think I might just keep my parts the way they are for now until things progress some more. Seems this BoM function is still really new.

[MoiraKathleen]

6 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I'll be curious to see what Slink comes out with.

Slink came out with a bento BOM head (the Slink Visage line just after the Redux body was introduced).  I wear the Slink Visage Amelia head, and as far as I can tell there are no onion-skins on it.

However, there was a Slink Omega Bridge in the package with the head, and according to the included NC's, the Slink Omega Bridge can be used for Materials or Nail Polish.  Further information on another included NC states this only works for materials for the head.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

On 1/11/2020 at 8:20 PM, Talula Shippe said:

I would say Slink Physique/Hourglass is on the decline but others might disagree.

 

On 1/11/2020 at 9:02 PM, Amanda Dallin said:

I'm seriously considering getting Redux so I can have the less complex body. Maitreya is dropping the ball here.

 

6 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The cost of my Physique Original now versus my Redux Original pushes me to go with Redux. WAY lower ACI, body and HUD, and script load without any significant loss of appearance or features.

Talula is right about the old Slink Physique anyway: it's increasingly and very noticeably not being supported by a lot of designers. (HG, on the other hand, still seems to be about as strong as Freya).

I'm very much hoping that things start to turn around for Physique with the new Redux. Not because I'm an uncritical fangirl: I had a number of complaints about the old Physique. But the Redux is really very nice.

But more to the point, I think it's terribly unhealthy to have the market so utterly dominated by a single body, i.e., Lara. I don't particularly wish Maitreya ill, but it really needs some more serious competition. With luck, maybe Redux can provide that.

That said, I have not yet seen a noticeable increase in the availability of clothing for Physique or Physique Redux.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

Slink came out with a bento BOM head (the Slink Visage line just after the Redux body was introduced).  I wear the Slink Visage Amelia head, and as far as I can tell there are no onion-skins on it.

How do you like it?

I like my Genus Classic a lot, but god knows how long it will take them to produce a real BOM version. There are still some older problems that they haven't got around to fixing yet.

[MoiraKathleen]

55 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

How do you like it?

I like my Genus Classic a lot, but god knows how long it will take them to produce a real BOM version. There are still some older problems that they haven't got around to fixing yet.

I like it a lot, but I probably have much simpler needs than many of you that post in the pictures threads with all kinds of makeup, tattoos, expressions, etc.   The HUD is 1 pane only (no tabs) with several sections. The HUD does come with a selection of lipstick colors, plus the ability to tint them, adjust lip colour opacity, lip gloss opacity and glossiness. It also has a selection of different eyelashes (which can also be tinted).  The HUD also has some expressions, though not as many as came with the Vista Lia head I used to wear. It also come with an 'idle' animation for the mouth which I do really like and have turned on - it's some very subtle intermittent lip movements.   There is also a section on the HUD for skin options. It has a script usage of 192, according to the Avatar Script Usage display.   And then there's the Slink Omega Bridge I mentioned above for using materials on the head (but I have not tried that out).

Most of my makeup is system layer, as I was rather late to the game in getting a mesh head to begin with, so I don't miss not being able to use appliers as I had very few to begin with.

The pictures I've posted in the 'how does your avatar look...' thread the last two months or so have all been with the Visage head and Redux body, and most all of them are taken with region default wind lights and there is no post-processing or additional 'photography' lights set up for the shots.  (I think Belinda asked once if anyone ever actually just saw something on their screen and decided to take a picture of it - and yes, that's me, lol).

-------------------------

ETA:  I just wanted to clarify that when I said my needs are simple, I said that to indicate that I have not played around using it with all the makeups, tattoos, etc., that I see others using in the picture threads, so I can't give an opinion one way or the other on how it might perform for others in those areas.  As always, trying out a demo is necessary for checking one's specific needs and usage.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by moirakathleen

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I like it a lot, but I probably have much simpler needs than many of you that post in the pictures threads with all kinds of makeup, tattoos, expressions, etc.   The HUD is 1 pane only (no tabs) with several sections. The HUD does come with a selection of lipstick colors, plus the ability to tint them, adjust lip colour opacity, lip gloss opacity and glossiness. It also has a selection of different eyelashes (which can also be tinted).  The HUD also has some expressions, though not as many as came with the Vista Lia head I used to wear. It also come with an 'idle' animation for the mouth which I do really like and have turned on - it's some very subtle intermittent lip movements.   There is also a section on the HUD for skin options. It has a script usage of 192, according to the Avatar Script Usage display.   And then there's the Slink Omega Bridge I mentioned above for using materials on the head (but I have not tried that out).

Most of my makeup is system layer, as I was rather late to the game in getting a mesh head to begin with, so I don't miss not being able to use appliers as I had very few to begin with.

The pictures I've posted in the 'how does your avatar look...' thread the last two months or so have all been with the Visage head and Redux body, and most all of them are taken with region default wind lights and there is no post-processing or additional 'photography' lights set up for the shots.  (I think Belinda asked once if anyone ever actually just saw something on their screen and decided to take a picture of it - and yes, that's me, lol).

 

Thanks!

It looks great on you. And, as Nalates said above, Slink seems to be doing a really good job adapting to BOM. I don't actually require a great deal from my head: I don't wear tattoos there, and I am pretty much a minimalist in terms of makeup. There are probably occasions when I might want to blend a lot of layers, but that's pretty rare.

Perhaps I should demo it -- although it would take a lot, to be honest, to wrench me away from my Genus. And actually, the chief thing holding me back from going full-on BOM at the moment is the fact that The Skinnery hasn't updated their old head appliers.

[steeljane42]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That said, I have not yet seen a noticeable increase in the availability of clothing for Physique or Physique Redux.

And you won't. BoM is not a killer feature people would change much (or anything) for. I'd argue that only real benefit is being able to use tattoos under clothes with alpha blended parts and/or long hair with same alpha blended parts. And many people, including myself, prefer alpha cuts through HUD, too, compared to old school alphas. So aside of method how you apply skin/layers/alphas etc and slightly lower triangles/vram usage, it's the same body. If it wasn't popular before, then being first to adapt BoM, especially in such radical way, is not going to help its popularity one bit. Physique is an old body, it was released before maitreya and belleza venus and when those two became available people started to drop the physique. If it wasn't hourglass, you probably wouldn't see slink's presence in-world at all. But hourglass has its niche.

Example of a "killer feature" would be bento, where people did rush to buy first available bento hands on the market made by Vista, while body creators were taking their time to make an update.

And no, I also don't think that slightly lower triangles/vertices/vram amount is anything most people care about. Funnily enough, I've seen a few who care, but they are totally fine wearing new hair which usually have a few styles built-in. Those sometimes reach higher values in vertices and triangles than any mesh body on the market, even more than belleza's (which are ~2.5x heavier than maitreya and many times heavier than slink). Clothing is usually a bit better, but also can reach higher values than bodies themselves and sometimes (in case of interactive clothes), they can be times more than that.

Heads and BoM is another story too. Nalates already mentioned, how having layers is way better for makeup. Transparency control is very important and gives you way better results than just on/off. Only thing I have add to it - things like HD lips for Catwa heads and now HD Lips and HD eyeshadows for Lelutka's newest lines do exist, those can't be BoM for obvious reasons (custom maps, materials, transparency) and some heads use materials based effects for better look as well. So only thing BoM does there is applies skin via baking vs applier texture and saves very negligible amount of resources. That "HD stuff" simply looks better, so we can probably expect further development of it, too.

I also don't believe one bit that ARCtan is going to kill content that was made in the last 6-7 years, it would be commercial suicide for LL if they did try to. Most likely it's just going to be an actually working complexity system, something like jellydolls 2.0. Maybe a system that calculates complexity based on triangles, vertices and vram? Which will help in a way, to see who's actually "heavy" and who is not (unlike now, where something like non bento catwa head, which can be as heavy as 3-5 modern avatars combined, has 15-25k complexity), but it's just a recommendation anyway, which you can ignore in favor of having a better look.

Edited January 13, 2020 by steeljane42

[Alwin Alcott]

On 1/12/2020 at 3:10 AM, Nikole Messmer said:

Hmm. I've had Maitreya for like 4 yearFunny how Slink was the first for mesh hands/feets and now it seems they're first with this BoM thing.

I have a Catwa

just regarding your question... seems not to have been absent for a shocking amount of time... those brands are still very commonly used.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Alwin Alcott

[Nalates Urriah]

12 hours ago, moirakathleen said:

Slink came out with a bento BOM head (the Slink Visage line just after the Redux body was introduced).  I wear the Slink Visage Amelia head, and as far as I can tell there are no onion-skins on it.

However, there was a Slink Omega Bridge in the package with the head, and according to the included NC's, the Slink Omega Bridge can be used for Materials or Nail Polish.  Further information on another included NC states this only works for materials for the head.

 

No... but sort of. Slink provided an adapter for their existing heads, the BOM applier thatmost head designers have. Slinks heads I've seen are non-Bento. I'll have to go look. The remake of the heads is sort of in the works.

12 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

 

Talula is right about the old Slink Physique anyway: it's increasingly and very noticeably not being supported by a lot of designers. (HG, on the other hand, still seems to be about as strong as Freya).

I'm very much hoping that things start to turn around for Physique with the new Redux. Not because I'm an uncritical fangirl: I had a number of complaints about the old Physique. But the Redux is really very nice.

But more to the point, I think it's terribly unhealthy to have the market so utterly dominated by a single body, i.e., Lara. I don't particularly wish Maitreya ill, but it really needs some more serious competition. With luck, maybe Redux can provide that.

That said, I have not yet seen a noticeable increase in the availability of clothing for Physique or Physique Redux.

I agree. Redux is nice. But I don't see any difference between it and Physique.

I don't understand the support for Hourglass and the lack of Original support. Once the Original version has been made the changes for Hourglass are minor and easy. Going the other way, H to O, is tricky. So, I would think most would support Original. But, maybe they don't read directions...

I am a great fan of freedom and the free market is a great expression of freedom. Voting with L$ is influential. Also, asking for what one wants. I send requests to designers now and then asking for versions made for Original. I think if we want to see it change we hard body girls have to speak up. Otherwise the big butt babes win.

9 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

And you won't. BoM is not a killer feature people would change much (or anything) for. I'd argue that only real benefit is being able to use tattoos under clothes with alpha blended parts and/or long hair with same alpha blended parts. And many people, including myself, prefer alpha cuts through HUD, too, compared to old school alphas.

True. But BOM was instituted to improve performance overall. Many have missed that point. Seems you did.

Like ACI, many ignored it and wanted to turn it off. But, overall the effect has been as intended. Most of the ACI 800k avatars have disappeared. So it worked.

I think the same will happen with BOM when ARCTan arrives, another non-killer-feature. People want to look good but performance is a factor for users too. BOM gives performance without sacrificing avatar appearance.

The old-school alpha layers are way simpler and way more flexible. I am already starting to see more alpha layers included with clothes. The 'newer' alpha cuts were a render expensive kludge to replace alpha layers, a feature missing from mesh and prims.

Alpha Cuts require designers to limit the clothes they make to a brand's cuts. Occasionally you'll run into that problem when a designer designs for one brand's cuts and then makes a version for another brand without checking the new target's cuts. I've bought a few things for my Slink Original that did work because of that. With alpha layers the designer has complete freedom and the alpha will work across all brands. Since it is easier for designers and users expect to layers adopted quickly and support for cuts to be slowly dropped.

One of the tricks with alpha layers that Slink added is the ability for the user to adjust the alpha layer, tweak the size of the alpha. We can adjust the layer for a better match something we cannot do with alpha cuts.

Enjoy the cuts while you can. I know that for now it is often a pain to switch over. I so often want to just click and fix that poke through. But, as time goes by we will see designers adopting and including alpha layers with all their stuff. If there is no alpha layer in the demo, many are not going to buy it. Plus I am making my own alpha layers for my existing non-BoM-in-mind clothes. Tedious. But, it is a one time thing for that garment and the layer can be easily used in all the outfits. Often I can design the layer to be general purpose, like my open-toe thigh-boot alpha.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Nalates Urriah
Correction

[MoiraKathleen]

1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

No... but sort of. Slink provided an adapter for their existing heads, the BOM applier thatmost head designers have. Slinks heads I've seen are non-Bento. I'll have to go look. The remake of the heads is sort of in the works.

Go take a look at the new Visage heads that were released in October (I bought mine mid-October). My understanding when they came out was that they were new heads.

From the NC that came with it:

          Welcome to the Slink Visage Mesh Head system.

         These heads are animated and use Bakes on Mesh to render skins, and other layers like hairbases, makeup, freckles, tattoos.

         They are fully compatible and seamless with the Slink Physique REDUX mesh bodies.

I did not have to use a BOM applier - my system skin showed up on it right out of the box, and I can wear system layer makeup and tattoos on it, right out of the box without having to use an applier.  I'm also able to use the shape sliders on it to change its shape.  So, to me, it seems BOM and bento, but I'm willing to be corrected if I'm not understanding something properly - I know you have a much better understanding of behind the scenes technical knowledge than I do.

[colleen Criss]

There are sooooo many mesh bodies and heads these days. Some rarely get mentioned. Try this link grab demos. And then search marketplace. Good luck in your new look  1

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 1/11/2020 at 5:31 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

Slink Redux is the only body I know of that has been completely rebuilt for Bakes On Mesh.

- This is an important point because what a lot of body/head makers are doing is telling you to use a BOM HUD or BOM button on the main HUD...

 

And that just applies BOM to one of the onion layers... which makes using BOM... pointless.

 

Some time back I noted that... it's good the body I prefer is late to all this, they get to see everyone else do it wrong first...
- people responded to me by saying "there's nothing to do wrong, you either have BOM or you don't."

 

Well now everyone EXCEPT Slink Redux HAS done it WRONG...

 

My preferred Body... Belleza... hasn't done BOM yet... they're telling people to use a HUD while we wait for... something...

I can only hope they see what everyone else did wrong... and not do it themselves...

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 1/11/2020 at 6:10 PM, Nikole Messmer said:

Hmm. I've had Maitreya for like 4 years and I see not much has changed with it, which is a real shame.

It's really hard for any body to change much. If they change how the body responds to shape dials or physics - they break all existing third party content (all clothing for example)...

All they can really do in updates or 'add or remove onion layers, alpha cuts, and scripts' and add bento or add BOM as those features came out.

BOM means a body can now get away with having NO onion layers. Ideally you would give a customer two copies of the body/head. One with all the old onion layers and BOM on the skin... and one with no onion layers. The one with onion layers being meant for the next few years of waiting on skins / tattoos to update...
- and then everytime the user used an applier on the 'onion' copy of the body, the body would tell them in chat 'consider trying the BOM-only body', a subtle nudge to get them thinking, and get them asking skin makers to do updates...

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[missyrideout]

The idea that Belleza has done it "right" so far while being one of the worst offenders for massive triangle counts is an interesting one. I admire your optimism that they will suddenly move to the forefront of optimized continent and concern for the weight of their mesh. May you prove to be right, I love the Belleza body! 

[Pussycat Catnap]

1 hour ago, missyrideout said:

The idea that Belleza has done it "right" so far while being one of the worst offenders for massive triangle counts is an interesting one.

That's actually somewhat incorrect.

Maitreya body for example appears lower - but that's because so many triangles are in the hands and feet that are separate attachments, and in the body they're split around different cuts so much. Once you add those in, as they are NOT separated out on Belleza, the two bodies are closer. I have no idea for other bodies as yet.

 

This is also an area where BOM will come in once done - if either of these bodies does it right, they will be removing a lot of triangles by removing onion layers.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Janet Voxel]

It has a massive triangle count because it has three torsos with three different clevages. No other body has that feature, pretty sure that has something to do with the triangle count, no?

I wonder why people always ignore that little fact when they start talking triangle counts.

[missyrideout]

@Pussycat Catnap Back of napkin math: Belleza in entirety = 520k triangles. Lara in entirety (body + hands x2 + feet) 221k triangles. Try it and see for yourself. Anyone interested can verify. The 2.5x heavier number that is thrown around includes all the attachments. 

Edited to add: When I think about Project ARCtan and what it would mean to me personally, were it a resounding success, my guess is about 10 FPS. I'll upgrade my system before that even happens. And unfortunately most residents are probably as self-centered (wearing Belleza constantly anyway) as I am. Sorry! 

Edited January 13, 2020 by missyrideout