Ok, so this is ridiculous

[Raevyn Addams]

1 hour ago, usagihara said:

apparently Patch has stated that if you need a refund on your premium membership you can get one.

I've been looking for this information and I can't find it. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, it's quite possible.

Needing a refund for over-payment, or using the wrong account to pay; in these instances I can understand that a refund may be more likely. But asking for a refund for a service that you're not happy with but is still in the process of being delivered (however slow it seems to the member) seems like an odd business move to me. If true I guess it may have been a move to placate those who felt cheated by the pre-SLB16 advertisements for new homes that were in fact sold out before new members signed up (or in any event there weren't that many houses available, the information that they were being slowly rolled out in time wasn't readily available either), but time has passed since then so I can't see this offer of a refund being permanently offered (if it even is).

Suggesting if people are not happy they can get a refund without proof is speculation and it's wrong to get people's hopes up, especially after they already feel burned over not getting their Linden Home in Bellisseria. That's a little like rubbing salt into the wound. But if someone can find what Patch said it might help clear things up in that regard at least?

Edited August 3, 2019 by RaeLeeH
Added a line. Time is starting to blur. Not sure I have my timeline right?

[Sparkle Bunny]

i'm guessing it was in chat on one of the two big community groups, that's where most of these announcements seem to get made. i found out from the forums so this is definitely not the first time it's been mentioned here.

[Mae Omizu]

2 hours ago, RaeLeeH said:

No. Because no promise was broken. Technically you do get what you pay for. The only promise that comes with a Premium membership is the ability to own a premium house. Nowhere is it expressly stated in black and white anywhere that you are entitled to a premium house in Bellisseria, just that you will get a house. And you will. Because there are other regions still available just not the one you (or others in this hypothetical) want. It would be different entirely if the older style homes and regions were suddenly wiped off the map overnight and there was no option available for any home at all. But they're not. They're still there. Therefore the service is available and will continue to be so into the future as the product continues to be released.

Came to say the same. No where did they promise a Bellisseria home. Any premium member can go grab a LL home right now. The issue people are having is they feel [cheated] because they want the golden egg and they want it now! Well, you are not entitled to your vision of perfection where ever that is located, and if thats what you're honestly after go buy ML and make it into your vision, or like everyone else, you'll have to wait to get into Belli. Believe me, the wait sucks. I know. Relax. I never degraded LL for my seemingly poor luck at catching a home in Belli though. Screaming "I hate LL" at the top of your lungs isnt going to help any. It's not productive. Negativity begets negativity. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Jagix Linden
Removed slur

[Sparkle Bunny]

here you go:

 

[Mae Omizu]

Also, to suggest LL give refunds because you used your premium time allotment but were unhappy because you didnt get a Belli home is ludicrous. You used the premium membership, you're not going to get refunded for the whole thing after you used it. If you paid for a year and only used a small portion and were unhappy, I could see maybe receiving a refund if you asked politely. But I didn't see anything about refunds for that in TnS. So again, you're not entitled to it. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Mae Omizu

[Raevyn Addams]

3 minutes ago, usagihara said:

here you go:

*link removed to make the thread less clunky*

Much thanks! I was dreading having to read all 24 pages so I appreciate the link. I have to agree with @Mae Omizu though; for those downgrading and getting a refund for a house they haven't yet received it feels like they're proverbially cutting off their nose to spite their face; they might be frustrated by not getting their house in Bellisseria but by downgrading membership they're all but guaranteeing they won't!

In the grand scheme if people do downgrade membership that means less people waiting for a house, which means those who are waiting will get one a tad sooner. Not exactly a win-win but if people are that frustrated or determined to prove a point then that's their prerogative too. And I apologize and stand corrected. Thanks for backing up what you said with a link. I know it's still someone else saying it and not Patch being quoted himself but if people want to contact LL support and test the theory that's on them. Thanks again.  

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Mae Omizu said:

Came to say the same. No where did they promise a Bellisseria home. Any premium member can go grab a LL home right now. The issue people are having is they feel [cheated] because they want the golden egg and they want it now! Well, you are not entitled to your vision of perfection where ever that is located, and if thats what you're honestly after go buy ML and make it into your vision, or like everyone else, you'll have to wait to get into Belli. Believe me, the wait sucks. I know. Relax. I never degraded LL for my seemingly poor luck at catching a home in Belli though. Screaming "I hate LL" at the top of your lungs isnt going to help any. It's not productive. Negativity begets negativity. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Drake1 Nightfire

[Kathlen Onyx]

16 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

We are making new, individual, unique, and continually improving regions and releasing them as fast as we can. We do not tell anyone the exact time new homes are released and we vary those times as much as possible. No one has any advanced warning or knowledge of when a release is happening, making it the absolute fairest method possible.

Actually the "fairest" way would be to submit your name and then go by date of creation.  This still means i wont get a house but at least I won't be refreshing pages for endless hours when the houses were released at 9:00am.  At least give a time frame. LL should have had known that the demand would be over the supply or LL doesn't know their customers very well.  

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, KateaSL said:

Actually the "fairest" way would be to submit your name and then go by date of creation.  This still means i wont get a house but at least I won't be refreshing pages for endless hours when the houses were released at 9:00am.  At least give a time frame. LL should have had known that the demand would be over the supply or LL doesn't know their customers very well.  

The fairest way would be to go by when you became premium. First come, first served. There is no reason a person who goes premium today should get a houseboat over someone who has been waiting weeks/months for one.

[PrudenceAnton]

On this topic.  When the new Linden homes were released, I didn't hear about it. Nor was I a premium member. Yeah, like many others I missed out on the 2 big releases.

BUT when I did discover the new Linden homes and looked up information about them, I watched some promo videos and read some adverts, I knew I wanted one.  So I signed up for a premium account.  I knew they were sold out.  I knew I would  have to wait my turn.  I knew I was guaranteed a Linden Lab home, and I also knew this was not exclusively the new Linden Lab traditional homes or houseboats.  I knew what I was getting myself into.

A person should always look into the committed, continuing purchase, you know, buyer beware:  the axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

I find it ironic that people are trying to twist the meaning of an advertisement's wording.  C'mon here, this is what advertising is all about.  To entice and interest the buyer.  So it said, "Upgrade to Premium. Your new Linden home is waiting for you."  I've also been told for years on end, I'm soon to be Publisher's Clearing House next big winner!  I didn't buy into that either.  LL did advertise the new homes, yes.  No where does it state any premium member is guaranteed these new Linden homes when they sign up.  Only that your new home is waiting for you.  Is that false advertising? Not really. It would be a new home to you.  Its clever wording.  It entices us to consider and buy.  And many of us have.

In 2010 they also advertised your new Linden home today!

We all understand the frustration of wanting one of the new Linden homes.  And yeah, no one likes feeling like they are always last in line.  Many of us who weren't aware of the 2 large releases had to wait our turn to be the next one to land a house.  Some of us waited weeks on end, with never a sighting of these new mysterious homes on the selection page. And some of us had enough foresight to ask for suggestions on how to better our chances.  Politeness goes a very long way in attaining positive feed back and encouragement.

Swallowing the bitter pill of a 'have-not', then spewing out the anger in all directions, will only isolate you from the population and leave you feeling more left out, resentful and bitter. 

Better to be a part of the community and share the positive comradery .

Invest that quarter into some patience, a sense of humor and self-humility.  Every cloud has a silver lining and even a new Linden home in the end.

Edited August 7, 2019 by PrudenceAnton

[LyricalBookworm]

1 hour ago, PrudenceAnton said:

On this topic.  When the new Linden homes were released, I didn't hear about it. Nor was I a premium member. Yeah, like many others I missed out on the 2 big releases.

BUT when I did discover the new Linden homes and looked up information about them, I watched some promo videos and read some adverts, I knew I wanted one.  So I signed up for a premium account.  I knew they were sold out.  I knew I would  have to wait my turn.  I knew I was guaranteed a Linden Lab home.  And I also knew this did not include the new Linden Lab traditional homes or houseboats.  I knew what I was getting myself into.

A person should always look into the committed, continuing purchase, you know, buyer beware:  the axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.

I find it ironic that people are trying to twist the meaning of an advertisement's wording.  C'mon here, this is what advertising is all about.  To entice and interest the buyer.  So it said, "Upgrade to Premium. Your new Linden home is waiting for you."  I've also been told for years on end, I'm soon to be Publisher's Clearing House next big winner!  I didn't buy into that either.  LL did advertise the new homes, yes.  No where does it state any premium member is guaranteed these new Linden homes when they sign up.  Only that your new home is waiting for you.  Is that false advertising? Not really. It would be a new home to you.  Its clever wording.  It entices us to consider and buy.  And many of us have.

In 2010 they also advertised your new Linden home today!

We all understand the frustration of wanting one of the new Linden homes.  And yeah, no one likes feeling like they are always last in line.  Many of us who weren't aware of the 2 large releases had to wait our turn to be the next one to land a house.  Some of us waited weeks on end, with never a sighting of these new mysterious homes on the selection page. And some of us had enough foresight to ask for suggestions on how to better our chances.  Politeness goes a very long way in attaining positive feed back and encouragement.

Swallowing the bitter pill of a 'have-not', then spewing out the anger in all directions, will only isolate you from the population and leave you feeling more left out, resentful and bitter. 

Better to be a part of the community and share the positive comradery .

Invest that quarter into some patience, a sense of humor and self-humility.  Every cloud has a silver lining and even a new Linden home in the end.

Very well said! 😊

[BeefXL]

My humble opinion:

Maybe LL should create an order form on which residents can fill out what type of home they want, either a land based home or a boat house. And maybe they could add a waiting time list so we can see where we are in line (or does this put to much pressure on LL!). But at least this way LL knows how many homes they need to build in stead of this random build how many ever and see how quick they run out. 

again just my humble opinion, this should just be a simple drag and drop kinda thing for LL.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, BeefXL said:

 this should just be a simple drag and drop kinda thing for LL.

but it isn't, every new region is handpicked, rezzed and decorated, all individual designs, adn even more types of living is comming.

You'r status says your just a few minutes old on the forums, i'd recommend to dive in the threads in this section, it might get a bit more clear.

[PrudenceAnton]

4 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

My humble opinion:

Maybe LL should create an order form on which residents can fill out what type of home they want, either a land based home or a boat house. And maybe they could add a waiting time list so we can see where we are in line (or does this put to much pressure on LL!). But at least this way LL knows how many homes they need to build in stead of this random build how many ever and see how quick they run out. 

again just my humble opinion, this should just be a simple drag and drop kinda thing for LL.

It may sound polite and reasonable, until you find yourself at the end of the waiting list.  The way LL is currently delivering the homes is the most unbiased and fair method, if not fully practical. Patch Linden and his team of other Lindens and Moles are diligently working hard to deliver premium members a much craved after commodity.

[BeefXL]

Few minutes on the forum, way longer in actual SL. As said just my humble opinion plus, once they are done landscaping a region all you have to do is drag and drop your house, some minor adjustments and that's it. 

[Raevyn Addams]

23 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

My humble opinion:

Maybe LL should create an order form on which residents can fill out what type of home they want, either a land based home or a boat house. And maybe they could add a waiting time list so we can see where we are in line (or does this put to much pressure on LL!). But at least this way LL knows how many homes they need to build in stead of this random build how many ever and see how quick they run out. 

again just my humble opinion, this should just be a simple drag and drop kinda thing for LL.

The problem with this theory is that people will (and have been) changing their minds, so someone who wants a house boat today might want a traditional tomorrow. If everyone signed up to get the style they want and theoretically never abandoned or downgraded their premium membership then there would be very few if any extra homes available for people to pick and choose. At least this way there's a degree of freedom in deciding what you like, don't like, and being able to change your mind. 

The waiting list suggestion is one that has come up innumerable times and Patch has stated why it won't happen. Beyond the fact that we should trust their judgement to stick to the method that works best for them at a creative level, it's also been repeated that to introduce a new system, ANY system, will require more time not just to initiate but to iron out the bugs etc. With patience at such a low right now I can't imagine anyone is going to be happy having to wait even longer than they already are. 

As for drag and drop it's also been repeatedly answered; the Lindens and Moles don't want to recreate Mainland with it's cookie-cutter, no-personality style. It takes time to create an entire area from scratch with land undulations, foliage, roads that align, paths, and so on, and to recreate as per altitude so that beach areas look like beach areas etc, that's not counting the community areas also being created solely for Resident's benefit!

Sharing opinions is great. It's what we all do and what the forums are here for. But I'd suggest reading up on some of the many, many topics and threads regarding the homes and perhaps gain a little more understanding from the Lindens and Moles' perspective themselves as to why things are being done the way they are. For as many people who agree on a waiting list there are just as many who don't which should highlight one vital aspect; you can't please everyone all the time.

EDIT:

10 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

Few minutes on the forum, way longer in actual SL. As said just my humble opinion plus, once they are done landscaping a region all you have to do is drag and drop your house, some minor adjustments and that's it. 

You have the option to do this already to some degree, it's called renting a parcel on Mainland.

The Linden homes provided are placed there carefully by the team so that there are no obstructions to or from the surrounding objects, plus the homes are all purposefully created to a particular theme with the added bonus of being styled using the Mailbox system. We as Residents don't drag and drop anything (except our furnishings and décor); the hard work is being done for us. There's more to this than just rezzing a few trees and roads, there are many scripts involved, not the least those in-world with objects having to communicate (mailbox to house) but also the mailbox to website/dashboard (not to mention whatever LL see on "their end") that need to be bug-free and in working order before anyone can move in.

Edited August 7, 2019 by RaeLeeH
Added and answered quote and highlighted a point that appears to have been missed.

[BeefXL]

3 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

It may sound polite and reasonable, until you find yourself at the end of the waiting list.  The way LL is currently delivering the homes is the most unbiased and fair method, if not fully practical. Patch Linden and his team of other Lindens and Moles are diligently working hard to deliver premium members a much craved after commodity.

I much rather be at the bottom of the list knowing where I am and how many ahead of me then not knowing at all, like now, and having to sit in front of the computer and refresh the browser as some actually seem to do after LL disabled the "auto refreshers".

[PrudenceAnton]

1 minute ago, BeefXL said:

Few minutes on the forum, way longer in actual SL. As said just my humble opinion plus, once they are done landscaping a region all you have to do is drag and drop your house, some minor adjustments and that's it. 

If only it was that simple, we wouldn't have the long wait to get premium members into these new Linden homes. I suggest looking some forum posts from @Abnor Mole and @Quartz Mole to see just how complex and detailed it is to develop, set up, and ready each region before its ready for release.

[PrudenceAnton]

3 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

I much rather be at the bottom of the list knowing where I am and how many ahead of me then not knowing at all, like now, and having to sit in front of the computer and refresh the browser as some actually seem to do after LL disabled the "auto refreshers".

I know its so easy to say that in the moment of feeling frustration.  But having been the child in class who's name was at the end of the alphabet and always having to be last...I didn't like it much. Even knowing when it was to be my turn, I sure did prefer the times, when they would randomly mix it up and I didn't have to always be last.

[BeefXL]

4 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

If only it was that simple, we wouldn't have the long wait to get premium members into these new Linden homes. I suggest looking some forum posts from @Abnor Mole and @Quartz Mole to see just how complex and detailed it is to develop, set up, and ready each region before its ready for release.

o well, this is just my opinion, nothing more nothing less. as you can see im not big on the forum thing. I just make photo poses, landscape, sail boats fly helicopters and that's it.

[PrudenceAnton]

3 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

o well, this is just my opinion, nothing more nothing less. as you can see im not big on the forum thing. I just make photo poses, landscape, sail boats fly helicopters and that's it.

I never posted on the forums until I started looking for a new Linden home, and I've been in SL since 2006.  There is nothing wrong with asking the questions or making suggestions and giving a humble opinion.  Its even a good thing, and how we share ideas and knowledge we've attained from talking with others.  Keep on, keeping on, Beef. 😉

[Raevyn Addams]

10 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

I much rather be at the bottom of the list knowing where I am and how many ahead of me then not knowing at all, like now, and having to sit in front of the computer and refresh the browser as some actually seem to do after LL disabled the "auto refreshers".

Also this is factually untrue; Auto Refreshers aren't disabled they are just limited to 1 refresh every minute or 10 refreshes every 10 minutes, with the ability to log out and log back in to reset so that you can refresh again. How do I know? Because right at this very minute that's what I'm doing (mine is set for 72 seconds, not 60 like the limit states). But I still see houses. Sure I'm not fast enough to grab most but the fact is the Auto Refresh system does indeed work, you just need to be lucky enough to be online when a release happens or to catch an abandoned home before anyone else does. And that's what it all boils down to; luck, until there are enough houses to go around.

[BeefXL]

1 minute ago, RaeLeeH said:

Also this is factually untrue; Auto Refreshers aren't disabled they are just limited to 1 refresh every minute or 10 refreshes every 10 minutes, with the ability to log out and log back in to reset so that you can refresh again. How do I know? Because right at this very minute that's what I'm doing (mine is set for 72 seconds, not 60 like the limit states). But I still see houses. Sure I'm not fast enough to grab most but the fact is the Auto Refresh system does indeed work, you just need to be lucky enough to be online when a release happens or to catch an abandoned home before anyone else does. And that's what it all boils down to; luck, until there are enough houses to go around.

Yes I know they aren't actually disabled, but limiting to such extent to me is the same as disabling. I didn't know Id end up having a fact checker on my butt. 😉

 

7 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

I never posted on the forums until I started looking for a new Linden home, and I've been in SL since 2006.  There is nothing wrong with asking the questions or making suggestions and giving a humble opinion.  Its even a good thing, and how we share ideas and knowledge we've attained from talking with others.  Keep on, keeping on, Beef. 😉

Thank you 🙂 maybe in 10 more years in sl ill be a level higher then newbie. ill pop by from time to time to say hello 🙂 

[Raevyn Addams]

Just now, BeefXL said:

Yes I know they aren't actually disabled, but limiting to such extent to me is the same as disabling. I didn't know Id end up having a fact checker on my butt. 😉

 

I know you didn't intend that maliciously (at least that's what I got from the winky face there) and I'm not trying to be a pain in your posterior either. The sad fact is that it takes one person to read the statement 'Auto Refreshers disabled' before a whole new thread of complaints erupt, so I'm hoping or trying to avoid that. It's not intended to be insulting or belittling but after months of riding this roller coaster through the forums I've learned just how quick some people are to respond to the slightest provocation, or to misinterpret something for fact and things snowball and escalate unnecessarily. So sometimes us fact-checkers serve a purpose, beyond just being irritating sometimes.  

[PrudenceAnton]

6 minutes ago, BeefXL said:

Yes I know they aren't actually disabled, but limiting to such extent to me is the same as disabling. I didn't know Id end up having a fact checker on my butt. 😉

 

Thank you 🙂 maybe in 10 more years in sl ill be a level higher then newbie. ill pop by from time to time to say hello 🙂 

That fact checker, @RaeLeeH has given some great advice and I've learned a lot from her and a few others here on the forums. Enough to help me finally land my new Linden home.  Gotta love peeps like her.  😉🥰

And you're welcome. Keep popping onto the forums, put in your 2 cents and say hello.  Especially when you get your own new Linden home. We ❤️ hearing those details here. 🥳