Farewell old viewers - 9 July

[Aethelwine]

A tentative date of 9 July has been set for the roll out of SSB, on the TPV Developers mailing list.

http://secondden.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/i-told-you-so.html

Singularity seems to me to best performing viewer, with all the others lagging this last month. I hope the role out will mean I can go back to using Firestorm.

My current advice to anyone still using one of the viewers about to go obsolete, if they are experiencing lag issues would be to give singularity a try. Others have mentioned Cool Viewer but I haven't tried that.

[Ren Toxx]

A bit aggressive... even uppity, the tone of that blog article, especially considering that for many users it's not so much a question of ignoring (or not believing in) the upcoming SSB change and its consequences, but of limited options regarding a viewer change -be it due to limited hardware, too unfamiliar UI, or both.

Still, whatever it takes to make people realize they *do* need to update... and I have to agree that sooner or later you gotta give up a bit on retrocompatibility to be able to advance significantly (and God knows SL has often been accused of lagging *way* behind in technological terms).

There's another interesting blog article about this, with possible additional info: http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/sl-projects-update-25-3-nyx-linden-announces-ssba-imminent/

[Orca Flotta]

that for many users it's not so much a question of ignoring (or not believing in) the upcoming SSB change and its consequences, but of limited options regarding a viewer change -be it due to limited hardware, too unfamiliar UI, or both.

 

Weird argument, and yet so correct. When LL first introduced their DOA Viewer 2 the sceptics among us received nothing but hate and belittlement. And that V2 was a huge step backwards in regards of performance and usability. Now that only the code is changing but nothing in terms of your favourite UI we suddenly show understanding for the afraid and uninformed sceptics? Why o why? Afaik nothing will change for the users. There is nothing to fear. I guess to keep one's equipment fairly up to date isn't asked too much of the modern internet citizen, or is it?

[Dilbert Dilweg]

Sounds Like fun. Should be a "Burning of the Viewer" ceremony lol

[Orca Flotta]

Sounds Like fun. Should be a "Burning of the Viewer" ceremony lol

 

Singularity, Kool and FS users had the ceremony already weeks ago. :smileytongue: And once again V1 viewers prove how much they are advanced over all the crappy V2 and 3 teenager stuff. :matte-motes-evil:

[Trinity Yazimoto]

i will cross my fingers really strongly on july the 9th so... since my land is on a RC channel and we are always up for crazy, funny, inedite, weird, awfull, annoying (choose the word you prefer in the list) bugs... i guess the days after the 9th will be incredibly crazy, funny, inedite, weird, awfull and annoying (all at the same time perhaps)  for all this region (magnum).

im so curious to know what are the new kind of bugs we will have then...:smileywink:

[Deej Kasshiki]

Meh, whatever. As long as Henri Beauchamp keeps updating CoolVL with all the latest and greatest it's all good.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

Meh, whatever. As long as Henri Beauchamp keeps updating CoolVL with all the latest and greatest it's all good.

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I plan on first trying CoolVL when I get my PC...drum roll...most probably before July 9!  When I first joined SL and discovered the Nicholaz viewer I was never concerned about what new bugs LL would introduce with each new *ahem* upgrade to their viewer because Nicholaz could debug it overnight.  :matte-motes-smile:

Henri Beauchamp may be my new Nicholaz.

[Israel Schnute]

The new beta doesn't work, all week I've tried it.  It doesn't like to rez nearly anything. 
The old pre-CHUI junk viewer rezzes everything.

 

If the new upgrade is to not allow anything to rez and make everything grey, along with adding lots and lots of mouseclicks to what used to be simple things....

What bonehead created this?  They never answered on the other threads and ticket system when it was just CHUI but now not to have anything even rez properly. 

 

I'm going to definately need a TPV.  Something that doesn't look like version 1 since I'm also not on win3.11. 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Israel Schnute wrote:

The new beta doesn't work, all week I've tried it.  It doesn't like to rez nearly anything. 

The old pre-CHUI junk viewer rezzes everything.

 

If the new upgrade is to not allow anything to rez and make everything grey, along with adding lots and lots of mouseclicks to what used to be simple things....

What bonehead created this?  They never answered on the other threads and ticket system when it was just CHUI but now not to have anything even rez properly. 

 

I'm going to definately need a TPV.  Something that doesn't look like version 1 since I'm also not on win3.11. 

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I haven't used the official viewer after approximately my first six months (if that) in SL.  Firestorm is very popular for those who like the V3 look.  I may try it as well, but using the Phoenix interface that I prefer.

Edit: Weird errors

[TristanMercer]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

I haven't used the official viewer after approximately my first six months (if that) in SL.  Firestorm is very popular for those who like the V3 look.  I may try it as well, but using the Phoenix interface that I prefer.

Edit: Weird errors

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Czari...Firestorm with the phoenix skin mode enabled is simply awesome! Feels just like the old V1 style.

 

Here is a screen cap. Full shadows and lighting models are enabled. File is too large so I am tinypic'ing it for you.

 

Location: Boystown - BLU Nightclub

Firestorm Phoenix Skin

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

i knew i shoulda held off on that one year resubscribe this year!! \o/

oh well maybe next year hehehehe

[Czari Zenovka]

Thanks, Tristan   I'm so glad Firestorm kept a method for the Phoenix look.  LOVE/D Phoenix!!

[Hitomi Tiponi]

Please note that July 9th is stated as the 'tentative' date for the 'start' of the rollout.  This will be a gradual rollout to servers to make sure that there are no unanticipated problems.  It will also give residents the opportunity to compare the performance of their viewers between SSA enabled and disabled regions.

[Melita Magic]

So, those who want to hang onto v1 until their fingers are ripped from its corpse...what do they do? And when?

[Syo Emerald]

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Melita Magic wrote:

So, those who want to hang onto v1 until their fingers are ripped from its corpse...what do they do? And when?

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If its just the interface --> find a third party viewer that as a similar interface (such as firestorm can display the interface in phoenixstyle)

If its hardware ---> Try one of the often suggested lighter viewers, I think singularity and cool viewer are often named...but I'm not sure.

 

If all that isn't working: End of your SL.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Melita Magic wrote:

So, those who want to hang onto v1 until their fingers are ripped from its corpse...what do they do? And when?

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Presumably all changes will be announced in the Deploys for the Week thread in the Second Life Server forum, as normal, and probably elsewhere too.

So my advice to people who're really determined to hang on to the last moment is that they should follow the announcements and discussion in the SL Server Forum.

[Melita Magic]

Thank you both. Much appreciated.

It's mostly the interface in my case. Plus I have always and only used the official LL viewer and I hate to give that up. I like knowing who (sort of knowing at least) has my info, I like that they are the company, I like that they are bonded and insured or whatever, and won't close up shop tomorrow (compared to a newer viewer.)

It's strange to me that some of the newer viewers are outstripping the Lab who should have more resources (right?)

[Czari Zenovka]

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Hitomi Tiponi wrote:

Please note that July 9th is stated as the 'tentative' date for the 'start' of the rollout.  This will be a gradual rollout to servers to make sure that there are no unanticipated problems.  It will also give residents the opportunity to compare the performance of their viewers between SSA enabled and disabled regions.

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Based on past experience, I'm pretty much expecting "unanticipated problems."  I guess that would make them ancipated problems, actually.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Hitomi Tiponi wrote:

Please note that July 9th is stated as the 'tentative' date for the 'start' of the rollout.  This will be a gradual rollout to servers to make sure that there are no unanticipated problems.  It will also give residents the opportunity to compare the performance of their viewers between SSA enabled and disabled regions.

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Based on past experience, I'm pretty much expecting "unanticipated problems."  I guess that would make them ancipated problems, actually.

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Misanticipated?

[Czari Zenovka]

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Melita Magic wrote:

Thank you both. Much appreciated.

It's mostly the interface in my case. Plus I have always and only used the official LL viewer and I hate to give that up. I like knowing who (sort of knowing at least) has my info, I like that they are the company, I like that they are bonded and insured or whatever, and won't close up shop tomorrow (compared to a newer viewer.)

It's strange to me that some of the newer viewers are outstripping the Lab who should have more resources (right?)

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This has been happening since I used the former Nicholaz viewer. (Once LL went to v2, Nicholaz quit making corresponding viewers.)  I've never had any issues whatsoever in 6 years using TPVs.  The only two I have used, of course, are Nicholaz and Phoenix. (Did I mention how much I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Phoenix?)

I tried Imprudence a few years ago but it didn't play nicely with my current PC.

My recommendation, Melita, is to try the Firestorm Viewer with the Phoenix UI.  Tristan posted a screenshot so you can see it looks very much like a V1 viewer.  I know a couple of years ago Phoenix/Firestorm were the #1 and #2 used viewers in SL, followed by the official viewer and I suspect Firestorm still is in #1 position.  I do plan to check out the CoolVL viewer as well since I've heard it is a bit easier on resources.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Melita Magic wrote:

It's strange to me that some of the newer viewers are outstripping the Lab who should have more resources (right?)

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I dunno.   Nalates recently argued, very persuasively, I thought, that the recent changes to the way the Lab tests candidate viewers means that TPVs will now tend to lag behind the Official Viewer in implementing new features.    It's going to be some time, I am sure, before we see Materials in Firestorm, for example. 

[Perrie Juran]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Melita Magic wrote:

It's strange to me that some of the newer viewers are outstripping the Lab who should have more resources (right?)

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I dunno.  

Nalates recently argued

, very persuasively, I thought, that the recent changes to the way the Lab tests candidate viewers means that TPVs will now tend to lag behind the Official Viewer in implementing new features.    It's going to be some time, I am sure, before we see Materials in Firestorm, for example. 

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When the current TPV rules were announced and Oz did the Q & A with Jessica, the issue was raised about the TPV's getting earlier notice on new features.  Oz said "nope."  Jist was "we don't want to give away our plans and that an NDA with the TPV's would be hard to enforce" so they would not do it.

Maybe they were scared someone would leak the plans for Patterns?

 

[Crim Mip]

Well they certainly gave a decent heads up for SSB. LL is well aware that the majority of SL users are on TPV's. They had to get the major ones on board so SSB would be an unmitigated disaster like the rollout for mesh was. They seem to be involving the TPV developers a bit earlier in the process now. One thing this SSB rollout will do other than hopefully reducing bakefail is pretty much guarantee that everyone is on a mesh enabled viewer. I'm sure LL doesn't want to wait a year or more for people to start using materials so it's definitely in their best interest to get the code to support that into the TPV dev's hands as soon as they can. That also gives them a lot more people looking at the code for potential bugs. It's sort of win/win for everyone.

[Ren Toxx]

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Melita Magic wrote: [...] It's strange to me that some of the newer viewers are outstripping the Lab who should have more resources (right?)

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Indeed, but it's also only logical. The Lab usually concentrates on advancing the core technology of SL (mesh, multi-layers, materials, LSL functions, SSB, new kinds of layers such as tattoos, alphas, physics...) and, for almost virtually all of it, they have to make it work viewer-side and server-side; plus, the fact that they're 'the' company, just as you observed, kinda forces them to be a bit more conservative regarding new functionality and how complex it might be for the end user.

TPVs, on the other hand, can afford to focus only on viewer-side improvements (because, with very few exceptions, it wouldn't matter what they come up with, if the SL servers won't comply with it), and because many -if not most- of them are somehow more directed at advanced users who want to go beyond the official viewer's basic functionality, they can allow themselves such things as very expanded preferences (many of which are, in fact, just more accessible and visually intuitive versions of debug settings also available in the official viewe), additional control panels, integrated AOs, meta-scripting, increased UI customization, etc.

 

Plus, of course, different minds always come up with different ideas :smileywink: