SECOND LIFE IS DYING...

[Willow Danube]

Sometimes, I wish for the death of SL.

I need to get back to my RL.

But Anywho... just FYI. I came to SL to build... Build an Ark I mean...

Just in case SL destruction happens, I will be able to walk my breedables into the mothership .. both kosher and non-kosher.

[Dillon Levenque]

 

 

I agree that it could have been done better from the start (just based on reading the informed opinions of people like you and doing a bit of research on my own) but it wasn't. We have what we have. I know zilch about graphics and slightly more than zilch about some of the other issues but from what I've read, short of a complete teardown and redo most of the current problems will remain.

It's true LL does not have much in the way of tutorials but there are tons of them out there. It would be almost child's play to assemble a really useful collection and put them in a logical progression. Any experienced SL user could do that in a matter of hours at most; the whole project could be completed in one day's work by one person.

I don't see how the learning curve can be avoided. Arm length? Who gave a damn about arm length? Mine are pretty close to correct now but as a new user I couldn't have cared less. It WOULD have been useful to have a pointer to a tutorial about shapes. Something that told me every avatar shape was based on the same data and that all shapes were created by moving the sliders, so if I didn't want to buy a shape I could experiment on my own. Something that maybe suggested how to get proportionally correct. Something that said, "Try this number for..." and so on. The thing is, all that info exists! In multiple places, even. All that's required is a pointer.

I don't want SL to change its fundamental properties. I love it the way it is, but it is NOT for everyone. It takes work to figure this place out. As I said in my previous post, people who will do that exist. About 50,000 of them are inworld at any given time. LL needs to find a way to show Second Life to that kind of people.

[Orca Flotta]

I'm spoiled by the amazing graphics of xbox

Oh, I see the  core of your problem. You spent valuable money on a kiddie's toy rather than upgrading the GPU on your computer. You wanna game, wannna play. Xbox and other consoles are a cheap and lazy way of consuming games. You don't need to know **bleep** about computers, you don't need to know anything really. If you had spent the money for the Xbox on a better PC you'd enjoy SL much more now.

SL is different. Or let me rephrase that: virtual worlds are different from xbox games. They are much more complex. They are WORLDS ffs! That's in the nature of every VW, no way around it. If you wanna view them in all detail splendour you need a serious computer, not an Xbox. And you need to know how to operate that machine. Logical, isn't it.

Oh, and about that steep learning curve: I'm a non-gamer, a housewife who used her 12" subnotebook 98% for writing and 2% for the occasional websurfing. That's maybe why I didn't have any problems adjusting to SL when i first entered it. I didn't change anything in the viewer (god beware) and just bumbled along. Left, right, forward, backwards ... amazing. Oooooh I can fly! Super. Okay, next step freebie shop. What am I sposed to be doing with that box? Ok, rezz it and clicker around on it. Oh here, open. Swooosh. Take into inventory? Sounds good, why not. Swooosh, wonderful new gown, skin, shape, hair ... wham bam thank you ma'am. Next step Amsterdam. Why do they have beds in the train station? And what's pink ball? Okay Orca, just clicker it. Yikes! Ok, now I know what balls are for in SL. And so it went on and on ... and on ... and on ... and is still going on today.

We learn as we go, every day, we get wiser, we get better. That's maybe why SL isn't dyying. Cause there is so much stuff to do, to explore, to learn. I'm right now on my 3rd SL machine in 6 years. Did pay quite some  money to stay fairly up to date. But I still don't have an Xbox. 

[SLtesterL2]

Or maybe you just don't know how to take a joke....by no means am I comparing SL to a game, just the graphics of one which of course doesn't make a game in a sense "better" in it's form a gameplay (which SL doesn't have I believe which is nothing which isnt wrong and some people don't like the idea of scores and such) but don't you think it would be a nice bonus for some to be upgrade from kinda blocky to beautiful? But do remember also not everything is about graphics and not everyone cares for them which I know. By the way, I bought a new laptop for my laptop for my my online games and especially SL which I know sucks for SL (didn't know about that before purchasing unfortunately...) but it was way better than my old computer which I later upgraded a lil bit after words.

[Alazarin Mondrian]

I suppose SL is 'dying' much in the same way Active Worlds is dying: no longer hip or fashionable so all the kewl kidz have moved on to the latest shiny toyz while Active Worlds / Second Life / whatever chugs along with a userbase that enables it to stay financially afloat.

[Orca Flotta]

Or maybe you just don't know how to take a joke....

Oh, I think I know how to take a joke ... when I see one. But all I read from you so far was not funny at all but complaining about stuff that is so obvious, everybody should get it, even you. For example that whining about the much better graphics on your Xbox. When I look out of my window I have perfect graphics of my garden, totally unpixelated. That doesn't compare to SL, I know. But neither did your Xbox example.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post. Excuse me, my English skills aren't on an adequate level for complex discussions. So I make it short and unpoetic now: your criticism and predictions are wrong. It's not SL failing you, you are failing SL!

[SLtesterL2]

I believe you are misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not stating SL is dying, I'm merely asking what the users think about this statement and the future of SL in their opinions. Im also stating mine on what SL should do for the better in MY opinion meaning it doesn't have to change yours since everyone is entitled to their own. Also if I am or if I sound like I'm "complaining" then I'm doing it as much as you make your rude comments. Ever heard of the phrase "If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all"? Don't twist my words. I'm done with you.

[Tex Monday]

I was actually looking for a spot to put this comment and this seems to fit

Not sure about dying, but LL doesn't seem to be stopping the migration of people leaving the grid...case in point, if you go into the forums or the marketplace, there are tons of ads on the top and side banners. And a number of these are for other RP "games"; WOW, DAZ 3D(which appears to be some av building thing) and something called Kaneva, which appears to be very much a mix of RL/facebook and SL.

I wonder if LL knows that people are going to look at these things and (maybe) think "Hey, SL is a pain in the butt lately..being all laggy..let me try this."

It may not be dying, but IMHO, LL may be administering the poison that may slowly be killing it.

 

[SLtesterL2]

I saw that too and also found it a bit odd...

[Ceka Cianci]

LL i think a lot of the long term residents are never gonna give you up *wink*

mah proofs

[Teagan Tobias]

---

Tex Monday wrote:

I was actually looking for a spot to put this comment and this seems to fit

Not sure about dying, but LL doesn't seem to be stopping the migration of people leaving the grid...case in point, if you go into the forums or the marketplace, there are tons of ads on the top and side banners. And a number of these are for other RP "games"; WOW, DAZ 3D(which appears to be some av building thing) and something called Kaneva, which appears to be very much a mix of RL/facebook and SL.

I wonder if LL knows that people are going to look at these things and (maybe) think "Hey, SL is a pain in the butt lately..being all laggy..let me try this."

It may not be dying, but IMHO, LL may be administering the poison that may slowly be killing it.

 

---

Well this kinda fits me to a T, I am looking at one of the games advertised on the Marketplace. Not sure how its going to work out, SL is the only online I have ever done. But one of the games looks interesting and my Son did not like it so maybe there is something there that I would like

Its a slow acting poison but my 4 to 8 hour SL day is now well less than an hour a day, just keeping the messages from piling up.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Tex Monday wrote:

I was actually looking for a spot to put this comment and this seems to fit

Not sure about dying, but LL doesn't seem to be stopping the migration of people leaving the grid...case in point, if you go into the forums or the marketplace, there are tons of ads on the top and side banners. And a number of these are for other RP "games"; WOW, DAZ 3D(which appears to be some av building thing) and something called Kaneva, which appears to be very much a mix of RL/facebook and SL.

I wonder if LL knows that people are going to look at these things and (maybe) think "Hey, SL is a pain in the butt lately..being all laggy..let me try this."

It may not be dying, but IMHO, LL may be administering the poison that may slowly be killing it.

 

---

 

They may attract some people to spend some time on them that they normally would in SL, but these things are all very different from SL.  Its like comparing apples to oranges,  They are both fruit but not the same thing at all.  In the end, what attracts people to SL is unique to SL IMO.

Kaneva is actually pretty old (started in 2004) with avatars and builds that look more primative that those in SL their membership is much smaller too.  Daz3D is a 3D graphic program that is not socially interactive. WOW is a game with fixed goals and content.

[Tex Monday]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

They may attract some people to spend some time on them that they normally would in SL, but these things are all very different from SL.  Its like comparing apples to oranges,  They are both fruit but not the same thing at all.  In the end, what attracts people to SL is unique to SL IMO.

Kaneva is actually pretty old (started in 2004) with avatars and builds that look more primative that those in SL their membership is much smaller too.  Daz3D is a 3D graphic program that is not socially interactive. WOW is a game with fixed goals and content.

---

 True..and I apologize for not knowing the differences in the types of games..but the average user may not either. A person may see these games and decide to try it..even though SL is unique, it can be "clunky" and laggy at times...and if these other games aren't having the same problems, may decide that this is a better option for them. I am not leaving SL any time soon..I have too much invested and too many friends inworld..but it's not to say that someone else might.

[Penny Patton]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

I don't want SL to change its fundamental properties. I love it the way it is, but it is NOT for everyone. It takes work to figure this place out. As I said in my previous post, people who will do that exist. About 50,000 of them are inworld at any given time. LL needs to find a way to show Second Life to that kind of people.

---

 

Who said anything about changing the fundamental properties of SL? All I'm saying is that LL could fix the interface and presentation of SL in ways that would make it easier for your average new user to pick up and remain interested in.

 

The appeal of virtual worlds is exceptionally broad, it's been a part of popular culture for decades. The main reason SL is "not for everyone" isn't because SL users are a special breed of smarter, more creative people, but that it is poorly presented and the tools are badly designed at best, utterly broken in the worst cases, making it exceptionally frustrating and, for many people, disappointing.

There's plenty of people who don't get into SL not because they're not patient and creative enough to figure it out, but because they see that SL cannot compare to their imagination. The things they would like to do simply are not possible in SL with its current problems, or are far more difficult to do than they are in other creative outlets.

[Penny Patton]

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Orca Flotta wrote:

SL is different. Or let me rephrase that: virtual worlds are different from xbox games. They are much more complex. They are WORLDS ffs! That's in the nature of every VW, no way around it. If you wanna view them in all detail splendour you need a serious computer, not an Xbox. And you need to know how to operate that machine. Logical, isn't it.

---

Actually, the reason SL requires such serious hardware, while not even looking as nice as an Xbox game, is because what people create in SL isn't made in an efficient manner. Videogames can crank out much better visuals on much less powerful hardware because while the models and effects look nicer, they're made in ways that use far fewer resources than your average SL avatar or object.

 

Fewer polygons, smaller texture maps, relying on simple effects rather than complex work-arounds like "material" maps to make an object look more complex rather than actually using polygons and modelling a more complex object.

 SL is fully capable of running much at much higher graphical settings on much less powerful hardware if people all made content more efficiently.

 Now, the common argument made is that SL can never look good because most people creating in SL are not professionals. The rebuttal is that Linden Lab could have done much, much more to encourage more efficient creations from the userbase.

I've got a medieval bar counter I bought that costs only 1 LI, but if I use too many my framerates crawl because each bar counter is loaded up with 8 unique textures, all of them 1024x1024. Several of these textures are mostly unused space. The same exact quality could have been achieved with a single 1024x1024 texture, using 1/8th the texture memory.  Including texture map use in Land Impact calculations would pretty much force the person who made this to weigh huge texture maps against how much LI their bar counter cost.

 But LL didn't do that, so people slap huge texture maps on everything. The result is people need beefy hardware to run SL at all, and even with a powerful computer SL still doesn't run well. 

[leon Bowler]

The sooner it dies the better.

[Orca Flotta]

Leon wrote:

I came, I saw, I hung around for bit, I said no, I got out

 

So? What are you still doing here?

 

Byebye ... and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[leon Bowler]

The demise of sl will be hard on you wont it, being one of the problems is just deserts don't you think.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Penny Patton wrote:

 

I've got a medieval bar counter I bought that costs only 1 LI, but if I use too many my framerates crawl because each bar counter is loaded up with 8 unique textures,

all of them 1024x1024. Several of these textures are mostly unused space. The same exact quality could have been achieved with a single 1024x1024 texture, using 1/8th the texture memory. 

 Including texture map use in Land Impact calculations would pretty much force the person who made this to weigh huge texture maps against how much LI their bar counter cost.

But LL didn't do that,

so people slap huge texture maps on everything

. The result is people need beefy hardware to run SL at all, and even with a powerful computer SL still doesn't run well. 

---

(Bolding mine)

So true.  That is one of the things that was presented years ago when I took an extensive class on Gimp - size textures only as large as needed for the item.  Our instructor said that many people use 1024x1024 textures for everything, usually because "so and so" uses that size so it must be the norm.  Apparently, according to her, some people even slap a 1024 on tiny jewels or small object details like ribbons, etc.

Since taking that class I typically use 256x256 textures for my store ad boards with no loss of detail or clarity.   Most of my builds use that size texture as well.  My Gimp instructor gave each of us in class three 8x8 textures - black, white, and transparent.  I've never used the first two thus far but I use the 8x8 alpha a lot.

Even though my PC chugs along at best, I can tell when I hit an area that is using huge textures.

 

[Orca Flotta]

I think it has to with the steep learning curve, the system requirements it asks for, and maybe the sketchy content for some users who are offended by it.

That's what you wrote in your OP. What's not to understand from that statement? I'm just saying it's wrong. If you find my comments rude please consider how your opinions hurt the majority of still avctive users. During the last few months you repeatedly posted very clueless and braindead stuff in the forums. That was offending and rude as well.

I guess it's really time we get a facepalm smiley here.

Then you go on with this stupidity:

Ever heard of the phrase "If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all"?

Of course I heard it, I hear it since years from idiots all over SL. That doesn't make the statement any better or helpful at all. The person who taught you such bs should be ashamed!

 

Ok, next brainfart:

Don't twist my words.

I never did, and your seriously wrong accusations are missing the point completely and are derailing the discussion.

 

Oha, now you're getting seriously serious. Where is the humour he was missing from my post? I wonder if I'll survive the following attack ...

I'm done with you.

You are done with me once you stop posting such crappola! Or leave SL. Or, LOL, boy do I have  a great wisdom for you: if you don't have to say anything nice about SL, then don't say it at all.

[Orca Flotta]

The demise of sl will be hard on you wont it, being one of the problems is just deserts don't you think.

... ??? Still here?

Can you please translate that sentence into simple english? I'll try to answer with what I could gather from that remark:

No, the demise of SL will just be sad, not hard in any way. It's just one of my many hobbies. I'll survive.

Sorry, I didn't understand that part about problem deserts. If you are pointing towards empty sims and less and less people in world ... I personally couldn't care less. Less people means less leg, less stupidity, less fuglyness, less griefers, less fashionistas, less n00bs, less con artists, less business people, less guys, less roleplayers.

So it's all good.

[leon Bowler]

LOL, tell me ocra, why are you here? why do you need relationships here, don't last long do they? why is that, lol.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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leon Bowler wrote:

The demise of sl will be hard on you wont it, being one of the problems is just deserts don't you think.

---

Deserts, like the sandy places with no water? I thought you spoke proper English... Desserts.. Two s's not one.

[Orca Flotta]

LOL, tell me ocra, why are you here? why do you need relationships here, don't last long do they? why is that, lol.

 

That's non of your business but since I'm such a nice girl I even forgive you for mucking up my name and answer you nevertheless:

1) I'm here for a diversity of reasons: sailing, biking, organizing a yacht club, having my own gallery and café

2) I never claimed to need relationships in SL

3) if I do they usually last for years

4) I have more important funny stuff to do in SL than caring about relationships. In RL I'm in a 25 year relationship, 15 of those married. So I really don't need that stuff in SL

5) right now I'm living the celibate lifestyle of a nun :smileyhappy:

6) two wrong assumptions, awkwardly disguised as questions, doesn't make your post appear any smarter

7) are you high or is such confuzzlement normal for you?

 

 

[Nalates Urriah]

Look through these stats and decide for yourself: SL Stats.