Madelaine McMasters Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Minx Kurosawa said: Second life is about being something you are not. Creating something that doesn't exist in real life. The moment people bring in real life issues into second life it breaks the whole meaning of " create your own imagination" People come on here to get away from the stress of real life. Not run away.. take a " break" from it sorta speak. People come to SL for any number of reasons. They might come to hone interpersonal skills in a less stressful environment, and that might require addressing RL issues. People might come here to explore their themselves, and the potential for continuing that exploration in RL. And SL provides lovely tools like Teleport and mute/block/derender to make it ever so easy to avoid what you wish. It does take a little thicker skin to navigate the forums, but many people do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Snugs McMasters said: Though saying so will doubtless expose me to personal recrimination, I'd like everyone to know any rare glimpse of culture Maddy might display have been appropriated from me. uh oh... I can see the flames now... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Better ditch the human avatar then because humans do exist in real life. My point is, be whatever you want in SL just draw the line at cultural appropriation. You just read right throught that and missed the point of "being what you want to be." but ok... Edited November 3, 2018 by Minx Kurosawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Just now, Minx Kurosawa said: You just read right throught that and missed the point of "being what you want to be." What part of "be whatever you want to be" did you not comprehend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: People come to SL for any number of reasons. They might come to hone interpersonal skills in a less stressful environment, and that might require addressing RL issues. People might come here to explore their themselves, and the potential for continuing that exploration in RL. And SL provides lovely tools like Teleport and mute/block/derender to make it ever so easy to avoid what you wish. It does take a little thicker skin to navigate the forums, but many people do. 1 Yea but people coming here to rant about cultural appropriation in a virtual world is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. it's a virtual reality.. for god sake... I mean telling a white person to stop roleplaying a black person and they've been doing it for years. Do you really think they will listen? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 I am adopted, my dad used to call me Heinz 57 (Heinz 57 is a shortened form of a historical advertising slogan "57 Varieties of Pickles") Until anyone can show me my history I am not going to care too much about what people think I should be in any life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: What part of "be whatever you want to be" did you not comprehend? *facefreakinpalm* SMDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said: I am adopted, my dad used to call me Heinz 57 (Heinz 57 is a shortened form of a historical advertising slogan "57 Varieties of Pickles") Until anyone can show me my history I am not going to care too much about what people think I should be in any life. Exactly.. do what you want.. be who you wanna be. No one should be on here ranting about it. period. Your avatar.. your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Minx Kurosawa said: Yea but people coming here to rant about cultural appropriation in a virtual world is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. it's a virtual reality.. for god sake... I mean telling a white person to stop roleplaying a black person and they've been doing it for years. Do you really think they will listen? No. SL doesn't make cultural appropriation impossible because it's virtual. I could create a blatantly racist blackface avatar and rightfully earn widespread reprobation. My World, My Imagination doesn't absolve me of personal responsibility. And, I've yet to find a way to suppress ridiculous behavior, particularly my own. Edited November 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Who is ranting? I posted an informational link. What others do with it isn't on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: SL doesn't make cultural appropriation impossible because it's virtual. I could create a blatantly racist blackface avatar and rightfully earn widespread reprobation. My World, My Imagination doesn't absolve me of personal responsibility. And, I've yet to find a way to suppress ridiculous behavior, particularly that of others. Ok, now that you say that. Let me ask you this. Should store owners and creator of second life skin. Should they close their stores down because their skins are "supposedly 'culture appropriating? Because it's " supposedly" black face? or Red face? Or white face? My question is will you contact them and tell them to stop.. and will they stop? IF it's offending you on a personal level? Edited November 3, 2018 by Minx Kurosawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Minx Kurosawa said: Ok, now that you say that. Let me ask you this. Should store owners and creator of second life skin. Should they close their stores down because their skins are "supposedly 'culture appropriating? Because it's " supposedly" black face? or Red face? Or white face? My question is will you contact them and tell them to stop.. and will they stop? IF it's offending you on a personal level? Do you have examples of SL stores selling blackface avatars, or are you confusing the operation of a black avatar by a red person for being blackface, or cultural appropriation? Selling a black avatar would not be cultural appropriation. A white person operating one, with the intent to explore and understand the black perspective, while of questionable value, would also not be cultural appropriation. Being a jerk, regardless of RL or SL color, can turn virtually anything in SL into an abhorrence. ETA: Selling a true blackface avatar, intended to promote the racial stereotyping of RL blackface history, would be AR worthy. The topic of playing another race has been of perpetual interest here in the forums. Edited November 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 50 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: ...sets Ivy on fire. @IvyLarae - Now you are truly "one of the bunch" (it's just her way of showing love) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Do you have examples of SL stores selling blackface avatars, or are you confusing the operation of a black avatar by a red person for being blackface, or cultural appropriation? Selling a black avatar would not be cultural appropriation. A white person operating one, with the intent to explore and understand the black perspective, while of questionable value, would also not be cultural appropriation. Being a jerk, regardless of RL or SL color, can turn virtually anything in SL into an abhorrence. I'm thinking there are those who really do not understand or know what blackface actually means. Here's an example for those who aren't getting it. Both men are wearing blackface. Both men are white. They are pretending to be black and overly exaggerating (read belittling) the behavior of black people for the purpose of entertainment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiraKathleen Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 28 minutes ago, Minx Kurosawa said: Yea but people coming here to rant about cultural appropriation in a virtual world is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. it's a virtual reality.. for god sake... I mean telling a white person to stop roleplaying a black person and they've been doing it for years. Do you really think they will listen? No. I think you've missed the point of most of the responses here. Almost all the responses were supportive of being who you want to be in SL, regardless of whether that was the same or different from your RL heritage or race. What was brought up as something to keep in mind, as you explore and experiment with portraying other cultures or states of being, was to not go overboard portraying stereotypes, especially negative stereotypes about other races. The other thing to keep in mind is that if it is your desire to portray a racist in SL, that is your prerogative, but you have to accept the consequences that may come along with that, particularly in regards to how other react to you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 49 minutes ago, Minx Kurosawa said: If a resident wants to be a Nazi soldier from ww2 in second life.. they have that right be that. Actually, depending on exactly what is portrayed, LL has shut down Nazi stuff before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Do you have examples of SL stores selling blackface avatars, or are you confusing the operation of a black avatar by a red person for being blackface, or cultural appropriation? Selling a black avatar would not be cultural appropriation. A white person operating one, with the intent to explore and understand the black perspective, while of questionable value, would also not be cultural appropriation. Being a jerk, regardless of RL or SL color, can turn virtually anything in SL into an abhorrence. no there aren't any stores out there making derogatory avatars.. As far as i know .. " Selling a black avatar would not be cultural appropriation. A white person operating one, with the intent to explore and understand the black perspective, while of questionable value, would also not be cultural appropriation " Next question Is being a black avatar and your white RL ( not in a racial way) considered cultural appropriation? Now the reason I ask that. Because I have some friends who have dark skin avatars and they are pale skin-tone in real life. And there have been people yelling culture appropriation at them. Saying they are using "black face". Which isn't true. Edited November 3, 2018 by Minx Kurosawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyelaNewLife Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I could create a blatantly racist blackface avatar and rightfully earn widespread reprobation. You're more likely to receive sex requests than reprobation. Source: search for "black" in the Places tab. We all know it's a bunch of divorced white accountants called Derek doing that. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Minx Kurosawa said: Next question Is being a black avatar and your white RL ( not in a racial way) considered cultural appropriation? I may not have expressed myself clearly in this regard. Cultural appropriation generally involves the apparent appropriation of traditions and conventions from one culture by another of greater power, with a resulting diminution of the less powerful culture. That generally involves recognition of both cultures in the situation. If you can't discern the culture of the RL person operating the avatar, the appropriation may not be obvious, but it's still possible. I don't feel I'm on the firmest of ground in my explanation of this, but that's how I see it. And this does admit to some peril in people's honest use of avatars from other cultures for the purpose of exploration. It seems the benefits outweigh the risks there, but I've not enough SL experience to know for sure. There's a parallel discussion to be had over gender appropriation and exploration, but we're probably tired of that. ;-). Edited November 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Minx, those blackface photos above...that's how black people were made fun of in the past mainly....caricatured as dumb and only there for entertainment purposes or to serve whites. So that's why it's disrespectful to imitate that, even in a virtual world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ildiko Evergarden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I may not have expressed myself clearly in this regard. Cultural appropriation generally involves the apparent appropriation of traditions and conventions from one culture by another of greater power, with a resulting diminution of the less powerful culture. That generally involves recognition both cultures in the situation. If you can't discern the culture of the RL person operating the avatar, the appropriation may not be obvious, but it's still happening. I don't feel I'm on the firmest of ground in my explanation of this, but that's how I see it. And this does admit to some peril in people's honest use of avatars from other cultures for the purpose of exploration. It seems the benefits outweigh the risks there, but I've not enough SL experience to know for sure. Well I don't have an issue with someone who is of a different race RL using or role-paying a different race in second life. As long as they are doing it appropriately and not in a derogatory manner. As I've seen bloggers who are not the same race as the avatar skins they use in their blogs. So I don't have an issue with it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Just now, Minx Kurosawa said: Well I don't have an issue with someone who is of a different race RL using or role-paying a different race in second life. As long as they are doing it appropriately and not in a derogatory manner. As I've seen bloggers who are not the same race as the avatar skins they use in their blogs. So I don't have an issue with it. And so I think we're in agreement! ...sets you on fire. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: I’m not racist. At all. Anyone who says I am is ignorant. I think Clive is trying to say, through his untalented parody, is that these issues aren't important enough to be concerned about them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Actually, depending on exactly what is portrayed, LL has shut down Nazi stuff before. ..in part because it is illegal some places, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I’m not racist. At all. Anyone who says I am is ignorant. Ignore him, Love. He's just trying to get a rise out of folks. His posts will probably be gone soon enough - and likely him for a while also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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