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Restoring abandoned mainland.


Qie Niangao
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I have lived in Yosu, on the large 'mainland' island continent of Jeogeot for most of my time in Second Life.  In 2007 I adopted the vacant title of Princess of Jeogeot, which is, rather oddly, non-hereditary!.  Jeogeot, like the other mainland continents, is covered by vast swathes of abandoned land, much of which has been so for years.   Most of the abandoned land has been made rough and lumpy too.

As Princess of Jeogeot, my particular interest is in Jeogeot but I'm sure the same situation applies elsewhere.  Even if there's a big resurgence in land ownership it's most unlikely that all of the abandoned land will ever find a buyer.

Mainland needs a bit of a makeover and so I think we need a new initiative by LL to create some linking highways and areas of parkland. They needen't be elaborate builds, just a bit of landscaping and planting with perhaps a few ornamental buildings.

Maybe we could use this thread to suggest new highway links or landscaped parkland.

Here's my suggestion to start the ball rolling:

On Jeogeot, a short link from the road junction on Route 10 in Nangrim region, heading south-eastwards, to link up with Route 9 in Dongyeonju region, just north of the lake tunnel.  The distance is only about one sim-width and there is continuous abandoned land for the whole route, with ample width for a highway all the way.  The road could be built with just one sim crossing. This project wouldn't take a lot of work and it would avoid huge detours for those who like to travel the Linden highways.

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Sorry to veer off-topic so early in the thread, but I spend most of my time on the Atoll continent and it's one that doesn't really lack for infrastructure -- and in support of the idea: I think the Atoll is substantially more attractive because it has that greater infrastructure density.

I find myself with prims to spare after the increase. I've been gradually using them to spruce-up the abandoned land in the area of my own land by encroaching with plants linked to roots on my own land, thus trying to add landscaping content that (I hope) will be generally regarded as an improvement over barren land.

  • Generally I label the linkset as eligible for return at any time. I mean, obviously they are anyway, but just to suggest to any neighbor that they could ask me (or Linden support) to "clear the brush" if they want.
  • I try to use only unscripted objects and alpha-masking to minimize any contribution to lag (sim- or viewer-side, respectively). Note that alpha-masking invokes Mesh LI accounting, so sculpts are rarely an option.
  • Everything should be set phantom (or "None" physics type).
  • Linksets can have elements with origins 54m apart. Once an assembly is linked-up, it's impossible to unlink an element while any part of the linkset is on somebody else's land; sometimes it's easiest to edit the linkset in a sandbox, then put it back.

This is kind of a stop-gap, and of only limited effectiveness -- for one thing, it's difficult to hide really messed-up terraforming. (I sure wish abandoned land automatically reverted to the sim's RAW shape, perhaps with a little smoothing on the edges.) Ideally there'd be some way to "adopt" adjacent abandoned land without really owning it nor paying tier -- with some way to allocate it judiciously among any interested neighbors.

I still think Mainlanders deserve a doubling of the Premium "bonus" but I can see that some would reduce their paid tier, so it's a difficult choice. (If only LL would ease some of the SL revenue burden from Land to a "transaction tax" as planned for Sansar. Not the complete change in business model, but just a rational, market-response adjustment.)

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I find myself with prims to spare after the increase. I've been gradually using them to spruce-up the abandoned land in the area of my own land by encroaching with plants linked to roots on my own land, thus trying to add landscaping content that (I hope) will be generally regarded as an improvement over barren land.

I suggest you inform Linden Lab if you do that. I did and got a very positive response. Guy Linden even apologized when he had to return a forest that extended onto a parcel he was putting up for auction.

 


Qie Niangao wrote:

I sure wish abandoned land automatically reverted to the sim's RAW shape

It is actually.

 


Qie Niangao wrote:

Ideally there'd be some way to "adopt" adjacent abandoned land without really owning it nor paying tier

I once asked for permission to add some plants on the abandoned land around my place but was told that it wasn't possible. The way I understood it, they thought it was too impractical and/or risky to give residents rezzing permissions on abandoned land. But that was a while ago and they may well see it differently now and if somebody else ask too, maybe they'll agree. I think the right thing would be to limit it to "neutral" items, mainly some vegetation and such.

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Conifer Dada wrote:

Jeogeot, like the other mainland continents, is covered by vast swathes of abandoned land, much of which has been so for years.

Sadly,  Jeogeot suffers even more from abandoned land than the other continents. I had my first ever SL land in Ddalgi almost three years ago. The area was fairly empty even back then but nothing like it is today. (I especially miss the lovely little town that used to be at Kot.) There are still lots of lovely made places along the coast but so much of the the inner areas are empty.

 


Conifer Dada wrote:

Most of the abandoned land has been made rough and lumpy too.

That's the default ground shape for most of inner Jeogeot. No idea why anybody ever thought that was a good idea, I remember the ground was really difficult to get into a usable shape.

 


Conifer Dada wrote:

On Jeogeot, a short link from the road junction on Route 10 in Nangrim region, heading south-eastwards, to link up with Route 9 in Dongyeonju region, just north of the lake tunnel.

That sounds like a very good suggestion although perhaps Nangrim-Soki or Doi-Dongyeonju would be more practical routes for such a connection. File s support case (att. Michael Linden) about it an maybe they buy it.

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At least as far Jeogeot is concerned, if LL put in a bit more infrastructure like link roads and parkland, that would make it more attractive. That might encourage more people to become Premium and buy land.  Arguably the abandoned land looks better than the mess that some landowners make, but the abandoned wasteland is a just that - waste land.  The policy of just leaving abandoned land in the hope that there might be a future land shortage is probably out of date and I think it would be worth LL using, say, 10% of it for roads and landscaped public spaces.  After all, that's what they've done on the Linden homes continents, so let's have a bit of the same on Jeogeot.

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ChinRey wrote:

Qie Niangao wrote: I sure wish abandoned land automatically reverted to the sim's RAW shape

It is actually.

That's not my experience, so maybe that's a very recent change? Just at random, the first batch of adjacent abandoned parcels I see with wildly disjoint terraforming are from April 2016, but I didn't check for any more recent.

It does seem that they (usually?) manually revert the parcel fully before putting it up for auction, although I've seen them also display the wider terraforming limits on a color sim's auction parcel.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

That's not my experience, so maybe that's a very recent change? Just at random, the first batch of adjacent abandoned parcels I see with wildly disjoint terraforming are from April 2016, but I didn't check for any more recent.

Maybe not always then, or maybe never. All the abandoned land I've bought the last 3 1/2 year was reverted to default and the bumpy ground in much of Jeogeot certainly is default, I've spent enough hours fighting that ground to know. ;)

But that may all have been a coincidence and I haven't studied every abandoned parcel on mainland of course.

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ChinRey wrote:


Conifer Dada wrote:

Jeogeot, like the other mainland continents, is covered by vast swathes of abandoned land, much of which has been so for years.


Sadly,  Jeogeot suffers even more from abandoned land than the other continents. I had my first ever SL land in Ddalgi almost three years ago. The area was fairly empty even back then but nothing like it is today. (I especially miss the lovely little town that used to be at Kot.) There are still lots of lovely made places along the coast but so much of the the inner areas are empty.


I reside in Jieut bordering the Hanja welcome centre and it does not surprise me one bit that a lot of Jeogeot that isn't road or waterside is abandoned when i first moved in, in 2009 it was a popular area the wecome center was always bustling with people the sims bordering always had occupants but with the exception me and an animation store the rest of the sim has by and large just been abandoned plots for years with the occasional plot in use for a few months occasionally i take a wander to the welcome centre and you wont see a single soul there

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Qie Niangao wrote:

ChinRey wrote:

Qie Niangao wrote: I sure wish abandoned land automatically reverted to the sim's RAW shape

It is actually.

That's not my experience, so maybe that's a very recent change? Just at random, the first batch of adjacent abandoned parcels I see with wildly disjoint terraforming are from April 2016, but I didn't check for any more recent.

It does seem that they (usually?) manually revert the parcel fully before putting it up for auction, although I've seen them also display the wider terraforming limits on a color sim's auction parcel.

The process we undertake to revert a parcel's terrain is manual and we perform it when we prepare a parcel for sale or auction.  While we are out in the regions, we will also perform general clean up, which includes the terrain reversion as well.

-Patch

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Thanks Patch, good to know!

It (almost invariably) much improves the view for neighbours when vacant land is reverted. As suggested above, some neighbours are eager to do what they can to make it more attractive, so expanding that ability somehow would be welcome, too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

A large landowner living beside me moved out, and I must say bare hillside is far superior to the mess they had, plus i was able to pick up one of their parcels to add to my own holdings.

A Linden employee came by the other day and combined all the cut up tiny parcels of abandoned land that had accumulated over time too.

:)

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I live in Eagan on the mainland and I just love it there. Some of the great swathes of snowy mainland (some of which are abandoned regions) are really attractive and one of my favourite things to do is go for a walk across them. The ONSR railway is a delight. I actually ride the trains and the pods and live next to an ONSR owned information land. The group is wonderful and really welcoming. I love seeing the trains and the pods scooting around.

I do wish the roads linked up better for driving on. The idea of being able to drive all over the mainland without constantly having to find a rezz station to get my car out again if I have stopped to look at something interesting is really appealing. 

I LOVE the idea of building parks or such on abandoned land. I would happily go out and do some landscaping or revegetation (like the green army of SL LOL) if I had permissions to, but can understand that the reality of doing so might be quite the headache for the Lindens with regards to what can be rezzed and who gets permission to do so. 

My own piece of mainland was abandoned until I found it and started building my own little homestead on it.

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I think the atoll continent for example is very well maintained by the Moles and Linden Lab and they have added a lot of roads and things.

I wish they'd upgrade their content to mesh with more animations but that's a luxury request.

But I think what you should do is file a ticket with these very specific requests. They might do them. I have occasionally seen Lindens do things like this, but you have to ask. 

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I added a few low land impact trees and some bushes on the abandoned lot next to mine with the "delete me as needed - just beautifying" object name. It looks much better, cost me a few prims. 

Personally I think that is a great idea. If the land gets put up for auction at a later date, the items can just be deleted by Lindens or by the person buying.

 

So thumbs up for that idea from me. 

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  • 4 years later...
On 1/22/2017 at 5:24 PM, ChinRey said:

a very good suggestion although perhaps Nangrim-Soki

Meanwhile there was (again?) an unbroken string of andandoned parcels (marked in purple on the "before" map below) going from Nangrim to Sokri, and a feature request to LL was created: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231165 — go take a look, maybe?

1020319976_newshortcut(Nangrim-Sokri)beforeafter.thumb.png.36308b33147b5f2f041f8afcaa9ea1fe.png

@Conifer Dada @Qie Niangao @ChinRey @Patch Linden

Edited by 4lice Cerise
ping
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7 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

please have a look at the date of the post you respond to.

I'm well aware I replied to an old post — what’s your point? It was obviously spotted by you and two others at least. The lack of support to my reply and to my JIRA ticket suggest that those three people are not interested in Mainland roads, but I’m confident many others do.

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6 minutes ago, 4lice Cerise said:

 but I’m confident many others do.

at the sideline... yes, but actual travelers? ... not even a handfull a day... like the many other connections for mainland and Belliseria. It could be offline for a week and still not be noticed. Not worth the missed tier, or even time to create it.

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

not even a handfull a day

Alwin, anyone can go to a LL road parcel and check its traffic, no need to take your word (nor mine) for it. Please do not derail the thread. I'm sure you can create a new thread where like minded people can tell each other why Mainland roads is a bad idea.

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On 2/5/2017 at 3:31 PM, Mangrovejane said:

I live in Eagan on the mainland and I just love it there. Some of the great swathes of snowy mainland (some of which are abandoned regions) are really attractive and one of my favourite things to do is go for a walk across them. The ONSR railway is a delight. I actually ride the trains and the pods and live next to an ONSR owned information land. The group is wonderful and really welcoming. I love seeing the trains and the pods scooting around.

I do wish the roads linked up better for driving on. The idea of being able to drive all over the mainland without constantly having to find a rezz station to get my car out again if I have stopped to look at something interesting is really appealing. 

I LOVE the idea of building parks or such on abandoned land. I would happily go out and do some landscaping or revegetation (like the green army of SL LOL) if I had permissions to, but can understand that the reality of doing so might be quite the headache for the Lindens with regards to what can be rezzed and who gets permission to do so. 

My own piece of mainland was abandoned until I found it and started building my own little homestead on it.

There should be a small rez zone every couple of regions in roads, rather like there is one in the corner of every region in the Blake Sea.

Lack of rez zones is the only reason I don't explore mainland by road (except when I hop into a pod)

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20 hours ago, 4lice Cerise said:

Meanwhile there was (again?) an unbroken string of andandoned parcels (marked in purple on the "before" map below) going from Nangrim to Sokri, and a feature request to LL was created: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231165 — go take a look, maybe?

1020319976_newshortcut(Nangrim-Sokri)beforeafter.thumb.png.36308b33147b5f2f041f8afcaa9ea1fe.png

@Conifer Dada @Qie Niangao @ChinRey @Patch Linden

 

Call it the Nangrim Bypass.  This would increase the probability that the now-adjacent-to-a-road abandoned land would be purchased, making Linden a few bucks.

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  • 3 weeks later...
18 hours ago, 4lice Cerise said:

Is that good news?

Maybe, but if so, it’s too late: Although on Sept.13th @Alexa Linden ticked that JIRA request from awaiting to accepted, meanwhile one of the hitherto abandoned parcels was sold to BanlinesLover Resident (not their actual account name…) so that on Sept.16th a prim forest (named "Object"…) was rezzed at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Nangrim/86/234/73 … Sad faces all around. 😞

Nagrim-58-233-73.png

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