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SECOND LIFE IS DYING...


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...Is what some people are saying :matte-motes-wink-tongue: (please don't hurt me...)

 

But honestly, what is your opinion on this statement? I haven't been here THAT long so I don't know much about Second Life's past population status or how much it has gone up or down but from what I've heard, it seems that Second Life never really lost it's users, but never increased it's amount of them from listening to some videos on Philip Rosedale. I think I heard something about SL becoming popular in 2007 and it was kinda of a fad that slowly dimmed leaving the passionate users and alot of unactive accounts behind. What is your opinion on this "SL is dying" statement? How are things today different from the past and where do you see SL in the years to come? I honestly believe SL has potential, I just think LL has a tough time showing it (which is ironic cause the amount of cool things you could do here are amazing and even the people I show SL agree and ask why aren't there more users). I think it has to with the steep learning curve, the system requirements it asks for, and maybe the sketchy content for some users who are offended by it. Thats my opinion on what I think is keeping SL from growing more or maybe it is slightly and I'm not realizing it. Please give your thoughts! I would happy to hear what you guys have to say about it! :matte-motes-big-grin:

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 you had it's  begining where not so many knew about it..

 

 

then it's peak at mid life..where more people learned you could make lots of money in many places and had a lot more freedoms in different areas than now..

 

and then it leveling off..where some things went away and it becoming harder to find places to make money and find the things that drew so many in while it was peaking..

 

i think what happened was..after the peak ..we ended up with more than we started with but lost a lot that were here in it's peak time....

some of those left and the rest stuck around because they found there was more to it than what came here for..

 

in other words..the first half of the life of sl was moving upwards in population..

the other half has been pretty much leveled off..

the past few years it's been pretty consistant at around 60+k logins..

where as it was growing..it would be up and down and then spike way up..

one month being 30 k logins then spike to 45k the next..then it peaking at close to 100k logins at times from what i remember..at least the upper 90k's..

 

 

if it is dying..i don't think it's in a big rush to die.. hehehehe

 

ETA: just want to add that this is not a detailed version of it's history..more like just a quicky version like skimming through a book..

it would be a 300 page thread if we looked at all the events that lead up to where they are now hehehehe

it may very well end up that many pages..

but having the flu on my 3day weekend..details are kind of blurry for me right now and the sneezing makes me want to just get this post over with  faster  hehehehe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Here we go again.  We get this kind of periodically here and have for years. I have also heard this said for years outside this forum and SL is still here, LL is still making money on it, and there are enough core users that log on several times a week, if not every day that it isn't going to go anywhere any time in the foreseeable future.

Yes it has a learning curve and it isn't for everyone but so are a lot of other things in life.  Should we close all colleges in RL just because not everyone has the ability or desire to go to college?  Should everything be dumbed down so anyone can participate?

SL will not run on a low end or very old computer that is true.  But a lot of  games that are thriving require a mid to high level system to play them. 

SL is mostly for adults and always has been.  Yes there are a few older teens here but they are restricted to G sims.  A lot of the 'sketchy content' is what sells SL to  a lot of people.  If all the sudden SL became vanilla homogenized "family friendly" world people would leave it in droves.  LL knows this and that is why they don't play morality police.   A good thing IMO.

This isn't the first time you have posted about 'sketchy' content. There are things going on in SL that I find objectionable too, but I just ignore it.   There is tons of stuff that has nothing to do with sex going on in SL.  Anyone offended by it can limit themselves to G or M rated areas if that is the environment they want. There is a large population that never goes to A rated regions and never gets involved with the sex in SL.

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Hello SLtesterL2!


Next week I'll have been a resident of SL for 8 years.  Your siren song is not original. People have been bewailing the end of Second Life ever since I joined. And if you ask some the seriously oldbie residents they'll probably confirm that the Prophets of Dewm™ have been at it since day one.. And yet here it is still chugging along.  FWIW, everything has a natural life cycle. Why worry? Enjoy it while it lasts.

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SLtesterL2 wrote:

I honestly believe SL has potential, I just think LL has a tough time showing it

LL provide the service

What SL is used for by the residents shows it's potential

SL is dying, sure thing

Some day SL will be totally dead

The only question is when?

:smileysurprised::):smileyvery-happy:

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Sl has died, is dying, and will die....for those that allow it.

For everyone else, it hasn't, it isn't and it won't, until they reach that point in their lives.

The logistics and specifics of it all cannot be universally defined, imo. Much as people try there is no one size fits all answer. People only know how they feel, what they see, what they've heard or read. We can make guesses, and we can make predictions.....Or....and this is what I prefer...we can continue on enjoying the moments we like as much as we can, not enjoying the less pleasant aspects, and generally making our sl what we want it to be in the best way(s) we know how.

That's what I've done since 2008 when I came here for good, and what I intend to do until the day I leave for good. Don't much care what others do. Their sl is theirs, mine is mine, and I really, really like mine :D

 

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Tari Landar wrote: "lt has died, is dying, and will die....for those that allow it."

Well, LL can do its part to prevent SL from dying:

1.: Act on ALL Abuse Reports in less than 2 hours.

2.: Crack down hard on griefers.

3.: Clean out and police the Welcome Areas. the depravity going on in e.g. Ahern is absolutely unacceptable.
( http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/So-out-of-sheer-fact-that-I-was-completely-bored/td-p/1950799 )

 

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Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

Tari Landar wrote: "lt has died, is dying, and will die....for those that allow it."

Well, LL can do its part to prevent SL from dying:

1.: Act on
ALL
Abuse Reports in less than 2 hours.

2.: Crack down
hard
on griefers.

3.: Clean out and police the Welcome Areas. the depravity going on in e.g. Ahern is absolutely unacceptable.

(
)

 

Sure there's lots they can do. There's lots we can do to ensure our sl is as much fun as we can possibly muster too. I never said sl didn't need improving.  I face the same kinds of issues as most other people do, have a lot of the same concerns and a lot of the same desires as far as how the lab does things. I don't have to let the things I dislike trump the things I like though. Which is what I choose to do.

Some people don't share that idea, for whatever reason. I respect that. Maybe their bads do outweigh their goods. In that case, it's probably best for them that their sl "die".

Right now, it's not best for me. I'm guessing it's probably not best for most people still here, or else they wouldn't be :)

 ...edited to fix my terrible spelling lol

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Anyone expecting the plug to be pulled on SL in the near future is mistaken.

Anyone who thinks SL is as vibrant and full of life as ever is delusional.

 

As is usually the case, the truth is more complex. Second Life is very much in its twilight days, and has been for years. The userbase is dwindling and sim ownership is dropping. Both largely do to a limited feature set and broken tools which contribute to a lackluster experience for most users.

SL can continue on like this for years, I won't be terribly shocked if SL still exists ten years from now, although I imagine there will be a reduction of the mainland long before then as LL decides to cease supporting the growing number of empty/unused sims.

 

 Linden Lab has also missed key opportunities for improving the user experience (reducing lag, increasing framerates, introducing much needed features) and I'm not sure they can recover from that, so I doubt we'll see SL improve much beyond its current state. Objectively, SL has not improved much in the past five years. SL is more stable and there's no real downtime like there was frequently in SL's first few years, but problems with the appearance and creation tools have not been addressed, LL screwed up their big opportunity to redo resource management tools (which were the only real way LL could have addressed the "lag" everyone always complains about) and mesh was introduced with glaring flaws, such as rigged mesh being incompatible with SL's own appearance system.

 

And so, in a nutshell, SL hjas peaked, but, baring the unlikely arrival of a well thought out next-gen virtual world to steal LL's lunch money, Second Life is not going anywhere any time soon.

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I agree with everything except the graphic settings and maybe the learning curve bit. Honestly, some on my friends and most people I login with IRL only get to play at least on Med if they get lucky even thought they have a fairly decent computer and still sometimes lag like mad. True about the commitment bit but why shoudn't anyone be able to use SL? Im not saying it's for everyone but shouldn't everyone have the choice to enjoy it and not be turned off by how many options and features it has and requires you to learn on your own? I mean of course you do have to do it mostly on your own, I'm just saying maybe LL can give a bit more tips other than moving your avatar and maybe add in tips or tutorials like how to unpackage a box or something like that.

 

Happy Easter BTW! :matte-motes-big-grin:

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SLtesterL2 wrote:

..
.Is what some people are saying
 :matte-motes-wink-tongue: (please don't hurt me...)

 

But honestly, what is your opinion on this statement? I haven't been here THAT long so I don't know much about Second Life's past population status or how much it has gone up or down but from what I've heard, it seems that Second Life never really lost it's users, but never increased it's amount of them from listening to some videos on Philip Rosedale. I think I heard something about SL becoming popular in 2007 and it was kinda of a fad that slowly dimmed leaving the passionate users and alot of unactive accounts behind. What is your opinion on this "SL is dying" statement? How are things today different from the past and where do you see SL in the years to come? I honestly believe SL has potential, I just think LL has a tough time showing it (which is ironic cause the amount of cool things you could do here are amazing and even the people I show SL agree and ask why aren't there more users). I think it has to with the steep learning curve, the system requirements it asks for, and maybe the sketchy content for some users who are offended by it. Thats my opinion on what I think is keeping SL from growing more or maybe it is slightly and I'm not realizing it. Please give your thoughts! I would happy to hear what you guys have to say about it! 
:matte-motes-big-grin:

Other discussions on this topic:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Will-Second-Life-still-be-around-10-years-from-now/m-p/1935987#M99248

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Second-Life-in-2014/m-p/1768165#M86960

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Yes SL is dying - very very slowly but when you look at the actual statistics its about a 4-6% drop in concurrency year on year every year for the last 4 - 5 years, its really just a question of were is the point of no return?  Will it drop to a point were it just falls off the cliff or will it go slowly kicking and screaming down to the very last person standing in an empty world.

 

Charts here: http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts/

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SLtesterL2 wrote:

I agree with everything except the graphic settings and maybe the learning curve bit. Honestly, some on my friends and most people I login with IRL only get to play at least on Med if they get lucky even thought they have a fairly decent computer and still sometimes lag like mad.

Happy Easter BTW! :matte-motes-big-grin:

I've been using low graphics settings since 2007 and have thoroughly enjoyed SL.  I think it's one of those things I may not know what I'm missing if I never had it but, at present, I'm still using low graphics and still enjoying SL. :)

Happy Easter to you as well!

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I admire you!!! :matte-motes-oh-rly:

I have tried adjusting myself to the low settings on my older computer...and couldn't. I think I'm spoiled by the amazing graphics of xbox that when I try to run low im just like..."NOPE NOPE NOPE"

:matte-motes-bashful:

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SLtesterL2 wrote:

True about the commitment bit but why shoudn't anyone be able to use SL? Im not saying it's for everyone but shouldn't everyone have the choice to enjoy it and not be turned off by how many options and features it has and requires you to learn on your own?

Shouldn't everyone have a choice to live in a luxury home and drive a luxury car?  Shouldn't everyone be able to get a PhD?  Unfortunately that isn't the way life works. 

I agree that LL could do a lot more in helping people through the learning curve.  But, consider this:  back when I joined there was a considerable orientation available for new avatars that included not only all the things you needed to know to get around SL but also some basic building and scripting information.  Most people coming into SL skipped it or large parts of it and went right to the welcome areas.  Seems most people would rather sink or swim.  LL shut it down because it wasn't being utilized.

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But isn't the world of SL a place where you can get those luxuries(not the PhD) for a dollar's worth? :matte-motes-big-grin: But I see your point, nothing is truly free and to get those things you need commitment to find out how to get them. I think that LL in the past from the way you state it did a wrong turn of how to teach the people on the basics. If people want to build, they will go out and find a class on their own to do so because they have the drive to learn the skill. However, I just thought LL should put more thought on how to pass that curve by doing simple tasks like teaching how to dress up your avatar, how to use the search bar properly, and as said before, how to open a box and properly use the contents in it. Just the basics that EVERY average avatar should learn and not just the more complex teachings for builders and scripters in the making

:matte-motes-asleep-2:.

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There is no getting around the steep learning curve (or if there is, it will take a much better teacher than I to find it). Those of us who have stayed here more than a few months have had the motivation to learn, some because we just enjoy that sort of thing, some because we were so impressed by what we saw going on around us that we wanted to be a part of it.

It's been pointed out many times in many threads that LL does not do a very good job of telling new users that they will need to spend more time than they probably planned learning how to get around. The tutorials are all there. Anyone who knows how to find Google can find them. Amethyst said that a link to tutorials was once part of the entry package but was getting skipped by new users; I have no data on that. I personally did a lot of stops and time outs to go read things. Everyone who stays here did that and even though we hate it we continue to do that (as in new viewers).

Second Life does not lead anyone by the hand. People who aren't motivated by what they find here are not going to stay, becuase nothing is easy to figure out. There's no problem with that being the case. This place isn't for everyone. I just wish there was some way to identify the qualities/preferences/inclinations of the type of people who have stayed, and advertise directly to that demographic.

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If an opinion is formed that SL is dying it might be because that individual is looking at things from an end users persprective only.

There are many games that have increasing participation from end users in terms of creatable content.

Eg: Steam workshop for Portal, Skyrim, Arma 3 & countless other titles.

Another is the upcoming Star Citizen, (space sim thingy), Train Simulator to name just 2 that concentrate mostly on end user content. This list is growing day by day.

Then we have stuff like Daz3d, Marvellous Designer, Blender etc etc.

As time goes on we also see major software manufacturers allowing functionality that assists people with creating for these worlds & games.

I came to SL to make things. It's not dying and I hope LL continues to stay at the forefront of immersion & user creation.

SL2 is completely viable as far as I am concerned. (premiums are allowed to convert/upgrade content from SL would be really really cool).

Rock on LL \o/

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

There is no getting around the steep learning curve

Much of SL's "steep learning curve" has to do with problems Linden Lab created, rather than the complexity of SL's features.

For instance, there are videogames with character creators which give the user every bit as much, if not more, creative freedom than the SL appearance editor provides...and yet are easier to use.

The SL appearance editor is extremely unfriendly and doesn't even work properly! Women need to have their arm length slider set to the highest extremes (75-100) to just have proportionate arms, and if you're taller than 6'3" or so (as most women in SL are) you just cannot have arms long enough to be proportionate to your body. Because LL made the arms max out too short! You think you're 5'5" because the height in the appearance editor tells you so? Think again! In the stock LL viewer, the height displayed is short by over half a foot! Want to change the size of your avatar? Good luck! There's no simple "scale" slider, the "height" slider squashes and stretches only part of your body, leaving you looking mishapen if you go more than an inch or two in either direction.

 And that's not even all of the issues with the appearance editor. One could literally write books on all of the issues which make SL much more difficult than it needs to be.

 

 Also, SL lacks any real tutorials. The tutorials that are out there are created by the community, and often full of incorrect information and poor examples. The new user orientation is pretty much non-existant now, with new users being tossed blind into SL.

Some people laud this lack of "handholding" because they believe that it is somehow unavoidable, inseparable from the freedom SL provides, but this isn't entirely accurate. With all of the misinformation, bad example content, and poor tutorials out ther, SL's potential becomes constricted.

 People create 7-8' tall avatars and build everything double size, which means they're eating up more land and resources with less content.

 People slap 512x512 or 1024x1024 textures on EVERYTHING, leading to rampant lag and poor framerates.

 People wind up wearing no-mod attachments loaded up with scripts, wandering around with absolutely no clue that they are responsible for much of the very lag they complain about.

 A month or so ago I spent several hours trying to find a location in SL that I had 1) knew the name of and 2) been to just the day before. I've been in SL for over 7 years and know  my way around SL Search. Yet I had to go onto Google and find it via the web. And this was a public space.

 LL could have easily sidestepped all of these problems, creating an SL that is more enjoyable and one in which it is easier for the users to let their imaginations run free. There's a lot they could implement right now that would greatly diminish that "steep learning curve" people are always talking about.

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