SL14B Shopping Event

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, HaileeTempesta said:

The stores that LL's make the most money off of all year round get to be in the events and that is a lot of free advertising right there that small and/or new places could really use.

Actually I kind of disagree with you there :D.  True that there are some shops that seem to be always in SL's "free advertising" events (including Marketplace) and that has been talked about often here. I always assumed (just guessing) that they are some top sellers OR top advertisers (or both) for The Lab. Honestly if they are really good stores with great products then I have no issue with that. This was not a "new kids on the block" event -- or at least I don't think it should have been. 

But as some other folks have said, there did seem to be some lower quality merchants included and I am pretty sure that there were plenty of folks that filled in the application so among them there were likely better choices from a QUALITY point of view. Unfortunately in all events of late (not just official ones), quality seems to be one thing that isn't always being taken into account.

That is sad for me and I have watched designers leave long standing popular events simply because the venues became too  -- well less say the skill level of the creators was lower than when they joined the group. What happens then is that the shoppers who spend LOTS of money, don't go to the events because they want to see more than just a handful of well made things.  It is a sad trend. 

So I would have voted for more big name, long time, highly skilled creators than less - LOL.  This is from a shopper standpoint and for the good of the event. The new folks on the block (and we have all been there) have to put in their time. Baby steps and hard work can get them acknowledgment. I don't think it is LL's responsibility to pick out a few budding designers and give them a helping hand in a big venue like this. 

 

[R Dismantled]

1 minute ago, Chic Aeon said:

But as some other folks have said, there did seem to be some lower quality merchants included and I am pretty sure that there were plenty of folks that filled in the application so among them there were likely better choices from a QUALITY point of view. Unfortunately in all events of late (not just official ones), quality seems to be one thing that isn't always being taken into account.

I believe that the goal is to allow a fair and diverse representation of the community for the merchant and exhibitor events, with quality being a factor but not the determining factor.

This falls under the "cujus regio, cujus religio" principle of SL.

[HaileeTempesta]

I never said anything about them choosing people that can't create decent stuff, that is clearly evident from just looking at someones items before offering them a place in the event.  I to spend a lot and I mean thousands of dollars a year in SL and have since my original creation in 2007.  I am an avid event attender and I hate seeing unskilled creators being allowed to add eyesores to top events.  However, not everyone new and not all smaller stores fall into that category just because they are new and small.  I think it's LL's responsibility overall to showcase talent and creativity of large and small stores.  That small store you give a chance to could end up becoming your next top earner because of it.  Not to mention, it's just a nice thing to do.  Favoritism is just wrong.  There are plenty of small and/or newer stores that put out nice things, a lot of gems can be found.  If they are only going to pick pretty much the exact same people every event, there shouldn't be a charade of "everyone" actually having a chance.  I still don't see the problem with the idea, one small/newer store for every big name store.  The big names stores aren't the only ones that contribute to SL, just saying.

[R Dismantled]

1 minute ago, HaileeTempesta said:

I am an avid event attender and I hate seeing unskilled creators being allowed to add eyesores to top events.

I agree with this position. Bailed from SL10B organizer team and made a map or two, took a few thousand snapshots of SLB exhibit builds...

Ahhhh, my wild years.

[Xiola Linden]

This is all very helpful feedback. I will be honest - running a shopping event is no easy feat. I certainly have even more respect for those who do them on a more frequent basis. Coordination alone is a big time commitment! I can only aspire to one day put one of these together as well as some of those who have much more experience doing so than I. But I always believe Residents Do it Best. Even though I have been both a Resident and a Linden, I look to our communities to set the bar and strive towards that. So thank you to all the event coordinators, planners, and Merchants who do this on the regular at 100% plus. You rock! \m/

My philosophy for this event was to make it as incredible for our Residents as possible. Balancing that with making it easy on Merchants during one of many times in the year where the number of events is exceptional. I wanted to provide great stuff. Quality is a big one, of course! Diversity of categories is another (hair, clothing, male stuff, female stuff, furniture and decor, etc) and well known Merchants is a great asset to have to get more traffic and promotion. My hope is that if we can continue to grow the size of these events, when we have them, we can accommodate even more tastes across many more Merchants - both new and familiar. 

As this event was informed  by the feedback I received on the last one, so will too our next event be informed by this feedback. Thanks, all for just  being around so I even have such an opportunity to organize something like this. This community is such an incredible, resilient, creative, and fun community. I look forward to everything yet to come!

[Chase01]

@HaileeTempesta There are definitely newer creators to the market that show a lot of promise and I look forward to seeing what those creators develop in time. At one point or another, all of the major brands were new and some of them haven't been around for years. I disagree that it is LL's responsibility to promote them. That is the job of the creator. They are just providing a venue (an opportunity) to showcase a select number of brands and like any event there's going to be people that don't make it in. It is the nature of the beast.

I agree with @Chic Aeon that there is a value associated with those larger more established brands. They have a following and they will help to not only generate a lot of traffic, but also potential business for participants. Its the synergy that they create together that results in a popular venue. Anyone that attends events regularly knows that if you were to go to any of the smaller ones—they aren't terribly busy and if they are, the traffic isn't sustained for very long even when a few popular creators are participating. But they do serve a purpose.

I think its also important to recognize that quality is somewhat subjective and there are plenty of stores that put out product that I think are terrible for one reason or another but they are popular. Overall I think they did a good job with the mixture. Due to the size of this one and being that it is not regular—I assumed I'd see a lot of familiar stores (I did) but also discover some news ones as well (I did).

[Pussycat Catnap]

Even though SLB has been a shopping event for years... it always pretended to also be a community event. It had concerts, meetings, talks, and a general 'showing off your place and your homies' kinda vibe to it.

I'm kinda sad that all that is left this year is "buy my loot".

 

[Cindy Evanier]

@Pussycat Catnap The community event is still happening.  separate to the shopping event

http://www.slcommunitycelebration.info/

Edited June 14, 2017 by Cindy Evanier
I'm thick sometimes

[Parhelion Palou]

10 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Even though SLB has been a shopping event for years... it always pretended to also be a community event. It had concerts, meetings, talks, and a general 'showing off your place and your homies' kinda vibe to it.

I'm kinda sad that all that is left this year is "buy my loot".

 

SLB has never been a shopping event, so far as I've seen (every SLB since SL4B). It's not allowed.

From the exhibitor policies for SL14B:

"Your display at SL14B should not be commercial.

Exhibits promoting buying and selling of goods and services do not fit in with our policies and theme. Any part of an exhibit that violates this rule will be removed. While commerce is a very important part of SL, this is a party, not a mall or sales fair. No selling is allowed and no advertising will be permitted. Exception:  Giving away freebies or linking to a freebie on the Marketplace is fine."

[Tari Landar]

This is just a general reply, I suppose...and waaay longer than I thought it would be...not sorry  

I am likely in the minority on this, but I absolutely do NOT like seeing " mostly big name brands" at these kinds of events. Not because their products are not top notch(though, as someone else pointed out, quality is a subjective topic, I won't delve into that), not because they are not deserving of advertising, and not because they don't make "more money"(again, subjective) for LL.....The reality is that there is already soooo much exposure for them, that people are finding them *everywhere. It is fantastic for them, actually, more than fantastic depending on one's perspective, I suppose. But it's not fantastic for the overall community, imo.  I'm not knocking them, in the least, some of them are actually my favorite creators. In fact a couple of them I have come to know quite personally over the years, so I am a fan of their work. As someone that enjoys shopping, only to a certain degree,  I like being exposed to the little guy. I like finding that gem. I like hunting..oh boy do I like hunting. I like seeing people given a chance to get themselves out there. Isn't that how most well known brands/merchants got where they are today, coupled with all of their hard work, blood, sweat, tears and money poured into everything they do. Customers are the best advertising tool available, and events can offer customers that might otherwise not find you, or not very easily anyway. 

 I think showcasing more of "the little guy", as it were, is a much better draw to show people, especially new people(of which I saw tons at the shopping event this evening, btw) the different merchants, the different creators, and, well...different everything. Offer more diversity, you offer incentive for people to search and wander the grid more..and that's good for us all, right? 

I was talking with a woman and a gentleman I met a few months ago, and mentioned the event to. She is new-ish (under a year) to sl, while he's been here a few years. They both were complaining about seeing the same stores, quite a few of them offering the very same products, not just gifts but discounted and non-discounted products as well, that they do, or have, at other events in the last year. I saw a few other people mentioning it among themselves on a couple of the sims too, I'm guessing they were all there as little groups(hey, I do that too, lol) Neither one of them was interested in shopping at any of the bigger name stores. Why? Because...and this is a paraphrase.."been there, done that". One of the stores the gentleman was telling me is actually one of their favorite stores to shop at when looking for new clothing, but not a store they expected to see at an event advertised by Linden Lab, celebrating, as per him..."the grid as a whole diverse world where even a hobbyist can soar". Not my words, but I share his sentiment, and I understand where it comes from. They left me to my own devices after finding a couple smaller stores  and getting lms, both ignoring all of the bigger name stores, because they were looking for new places, not the same old, same old and got bored. I know, they can use search, even the mp to find new places, we all know that, but these events offer an amazing opportunity for LL, the grid as a whole, merchants and creators, and well...everyone else, lol. An amazing opportunity that is quickly lost when people start to think something's boring because they've already seen it in a million other places, lol. Not everyone has the attention span some of us do. In fact, some days I have the attention span of a grain of rice. I don't want to wander thinking deja vu constantly, I'll leave when it gets boring...and I've missed some stuff because of it, I'm sure(my fault, of course)

This isn't me knocking the event, at all(really is very well built, and runs smoothly-kudos on that), I did find a few gems, and a few creators I'd not seen yet that I can explore-and I'm grateful for that. I'm sure they'll be grateful too when more people visit their stores. I am not knocking LL, or anyone participating in the event(s), either, or anyone else that organizes them and keep them flowing smoothly. I have a massive amount of respect for folks that do that. I've organized more than one myself, I've even organized rl events very similar to these, and it is definitely NOT easy(way harder in rl btw...I don't recommend it, despite the fact that I have a major rl event coming up soon)  You can't please everyone, even some of the time, much less most or all. But trust me, LL, and anyone else that sets up events...there are probably a lot more people that want to see diversity not just in content type but in merchants as well, than there are those that go just to find big names. I, personally, really like the "one big, one small" theory and think that it, from personal experience, does offer far better exposure for the grid and diversity in general, than "let's showcase the same big name brands because they applied" approach, lol. For me, it wouldn't matter if someone made me $1k, or $1, big merchant or small merchant, *I* would, and have, offer/ed them all the same, balanced, opportunities. 

I'm looking forward to other events for the SL14B, but if SL15B, or whatever they call it next year, offers the same kind of shopping experience, with mostly bigger branded or well known brands...I don't think I'll attend that part of it, just the rest of the celebration(s). It's just boring, for me, like going to the same store alllllll the time, never venturing out of my comfort zone. I like my comfort zone, don't get me wrong, I have my fav brands, and I like seeing them get exposure too...but not unbalanced exposure...I'd never find gems if I did that, lol. I participate in some of the hunts and events specifically *because they offer more chances for the little guy, those gems I didn't know about, those merchants I've never seen. It's pretty cool...

Ok I'll shut up...just offering my  tree fitty  

 

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

I'm looking forward to other events for the SL14B, but if SL15B, or whatever they call it next year, offers the same kind of shopping experience, with mostly bigger branded or well known brands...I don't think I'll attend that part of it, just the rest of the celebration(s). It's just boring, for me, like going to the same store alllllll the time, never venturing out of my comfort zone. I like my comfort zone, don't get me wrong, I have my fav brands, and I like seeing them get exposure too...but not unbalanced exposure...I'd never find gems if I did that, lol. I participate in some of the hunts and events specifically *because they offer more chances for the little guy, those gems I didn't know about, those merchants I've never seen. It's pretty cool...

Ok I'll shut up...just offering my  tree fitty  

 

Have you ever wondered why some media critics make "best of the year" lists that feature things that the general public didn't go to see, and often ignore the really popular things? It's because they read/watch/listen to so much in those fields that the popular type of thing is boring for them because they experience it so much, and they're attracted to things that aren't what they usually see.

Now here's an interesting thing... If you go back a few years later and look at those lists, a lot of the time the "undiscovered gems" are forgotten and the popular things that they ignored magically are considered to be more significant than they were at the time even by those critics. Because: "new" and "good" are independent variables. Just because something's unique doesn't mean it has any inherent, lasting value; just because something's popular doesn't automatically mean it's trite.

I found the mix of things at the shopping event to be pretty good, especially because some of the merchants were somewhat of a niche market. The fact that they'd be well known and possibly boring in that part of the market isn't a problem for someone who isn't normally exposed to that niche. If you pick things to largely to excite the jaded you may end up alienating more casual people.

 

 

[Zennessa]

On 6/7/2017 at 10:05 AM, Chic Aeon said:

 It is questionable how much SHOPPING is actually taking place, but there is that brand recognition thing and that is always good. 

I've been there a few times so far and in addition to receiving the gifts I've spent hundreds (or more) at each trip. But I'm sure there are plenty going for just the free gifts.

 

[Tari Landar]

5 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Have you ever wondered why some media critics make "best of the year" lists that feature things that the general public didn't go to see, and often ignore the really popular things? It's because they read/watch/listen to so much in those fields that the popular type of thing is boring for them because they experience it so much, and they're attracted to things that aren't what they usually see.

Now here's an interesting thing... If you go back a few years later and look at those lists, a lot of the time the "undiscovered gems" are forgotten and the popular things that they ignored magically are considered to be more significant than they were at the time even by those critics. Because: "new" and "good" are independent variables. Just because something's unique doesn't mean it has any inherent, lasting value; just because something's popular doesn't automatically mean it's trite.

I found the mix of things at the shopping event to be pretty good, especially because some of the merchants were somewhat of a niche market. The fact that they'd be well known and possibly boring in that part of the market isn't a problem for someone who isn't normally exposed to that niche. If you pick things to largely to excite the jaded you may end up alienating more casual people.

 

 

Oh, I've never wondered, I simply disagree with their assessments. I've also not found that a lot of the times those popular things are considered to be more magically significant either. I'm not sure what lists you're looking at, but, I just don't see what you do, lol. Trends come and go in the real world much faster than they do in sl, or so it seems at times. Barring something going horribly wrong, what is super popular today, is very likely to be super popular a year from now, in sl..in rl, that's not always the case. Hatchimals anyone? That was a fad that lasted all of less than 4 months, though some folks still like them, they aren't considered hot or popular anymore-and they never will be again. I'm not a trend follower, I'm not a "what's hot" kind of person, it's never been my style, and never will be. It is, in fact, one thing that drew me to attending numerous events, hunts, etc... over the years, because some of them are absolutely transparent in that they are NOT catering to the "what's hot", but rather..those gems I talked about, those little guys that folks might not know about just yet. Sometimes merely because little guys banding together are much better exposure overall than more popular brand names banding together(not always, just sometimes, lol). It's precisely how those "what's hot" folks, got to be hot, too though. That didn't just magically happen, even those big name brands started out as small guys no one knew about  

I think you seem to believe I think events should absolutely cater primarily to those small guys....and you'd be wrong to make that assumption(I'm not sure where the jaded thing comes form, I don't consider myself or anyone else that attends events t find new things to be jaded, lol) .  I think that events should cater to *both* equally, and that is my problem with some events, especially big ones, sponsored and put together by LL-advertised to far more people than most events will be and likely attended by a massive amount more of people than most events thanks to said advertising. There is no equally anything...and since I know I'm not alone in that feeling, I'm perfectly content in saying that I think it should be. You can't just cater to the big names, or the people that want to see the same old, same old at every event..either. That just won't work well and eventually people will stop attending events when it gets that boring. I've seen it..I've done it..and I'm not alone, lol. 

Again, I hate to reiterate but I feel I must..I am NOT knocking them, or any creator at this event..or any event..I am simply stating what, clearly, some folks want to but won't say, lol...and that is...stop focusing primarily on "what's hot", because you're going to miss out on "what's not hot today, but might pleasantly surprise you if you're willing to take a chance on a brand you don't yet know". 

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

Again, I hate to reiterate but I feel I must..I am NOT knocking them, or any creator at this event..or any event..I am simply stating what, clearly, some folks want to but won't say, lol...and that is...stop focusing primarily on "what's hot", because you're going to miss out on "what's not hot today, but might pleasantly surprise you if you're willing to take a chance on a brand you don't yet know". 

In an event like this, though, who would make the decisions on what stores to "take a chance" on?

[Tari Landar]

54 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

In an event like this, though, who would make the decisions on what stores to "take a chance" on?

Well in this case, that would be LL, in other cases, whoever is organizing the event. That's why I said I prefer the "one big, one small" theory, it creates a better balance of diversity in not just content type, but creator. They're my favorite kinds of events, even when they're lagfests, (sometimes they are, lol and sometimes I like that fun part, even if others hate it).

I also think taking that kind of approach can actually better cater to both folks looking for new gems, as well as folks looking for familiarity. 

[Chase01]

Tari, I hear you. I'd love to see more diversity of vendors from select events, but I've come to the realization that I am not going to find those "gems" at mainline events very often. Events like this one is just one of many that offer an opportunity to gain exposure for those newer or lesser known brands. If you look at it from a lesser known creator's perspective, of course that makes sense. They go to C88, UBER or any other mainline event and see the same brands and wonder why they can't be given a chance. The reality is that those events are not charities. Most are businesses. With that being said, there's a ton of events that run monthly that do cater to those groups. They may not be as popular but that option is there.

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Chase01

[Tari Landar]

I'm well aware that events are not charities, lol. Like I said, I have experience organizing and running them, both in sl and rl. I know they are, essentially, a business, even when they actually ARE charities, they still, often, function in a business-like manner.  I don't like organizing them in sl anymore, because some people are so focused on getting more well known brands that it becomes entirely commercial and that's just NOT fun for me, at all. Though, I AM a weirdo..so take that opinion with a grain of salt.

I still believe these events, events in general, do better with more diversity. That's coming from more than one perspective, not just someone that likes going to them for shopping, or freebies, etc..When people stop going to them as often and participation is down, this is the very first thing people should look at..."is there enough diversity to please the masses". I've had to adapt a particular event I coordinate with a small group of people in rl every single year. Let me rephrase that, had isn't the word we need here...We do it(adapt, make changes, and don't cater to big businesses looking for advertising, but actually cater specifically to smaller ones with less advertising opportunities) because that's how the event keeps going. It got kind of stagnate before we took it over. Participation was there, but it was definitely down from previous years. So, we decided to make it better, eliminate the same old same old, the routine, the "promote only businesses people know and for sure like..or the businesses that can pay the most to enter(as was the case for a couple of years-and it was absolutely awful for the event" aspect...and it worked. We are five years out from when we took over and this event has successfully gone from an event that could barely raise $5k to an event that, easily, raises $50k. every single year-with three of those five raising even more, last year we cleared over $70k. Participation both from a business as well as a participant or attendee perspective is at an all time high. The charities we donate to are receiving more help. But another important aspect, from an organizer point of view....people don't come away from our event with a feeling that they were bored anymore. We're clearly doing something right with our approach  

 

[Chic Aeon]

21 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

But another important aspect, from an organizer point of view....people don't come away from our event with a feeling that they were bored anymore. We're clearly doing something right with our approach  

Even though I seemed to be pretty elitist at the beginning of this thread, I do in many ways agree with your statement (not just the line I used to paste in). 

A week or so ago I even spent the morning making a sort of Pay It Forward Venue space complete with plan and rules and notecards (oh my). It was based pretty much on your concept of new folks and old folks although I weighted it more toward recognized brands as honestly that is what "most" folks want. 

Before I sent it live out into the firmament, I discarded the plan.

Why?  Because I was 90% sure that I couldn't get enough old-timers involved even though I was only going to charege $100 a month. So I DO support your position and I hope to see something happen in the future. The problem is that the folks running most of the venues are in a certain mindset. They need to pay their sim tier. They "need" to make a profit for their efforts. 

That is all well and good, but it doesn't leave room for altruism. I think many folks have forgotten about helping folks out just to help them out (not you it seems, but there is always a minority).

Anyway, here's to the future and things turning around a bit. 

There WERE some events like this in the past (well maybe six years ago?). I was not part of the process but I do remember them. 

If anyone wants my ready-made venue for this (built for a 1024 lot so about 10 land impact or so per creator) they can contact me. I am guessing it is somewhere in the depths of my currently very messy inventory :D.

 

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

I thought the gifts were pretty high quality for this sort of event, they are keepers. I just went to the household stores, they were all good.

The build by the Moles is really nice too and it's not laggy. 

[Chase01]

Tari. I can see why it may not be fun for you for to be involved in organizing an event if you aren't behind the concept. If it was something I was extremely passionate about I'd probably do the same.

The top tier events are both commercial and political (I think we can both agree on that). Those two factors contribute to the issue of diversity. What ruins it for me personally is seeing empty stalls, or an excess of space that could otherwise be utilized for guest brands. So if C88 for example was going to do something Halloween related, there are a lot of brands they could consider that specialize in that kind of product year round and would make a great addition as a guest vendor. I'd like to see some more of that done throughout the year.

I'd also believe that it is somewhat of a slippery slope from a relationship perspective at that tier of events. One major event this month started doing profit sharing from what I've heard. So the profit from each vendor is shared with the event host. While this does raises, I could also see this being a tool for diversity as well.

 

[Chic Aeon]

5 hours ago, Chase01 said:

One major event this month started doing profit sharing from what I've heard. So the profit from each vendor is shared with the event host. While this does raises, I could also see this being a tool for diversity as well.

Interesting. I know of one venue (what I would consider minor event) that has been doing this awhile.  Things are definitely shifting in the venue-events realm; you don't have to pay too much attention to see that. Some have closed, others apparently scrambling, owners being MIA for the most part. I am waiting to see what the next "big thing" will be in SL :D. Always an adventure watching. 

Since I really hate vendors and don't use them except for charity events, that would likely take me out  of the venue carnival. Good for the new folks maybe, not so good for the major brands unless the percentage taken was really small. What "I" foresee happening if more event owners go the split profits route is that creators would make smaller, inexpensive items -- not putting for all that much effort and consider the event advertising rather than a profit making exercise.  Probably not all that positive in the long run. 

 

[Teagan Tobias]

I attempted to TP but got a message, your not allowed. Did not say its full or any thing like that, just, your not allowed. There were a number of sims with a dozen or so people around but I got the same message from each place I tried to TP to. That has been my SL14B experience.

I did log on with my alt (with the LL viewer) that is not Premium and she was transported at long on without even asking to go there, but because I don't use her I just logged off.

[Theresa Tennyson]

14 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said:

I attempted to TP but got a message, your not allowed. Did not say its full or any thing like that, just, your not allowed. There were a number of sims with a dozen or so people around but I got the same message from each place I tried to TP to. That has been my SL14B experience.

I did log on with my alt (with the LL viewer) that is not Premium and she was transported at long on without even asking to go there, but because I don't use her I just logged off.

Sounds like you're trying to log into the main SL14B regions that aren't open yet. This thread is about a shopping event that isn't on those regions.

[LittleMe Jewell]

32 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said:

I attempted to TP but got a message, your not allowed. Did not say its full or any thing like that, just, your not allowed. There were a number of sims with a dozen or so people around but I got the same message from each place I tried to TP to. That has been my SL14B experience.

I did log on with my alt (with the LL viewer) that is not Premium and she was transported at long on without even asking to go there, but because I don't use her I just logged off.

 

16 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Sounds like you're trying to log into the main SL14B regions that aren't open yet. This thread is about a shopping event that isn't on those regions.

As Theresa mentioned, only the shopping is open now.  Here is the blog post about it:

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Sounds like you're trying to log into the main SL14B regions that aren't open yet.

Oh, thought I missed it!