Avatars and Race

[Callum Meriman]

19 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

Lets not forget, for every black killed by a cop, several whites are also killed.

Says something about your countries gun culture more then racism. Thought comes to mind about Justine Damond an Australian lady living in Minneapolis. She heard a commotion in the laneway and called the police, the police arrived, she went to the car window to talk to them, and they shot her. The killer pleaded the shooting was self-defence and involved a reasonable use of force. She was unarmed and wearing her pyjamas when she was shot in the stomach. 

It's not racism... it's that your countries gun culture is completely out of control. To the point the even your authorities, people that should be able to be trusted, have itchy trigger fingers for everyone as well.

 

[Selene Gregoire]

3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

To the point the even your authorities, people that should be able to be trusted, have itchy trigger fingers for everyone as well.

It has more to do with their training which is more appropriate for military personnel rather than law enforcement. Police departments don't need tanks yet they buy them.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-military-surplus-equipment-rollback-local-20170828-story.html

The link is just for information to show the truth of my words. I have no desire to get into any kind of political debate.

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

I have no desire to get into any kind of political debate.

Nor me. Gun Control, like politics is a very complex issue, and I am not sure it can be rationally discussed on this forum.

Personally, I'm glad our countries leaders erased guns from our society.

[Hollie Leavitt]

1 hour ago, Phorumities said:

Perhaps you can explain how a group called Black Lives Matter can call a shooting racist when a black cop shoots a black man who refuses to put down his gun and advances on the officer. They even called for the resignation of the chief of police, who was also black.

Groups like Black Lives Matter are nothing but out of control special interest groups that really shouldn't be given the time of day.

Lets not forget, for every black killed by a cop, several whites are also killed.

That is why racism will never cease to exist.. and very sad it is (hmm.. Yoda..).

In an ideal world, we shouldn't even be differentiating between a white cop and a black cop. They should just cops. 1 black cop killed and 5 white cops killed.. should just be 6 cops were killed. 5 black cops killed and 1 white cop killed... again, 6 cops were killed.

But because racism has existed, attempts to try and rectify racism can also sometimes perpetuate it. Attempts to not be racist... and attempts to reverse racism... can all have the effect of perpetuating the differentiation of people by their race.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Hollie Leavitt
Grammar is hard

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Phorumities said:

Lets not forget, for every black killed by a cop, several whites are also killed.

Let's also not remember mischaracterized information. Deaths must be normalized to the nation's demographics. Whites outnumber blacks in the US by 5.7:1.

Here's what Snopes has to say, up to 2016...

According to Fatal Encounters, the database created by former Reno News & Review editor and journalism instructor Burghart (which tracks all deaths resulting from interactions with police), a total of 1,388 people were killed by police in 2015, 318 (23%) of them black, and 560 (40%) of them white. So roughly 23 percent of those killed by any police interaction in 2015 were black and just over 40 percent were white. According to those statistics (adjusted for racial demographics), black people had a 2.7 higher likelihood of being killed by police than whites.

The grim trend has carried over into 2016. Of the 1,034 people killed and tracked by Burghart’s Fatal Encounters database so far this year, 215 were black while 338 were white, so thus far in 2016 black Americans have been three times more likely than white people to die in interactions with police. That statistic holds for figures sent to us by Burghart compiled between Jan. 1, 2013 to Sept. 21, 2016, with suicides-by-cop removed. Burghart told us:

I think it’s pretty obvious that black people are killed at much higher rates than white people. I’m not going to say that white people are underrepresented in these numbers, since I think all people are overrepresented in this data, but it’s clear that black people are highly overrepresented.

 

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

40 minutes ago, Hollie Leavitt said:

That is why racism will never cease to exist.. and very sad it is (hmm.. Yoda..).

In an ideal world, we shouldn't even be differentiating between a white cop and a black cop. They should just cops. 1 black cop killed and 5 white cops killed.. should just be 6 cops were killed. 5 black cops killed and 1 white cop killed... again, 6 cops were killed.

But because racism has existed, attempts to try and rectify racism can also sometimes perpetuate it. Attempts to not be racist... and attempts to reverse racism... can all have the effect of perpetuating the differentiation of people by their race.

Unfortunately, skin color is an easy identifier. If the demographics in your police precinct show that the majority of violent crime is committed by people of color, it's hard to determine whether the bias your police officers will have is racial or rational.

This isn't easy stuff to parse.

[Selene Gregoire]

The forgotten minority in police shootings

https://www.lakotalaw.org/news/2017-11-21/native-lives-matter-the-overlooked-police-brutality-against-native-americans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_against_Native_Americans

[Madelaine McMasters]

4 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Says something about your countries gun culture more then racism. Thought comes to mind about Justine Damond an Australian lady living in Minneapolis. She heard a commotion in the laneway and called the police, the police arrived, she went to the car window to talk to them, and they shot her. The killer pleaded the shooting was self-defence and involved a reasonable use of force. She was unarmed and wearing her pyjamas when she was shot in the stomach. 

It's not racism... it's that your countries gun culture is completely out of control. To the point the even your authorities, people that should be able to be trusted, have itchy trigger fingers for everyone as well.

And this reminds me of a story (wish I could find it, been looking for a year) I read years ago about the introduction of tasers into the Queensland police force. In the decade prior to their introduction, Queensland had logged (and I'm working from sketchy memory here) 6-10 police shootings per year (don't know if that meant someone was hit, or simply that a weapon was fired). Queensland thought this was too high and wanted to do something about it. So, they introduced the (usually) non-lethal Taser. A decade after the introduction, the shooting rate was essentially unchanged, but the number of taser firings was north of 1000 per year and public perception of the police force had declined substantially.

The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again!

ETA: I do agree that the culture and history of the US makes gun violence a very difficult problem to solve. I may have to tattoo "We have met the enemy and he is us." on my li'l devil body.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

The forgotten minority in police shootings

https://www.lakotalaw.org/news/2017-11-21/native-lives-matter-the-overlooked-police-brutality-against-native-americans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_against_Native_Americans

This illustrates the importance of normalizing data against the prevailing demographics.

[Maryanne Solo]

Indigenous Australian art made in China - uuuggghhh. 

I have ongoing negotiations with 2 indigenous communities, (so far), with the idea of allocating copyright to creators of beautiful works that we would hope to produce in pendants & earrings in precious metals. We are far from reaching any form of agreement as it is a new-ish company, but I would look to produce these items for artists at slightly above cost price. This leaves a LOT of room for very healthy profit margins for the artists.

It is intended that these gorgeous works would be manufactured alongside my own celtic, viking & original themes with a view to enabling self sufficiency in the design and manufacturing process for the artists as time goes on.

I intend to begin all of this by offering pendants that celebrate personal achievement/s and gifting them to community members nominated by the elders. I dont even have to be there, but I would like to be   

I am only a one person company so its baby steps atmo. I can say that the elders I have discussed this with are quite receptive to ongoing talks regarding this issue.

Is this cultural appropriation? I am quite interested to hear peoples opinions.

  

 

   

Edited November 4, 2018 by Maryanne Solo

[Selene Gregoire]

36 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Indigenous Australian art made in China - uuuggghhh. 

I have ongoing negotiations with 2 indigenous communities, (so far), with the idea of allocating copyright to creators of beautiful works that we would hope to produce in pendants & earrings in precious metals. We are far from reaching any form of agreement as it is a new-ish company, but I would look to produce these items for artists at slightly above cost price. This leaves a LOT of room for very healthy profit margins for the artists.

It is intended that these gorgeous works would be manufactured alongside my own celtic, viking & original themes with a view to enabling self sufficiency in the design and manufacturing process for the artists as time goes on.

I intend to begin all of this by offering pendants that celebrate personal achievement/s and gifting them to community members nominated by the elders. I dont even have to be there, but I would like to be   

I am only a one person company so its baby steps atmo. I can say that the elders I have discussed this with are quite receptive to ongoing talks regarding this issue.

Is this cultural appropriation? I am quite interested to hear peoples opinions.

  

 

   

You are working with the elders and the artists. It is not cultural appropriation as long as you represent the items for sale as their work and not your's. In other words, if you are in the US and are in compliance with the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990, you're fine.

[Garnet Psaltery]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:08 PM, IvyLarae said:

[EDITED EFFING COMMENT]

You edited your original posting.  So what comes after looks as though it's in response to what you're saying now when it wasn't.  I can't edit my comment to reflect that since too much time has passed for me to do so.  I'm not reading this damned forum 24 hours a day!

This does not make me happy at all.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Garnet Psaltery

[Callum Meriman]

53 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Is this cultural appropriation? I am quite interested to hear peoples opinions.   

No. That is rewarding people's art. Art is meant to be enjoyed and shared. The appropriation occurs if you claim something is made by someone when it isn't.

To help spread genuine art and allow others to enjoy it can only ever be a good thing. It's the purpose of art.

[Hollie Leavitt]

3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Unfortunately, skin color is an easy identifier. If the demographics in your police precinct show that the majority of violent crime is committed by people of color, it's hard to determine whether the bias your police officers will have is racial or rational.

This isn't easy stuff to parse.

Yes... unfortunately.

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Says something about your countries gun culture more then racism.

While it may say something about our gun culture, I'd say it says a lot more about attitudes in general - a complete lack of respect for people and life these days, the insane thought process that sends someone to immediately think of shooting someone just because they got pissed off, etc....

[Klytyna]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'd say it says a lot more about attitudes in general - a complete lack of respect for people and life these days, the insane thought process that sends someone to immediately think of shooting someone just because they got pissed off, etc...

This reminds me of a store "cctv footage" video I saw ages ago on SpewTube...

Guy A, a typical Murican 2nd Amendment type is loitering in front of the beer fridges in the store, Guy B, who is shorter and weaker, and obviously very, very drunk, comes in and tries to stagger to his favorite brand of carbonated alcohol infused horse urine...

Guy A is in the way so Guy B tells him to move his ass, then getting no response he shoves Guy A.

Guy A puls out his Clot .54 Yank-Pistol, and shoots Guy B in the cheat at a range of less than 2 feet, then claims he's allowed to do this because of the 2nd Amendment, and because he's completed the paperwork and "gun skill tests" for a Concealed Carry permit, and because "I felt threatened..."

There's a lot of blather about demanding "respect" these days...

Most of the people demanding "respect", don't in fact deserve any. We should "respect" the "right" of some gun nut to act like an ass and stand in peoples way, and commit 2nd degree murder on anyone who disagrees, because, he owns a Clot .54 Yank-Pistol?

And when this tendency branches off into "race" then it gets really insane.

A while back a well known forum regular, essentially stated that RL White people from parts of the world with a radically different RL Ethnic Mix than the San Fran Bay area, were making "too many white avatars", and that a greater proportion of the noob starter avatars should be non white.

But you can guarantee, if the RL white people took the larger percentage of non-white starter avatars, as a not so subtle hint that they are supposed to make Ethnic Avatars, that the very same ethnic complainers, would then scream blue murder about denigration of their race/culture, and cultural appropriation, blah blah blah.

...

RL, I spent a fair part of my childhood growing up in a part of London where our nearest street market, for fruit & veg, and groceries etc.,  was in an area with a large ethnic population.

I grew up eating rice & peas, dumplings and Jamaican patties, and goat curry, from a takeaway van at the end of the street market, it was one of those weekly post grocery shop treats.

I can't go "home" now and walk to that catering van... Last time I was back in my "home neighbour hood" some ethnic complainer, one of those reverse racists shouted across a public street that I should "go back where I came from...".

I recognised the a-hole... We'd been in the same class at the local primary school together... His family lived in the next street to mine.

...

To the OP...

Wear a white avatar, and they will b*tch at you, wear an ethic avatar and they will b*tch at you, it's a no-win situation, so just tell em to go fornicate themselves rectally with a chainsaw, and wear what you damn well please...

Welcome to SecondLife...
 

[Maryanne Solo]

Thank you Selene & Callum for your comments.

Especially for the wiki link to the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990. (USA).  

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Maryanne Solo

[AyelaNewLife]

7 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Let's also not remember mischaracterized information. Deaths must be normalized to the nation's demographics. Whites outnumber blacks in the US by 5.7:1.

Here's what Snopes has to say, up to 2016...

According to Fatal Encounters, the database created by former Reno News & Review editor and journalism instructor Burghart (which tracks all deaths resulting from interactions with police), a total of 1,388 people were killed by police in 2015, 318 (23%) of them black, and 560 (40%) of them white. So roughly 23 percent of those killed by any police interaction in 2015 were black and just over 40 percent were white. According to those statistics (adjusted for racial demographics), black people had a 2.7 higher likelihood of being killed by police than whites.

The grim trend has carried over into 2016. Of the 1,034 people killed and tracked by Burghart’s Fatal Encounters database so far this year, 215 were black while 338 were white, so thus far in 2016 black Americans have been three times more likely than white people to die in interactions with police. That statistic holds for figures sent to us by Burghart compiled between Jan. 1, 2013 to Sept. 21, 2016, with suicides-by-cop removed. 

Simply normalizing to a single demographic, blind of all other factors, still produces very misleading figures. Normalize to socio-economic class, or by proportion with an existing criminal record, or by single-parent households, or any major factor that reflects nurture rather than nature, and the gap shrinks dramatically. 

That gap is still not 0. But it's a hell of a lot smaller than 3x as likely.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Simply normalizing to a single demographic, blind of all other factors, still produces very misleading figures. Normalize to socio-economic class, or by proportion with an existing criminal record, or by single-parent households, or any major factor that reflects nurture rather than nature, and the gap shrinks dramatically. 

That gap is still not 0. But it's a hell of a lot smaller than 3x as likely.

Don’t those figures (more white killed than black) ignore the possibility that if there are a lot more white people than black (a “minority”) - black people are more likely to get killed as a percentage of the black population..

[AyelaNewLife]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Don’t those figures (more white killed than black) ignore the possibility that if there are a lot more white people than black (a “minority”) - black people are more likely to get killed as a percentage of the black population..

Yes. That's what the post I quoted is saying. My point is that those stats don't go far enough.

It's correlation vs causation stuff. Saying "black people are 3x as likely to be shot by the police as white people" is NOT the same as saying that but adding "because they are black" on the end - which is how those stats are often used, by the statistically illiterate or politically motivated. There's far more factors involved.

As an (incomplete) example:

• You are more likely to be shot by the police if you're a suspect in a crime.
• You are more likely to be a suspect of a crime if you have an existing criminal record.
• You're more likely to have an existing criminal record if you live and grew up in a deprived area.
• You're more likely to live and have grown up in a deprived area if you're black than white.
• Therefore you're more likely to get shot by the police if you're black; but not necessarily because you are black.

Not a perfect example, but it shows the logic train needed. If you were to adjust the stats I quoted for each factor, with each one the difference in likelihood of being shot decreases massively. But not entirely. You are still more likely to be shot by the police in America purely because you are black. Just not 3x; that's an incomplete and misleading statistic.

[Love Zhaoying]

25 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Yes. That's what the post I quoted is saying. My point is that those stats don't go far enough.

It's correlation vs causation stuff. Saying "black people are 3x as likely to be shot by the police as white people" is NOT the same as saying that but adding "because they are black" on the end - which is how those stats are often used, by the statistically illiterate or politically motivated. There's far more factors involved.

As an (incomplete) example:

• You are more likely to be shot by the police if you're a suspect in a crime.
• You are more likely to be a suspect of a crime if you have an existing criminal record.
• You're more likely to have an existing criminal record if you live and grew up in a deprived area.
• You're more likely to live and have grown up in a deprived area if you're black than white.
• Therefore you're more likely to get shot by the police if you're black; but not necessarily because you are black.

Not a perfect example, but it shows the logic train needed. If you were to adjust the stats I quoted for each factor, with each one the difference in likelihood of being shot decreases massively. But not entirely. You are still more likely to be shot by the police in America purely because you are black. Just not 3x; that's an incomplete and misleading statistic.

Recent examples, police officers admitted they were afraid, as their excuse for using deadly force. Apparently, they are more afraid of black people.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, AyelaNewLife said:

According to those statistics (adjusted for racial demographics), black people had a 2.7 higher likelihood of being killed by police than whites.

I missed that bit.

[Talligurl]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Apparently, they are more afraid of black people.

Not necessarily, it may be that it is more likely for black people to be in situations that cause officers to be afraid. 

[Akane Nacht]

10 hours ago, Hollie Leavitt said:

Almost all souvenir/tourist stores in Straya sell Aboriginal themed items and artwork. But I think what Nalates said about the importance of why is very pertinent.. as I believe in most cases, the intent isn't to exploit their culture for self gain (if it is, then that's just wrong). You would find that more often than not, the intent at its very core is to recognize the original owners of this land and to express their continual relevance to this country. If all the stores were to stop selling such items, that could then be criticized for excluding or dismissing the indigenous from representation of Australia. And even without the actual intent being considered (after all, most of these shop owners are just trying to run a business, trying to bring food to the table), the inclusion of Aboriginal culture in the stores would not be second guessed.. it just wouldn't.. because this is what Australia is, all its history, its culture, its story. Mind you, a lot of these stores are owned by people of other minority groups... disallowing white people from selling the same things might also be in itself racist.

Thanks for that additional info. My comment was more about the last paragraph in that linked website. I believe it is desirable to engage with other cultures whenever you can, and as your interests lead you, as opposed to 'it's ok under some conditions and if you're invited', which is the impression I got from it. 

[Hollie Leavitt]

16 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Thanks for that additional info. My comment was more about the last paragraph in that linked website. I believe it is desirable to engage with other cultures whenever you can, and as your interests lead you, as opposed to 'it's ok under some conditions and if you're invited', which is the impression I got from it. 

Hehe nothing was wrong with your comment in my mind. I was just trying to reference in anyone who might have been interested in the bit about Australia ?